Unrebuilt Merchant Navy

[Fazy]

so do you think that is what is stoping hornby from doing a MN or is it that there just not a big enough call for them in original form? and i will have to have a close look at a P2 when i have a good photo of one.

[forester]

The MROL Wish List Poll is now running.

Don't forget to vote for all those Original/Unrebuilt/Air-smoothed MNs you know you really want!!

[Fazy]

oh lord that would look a lot like a tin isle at my supper markit

[mortehoe]

Perhaps LC&DR can ( no pun intended ) I remember reading that the Q1 class was also called Spam Cans, and to be perfectly honest out of the two it fits the Q1 better.

[LCDR]

Yes - Q1 = Austerities, Spam Cans, Coffee Pots or Charlies
MN = Flannel Jackets, Merchants
WC/BB = Light Pacifics

Spam Can was generically used for all of Bulleid's classes that did not possess conventional boiler cladding.

There

was quite a discrepancy between what enthusiasts called locomotives and what professional railwaymencalled them. Some of the latter were unprintable!!

A similar cross-over of nicknames happened on the Great Central. The Robinson 1902 8A / LNE Q4 0-8-0

were known as "Tinies", a reference to their exceptional size. When the 1911 8K / O4 2-8-0 appeared the name "Tiny" was frequently and erroneously, applied to them as well, and because the Q4s disappeared ten years or more before the O4s the name sort of stuck

with them instead amongst professional railwaymen. When I was working at Tinsley the old LNER/ER men still remembered the 'Tinies' but by process of elimination I was able to determine it was the 2-8-0s they were talking about.

[the ferret]

LC&DR said:

It would help if I could get the names right - for Elders Fyffes read Elder Dempster Lines, -- senility sets in! I also have two Clan Lines already, a Wrenn one and a modern Hornby one, but an air smoothed one would certainly

find a place in my collection.

Hi LC&DR. If you want the full list of MN, BB and WC names I have them to hand in a book. Elder Dempster was 35030 or 21C30 (The last one). Unfortunately I do not know how to post scanned pages or I could let you have

them all and Arthurs, Schools, & Nelsons as well. But at least if there are one or two in particular it is not a problem. 1 Channel Packet; 2 Union Castle; 3 Royal Mail; 4 Cunard White Star; 5 Canadian Pacific; 6 Peninsula and Orient Steam Navigation Co.;

7 Aberdeen Commonwealth; 8 Orient Line; 9 Shaw Savill; 10 Blue Star; 11 General Steam Navigation; 12 United States Lines; 13 Blue Funnel; 14 Nederland Line; 15 Rotterdam Lloyd;
16 Elders Fyffes (!); 17 Belgian Marine; 18 British India Line; 19 French Line

CGT; 20 Bibby Line; 21 New Zealand Line; 22 Holland-America Line; 23 Holland-Africa Line; 24 East Asiatic Company; 25 Brocklebank Line; 26 Lamport & Holt Line; 27 Port Line; 28 Clan Line; 29 Ellerman Lines. There you are, you have the lot!! There's just one

correction! for No.6 it is "Peninsula and Orient S.N. Co." that is actually on the nameplate. Oh, Mr. Administrator, Sir, Why can't L.C.& D.R. swap e-mails with an Innocent Ferret? We really do have so much in common especially where railways are concerned!!

[LCDR]

Dear Mr. Ferret,

Thank you for the list. If you like Merchant Navy's I can recommend a useful book "Locomotives in Detail No 1 Bulleid 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class" by R. J. Harvey (pub Ian Allan). This gentleman is also the Notebook Editor for the

Southern Railways Group. I have been a member of this group myself for many years and I belong to the SEmG which is Southern Railway only too.

I have five OO Merchant Navy class models,(Rebuilt) Wrenn 35028 Clan Line, Hornby 35028 Clan Line, 35020 Bibby

Line and 35015 Rotterdam Lloyd (actually 35012 renamed and renumbered), and (Air Smoothed) 35030 Elder Dempster Line (Golden Arrow Kit on Hornby mechanism). I have a second 35020 (loco only) which has donated parts to the kit but also I have a spare mechanism

too. What is left of 35020 may be used to create a 'scrapyard' diorama.

In my spotting days I saw every Merchant Navy and all but five Light Pacifics, originally it was seven I wanted but that included 34007 and 34070 which I have since seen in preservation.

I spent a large number of Summer Saturdays on Clapham Junction. I only missed 34065 Hurricane, 34075 264 Squadron, 34106 Lydford, 34107 Blandford Forum, and 34110 66 Squadron. 35013 Blue Funnel was the last of the MNs I 'copped'.

My favourite SR class

that is being made as an OO model at present is the 4-4-0 class V Schools and I have quite a lot of these, and intend to get more! I am pleased it will be added to the Railroad Range this year , I hope Hornby will do the same with it as they have done with

the Patriot and bring it out in BR livery too. I am awaiting the SECR 'C' from the other manufacturer as this will overtake the Schools in my affections when it comes out.

Best wishes!

[the ferret]

LC&DR said:

Affirmative.

I am SRG no. 1824. I am sure that if I tell him to, Chris Thomas will tell you who I am and give you my e-mail! Then I can give you the full list of names for all classes of S.R. express passenger locomotive.

[LCDR]

the ferret said:

LC&DR said:

Affirmative. I am SRG no. 1824. I am sure that if I tell him to, Chris Thomas will tell you who I am and give you my e-mail! Then I can give you the full list of names for all classes of S.R. express passenger

locomotive.

Dear Mr. Ferret, you are extremely kind to offer, thank you very much, but really you do not need to send me that information because I have had it myself for a very long time. I started studying the Southern Region / Railway in

1964 when I started work on the Southern Region of BR. I already had all the usual Ian Allan spotters books going back to 1957 but when I started work I had money to start building my library, and pursuing my hobby. Working on the railway also gave me access

to cheap travel so I got about a lot too. As a result I have a collection of over 5,000 books, mainly about the railway! And a very understanding wife!

As you might expect most of my interest relates to the Southern.

I am 1034.

[the ferret]

LC&DR said:

Dear Mr. Ferret,

Thank you for the list. If you like Merchant Navy's I can recommend a useful book "Locomotives in Detail No 1 Bulleid 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class" by R. J. Harvey (pub Ian Allan). This gentleman is also the

Notebook Editor for the Southern Railways Group. I have been a member of this group myself for many years and I belong to the SEmG which is Southern Railway only too.

I have five OO Merchant Navy class models,(Rebuilt) Wrenn 35028 Clan Line, Hornby

35028 Clan Line, 35020 Bibby Line and 35015 Rotterdam Lloyd (actually 35012 renamed and renumbered), and (Air Smoothed) 35030 Elder Dempster Line (Golden Arrow Kit on Hornby mechanism). I have a second 35020 (loco only) which has donated parts to the kit but

also I have a spare mechanism too. What is left of 35020 may be used to create a 'scrapyard' diorama.

In my spotting days I saw every Merchant Navy and all but five Light Pacifics, originally it was seven I wanted but that included 34007 and 34070

which I have since seen in preservation. I spent a large number of Summer Saturdays on Clapham Junction. I only missed 34065 Hurricane, 34075 264 Squadron, 34106 Lydford, 34107 Blandford Forum, and 34110 66 Squadron. 35013 Blue Funnel was the last of the MNs

I 'copped'.

My favourite SR class that is being made as an OO model at present is the 4-4-0 class V Schools and I have quite a lot of these, and intend to get more! I am pleased it will be added to the Railroad Range this year , I hope Hornby will do

the same with it as they have done with the Patriot and bring it out in BR livery too. I am awaiting the SECR 'C' from the other manufacturer as this will overtake the Schools in my affections when it comes out.

Best wishes!

[the ferret]

Dear LC&DR Chris Thomas has agreed to give you my e-mail if you would like to contact him.(SRG1824). I am sure that there is so much information held by us both as regards the Southern Railway and we could both benefit by swapping it. The Ferret.

[the ferret]

Hi LC&DR there was a British Railways Schools (Hornby) for sale in my local Model Shop for only £69. It was not of the older "Top Link" generation like my own Malachite "Radley" but was of a far newer format. Do you want me to enquire on your behalf?

[LCDR]

the ferret said:

Hi LC&DR there was a British Railways Schools (Hornby) for sale in my local Model Shop for only £69. It was not of the older "Top Link" generation like my own Malachite "Radley" but was of a far newer format. Do you want

me to enquire on your behalf?

Thank you. I have most of the Hornby versions in BR liveries at present (at least I think so) my fleet contains the following but I might be interested in any I haven't already got especially at £69, the stock list

includes -

30901 Winchester Hornby Second series (super detail)
30902 Wellington Hornby First series (Tender drive)
30907 Dulwich Kit built (Motorised Airfix kit)
30909 St. Pauls Hornby Second
30911 Dover Hornby First
30912 Downside

Hornby First
(30912) (Downside) Hornby First To be renumbered
30915 Brighton Hornby Second
925 Cheltenham Hornby First
30927 Clifton Hornby First
30928 Stowe Hornby First
30931 Kings Wimbledon Kit built
30932 Blundell's Hornby Second


30934 St Lawrence Hornby Second
30939 Sevenoaks Kit built
30938 St. Olave's Kit built

[Fazy]

i thought i would chip in hear has i have been looking on the web and found out some thing which might intrest thoughs of you who like the southen and the one who like the Britannia class locos i would think that most of you would know of no's 70004/14

and for a time 70019

but i did not now that No more Britannias were allocated to the Southern, although following the Crewkerne accident, which resulted in the temporary withdrawal of all MN.
some where moved in from the westen aira loco no's 70017/23/24/28/29/30/34

i would think this would give modelers lacenss to run these on the lay out if you wuold wish

dose any one know why the MN where temporary withdrawn at this time?

[the ferret]

LC&DR said:

Thank you. I have most of the Hornby versions in BR liveries at present (at least I think so) my fleet contains the following but I might be interested in any I haven't already got especially at £69, the stock list includes -

30901

Winchester Hornby Second series (super detail)
30902 Wellington Hornby First series (Tender drive)
30907 Dulwich Kit built (Motorised Airfix kit)
30909 St. Pauls Hornby Second
30911 Dover Hornby First
30912 Downside Hornby First
(30912)

(Downside) Hornby First To be renumbered
30915 Brighton Hornby Second
925 Cheltenham Hornby First
30927 Clifton Hornby First
30928 Stowe Hornby First
30931 Kings Wimbledon Kit built
30932 Blundell's Hornby Second
30934 St Lawrence

Hornby Second
30939 Sevenoaks Kit built
30938 St. Olave's Kit built

Hi LC&DR I am impressed! Do you have the entire Southern Railway in OO?!! You and I may well be of around the same age. I have told you of how when I was very small

I came face to face with a brand new 21C1 on Waterloo Station. Your mention of Clapham Junction has also twanged a chord of memory. It was August 1940. We were going from home in Staines to see my grandparents who lived on the southern boundary of what is

now Gatwick Airport. At Staines (SR) Stn we boarded an ex Weybridge/Windsor 2-NOL and went as far as Richmond. where we changed to what I now believe to be an ex Strawberry Hill train. This took us to Clapham Junction. Here we had to cross an interminably

long footbridge. My mother had a heavy suitcase and could not carry me. I was a weak and sickly child but can vividly remember just how incredibly long that footbridge was. At the very farthest end we went down that last flight of steps on to the platform

where another electric train took us to Redhill in Surrey. We finished the journey on a green no. 405 London Transport bus (STL class) and I have an EFE model of that bus, correct destinations for Crawley etc. The Schools Class locos' names are so evocative.

I was born at Datchet right next to Eton College and remember Riverside station. I was last there in about 1996. My late wife's boss was ex-Winchester, I have attended a cricket match at Wellington, Downside is less than five miles from me as I write this,

while Cheltenham is not so far. In the fifties I trained as a designer under Sir Frederick Handley Page, the great aviation pioneer. After The Thatcher Administration destroyed all our industries I became a coach driver. That is how I came to visit Wellington

and Cheltenham!! Not out of any academic reason I assure you!

[forester]

>>In the fifties I trained as a designer under Sir Frederick Handley Page, the great aviation pioneer. After The Thatcher Administration destroyed all our industries I became a coach driver.<<

Wow! There's a coincidence. I was offered a job by the

Handley Page design department at the end of the Sixties but I turned it down. Narrow escape. Handley Page went bust a year or so later in 1970.
But it wasn't Margaret Thatcher who was responsible. She wasn't even a shadow minister at the time. No, it

was the Other Lot - who also cancelled TSR2 and almost everything else worthwhile in British aviation.

Back on topic:
The Schools are relatively easy to rename, helped by the small number panel - provided you remember which ones got the Lemaitre

chimneys and the low windows, and which ones were never given BR green, so I have quite a number (not as many as LC&DR, but all super-detail). Brightons and Blundells often come up quite cheap on *bay, just asking for a rename.

I've a lot of renamed

rebuilt Merchants too, but only two Millholme Original/Unrebuilt MNs both of which need a lot of work including complete repaints, which I'm not confident about. If I start on them I can guarantee someone will announce an RTR version.
But I've been saying

that for several years now......

[LCDR]

My very first Schools was an unmotored Kitmaster 'Harrow' which I painted BR Green in error. That was 1960 and I earnestly expected it to get BR Green. It was one of the first two to be withdrawn.

I certainly wanted a Merchant Navy in original

air smoothed form, and finally built a Golden Arrow Resin kit last year and mounted it on a Hornby rebuilt version mrechanism with BoB cylinders and con rods. It look fine in blue with Caledonian style lining. I need a couple of green ones but I am prepared

to wait.

[forester]

What do you think of the Golden Arrow kit? Do they do different bodies for the first series MNs?

[Fazy]

i think that the (AS built MN) WILL be in OO in the next 2 years. becuse if GF are doing one in N scale planed for the next 18 mothes, then B'mann will only follow it in OO so this leads to the qusetion WHO's going to get there frist!!!

[southern]

It is possible that Hornby may be about to loose out in 100% sales for an as built Merchant Navy, now thats it rival has announced the Class in N scale. Some well respected annual wishlists have always featured this Loco as high on both Modellers and collectors

"wants" lists. It also goes without saying, that many of us who contribute to this Forum have pointed out that Hornby has all, but two items, Loco & Tender bodies, to market this, the only remaining 8P not represented in the model market?
Yet their competition,

have it seems, seen fit to invest (and it must have been significant) in a completely new set of tooling to be able to make the announcement! Looking at the trend of the way Hornby`s closest rival develops its range, the 4CEP is a classic, in that following

on from the OO scale model a duplicate in N scale example appeared. Theres nothing to say the REVERSE of this is about to happen in the case of the Merchant Navy? SIMON please take note!!!!!!

[Fazy]

the reverse would be the 101 as i under stand the N 101 is already and know the OO to be done

[LCDR]

forester said:

What do you think of the Golden Arrow kit? Do they do different bodies for the first series MNs?

Mine went together fairly easily and looks OK, not too much detail, but then you can add this if you want to. The

moulding is clean, and doesn't need too much tidying up, but as with all resin kits there will be variations.

Yes they do the three main shapes to cover the three series, but I was building the third type, and haven't seen the others.

[forester]

I must say I'm looking forward to the Baccy N gauge Original Merchant Navy.
I will certainly get one for display and it may be enough to make me change scale completely. There are so many really detailed N gauge models out there nowadays.

[LCDR]

forester said:

I must say I'm looking forward to the Baccy N gauge Original Merchant Navy.
I will certainly get one for display and it may be enough to make me change scale completely. There are so many really detailed N gauge models

out there nowadays.

I did dabble with N many years ago when my eyesight was better. I still have two original GF 'Spitfire' locos somewhere, that haven't run for 30 odd years! There is certainly a better selection nowadays, but I would need

an 'Optivisor' to get any satisfaction from it. In fact I am being driven more and more to Gauge 'O'. You may have noticed too that there will be some Bulleid carriages to go with it , so the Southern prospects are looking up in N too. I have to confess I

was severely tempted by the 4Cep in N now having 3 in OO!

[southern]

The Wishlist Poll for 2012/2013 is now available as PDF, on Pat Hammond`s Mremag, for those interested to see how the As built Merchant Navy has scored.
Interestingly it does not feature in the N gauge lists for the most wanted SR Locomotives! and

as such, although more than very welcome, seems an odd choice for Bachmann to have invested in? However the Loco, has been ranked as 7th in the 00 List. With 193 votes to its credit. The results of the Poll are apparently made available to the manufacturers.

Should Simon, for some reason not read our Forum, lets hope the Poll result galvanizes Hornby into a commitment to release this the last of the 8Ps, sooner rather than later! At the moment I am left wishing I had an interest in N rather than 00 scale.