Turbomotive.

[Kim-344602]

This thread appears to be generating confusion due to unrelated questions & answers being misinterpreted.

@kim - You appear to be not suggesting that either of the currently (being) produced Turbomotive models is actually wrong - only that you would like Hornby to produce (the/a) different guise that appeared between the current models. Is this correct?

As others have stated, Hornby will likely have deliberately chosen which versions to produce first, & therefore others may (or may not) appear in the range in the future.

Secondly @kim - You have however stated that there are faults with the Princess Royal models (in addition to already mentioned tender) would you care to elaborate these faults?

 

 

To answer the first point, yes that is correct. Turbomotive ran with a domeless boiler and short reverse turbine for about 6 weeks including the running in after being built. That was up till Aug 35 when the larger reverse turbine was fitted and the domed boiler shortly after.

As to your second point, I can't recall of of them. I was looking for one to run just pre-war and found it difficult to find one. The coal pusher on the tender is the most glaring error. It only ran with 6206 apart from one very short period when she was in the works and it was paired with 6207. 6212 had a midland style cleated smokebox door which was rather ugly which was not changed until the wartime period. Also 5 of them had roller bearings on the rear pony with a domed cover and not the flat cover as depicted by Hornby . 6205, like the others initially ran with 9 ton tenders and there was only a very brief period after getting the 10 ton tender before the valve gear was modified.

For such a small class, there were a large number of variations. More so during the LMS period.

[ColinB]

Why are you so concerned about the coal pusher. With the standard coal load Hornby supplies you cannot see it and it is only on the latest models. I notice it as I add real coal and I like to see it. If you think it is wrong either use the standard coal load, or fill it completely with coal then you don't see it. If it really bothers you that much buy a tender from an earlier version, the coal hopper takes real coal but there is no detail. I think they use the same tender for all their Coronations although the early ones didn't have a ladder on the back. I think the coal pusher came in quite recently with the City of Salford. The Princess Royals have the same arrangement except the early ones had a moulded coal load they also don't have the ladder on the back.

[Fazy]

The coal pusher is more than just the bit inside. If you look at the tender hoper back plate Hornby are adding a small box and some pipe work when it’s not necessary.

[Kim-344602]

Why are you so concerned about the coal pusher. With the standard coal load Hornby supplies you cannot see it and it is only on the latest models. I notice it as I add real coal and I like to see it. If you think it is wrong either use the standard coal load, or fill it completely with coal then you don't see it. If it really bothers you that much buy a tender from an earlier version, the coal hopper takes real coal but there is no detail. I think they use the same tender for all their Coronations although the early ones didn't have a ladder on the back. I think the coal pusher came in quite recently with the City of Salford. The Princess Royals have the same arrangement except the early ones had a moulded coal load they also don't have the ladder on the back.

 

 

The operating mech for the coal pusher is mounted behind bulkhead and so visible with a full coal load. ;)

Hornby have done the tender without it so why not again?

As to the Coronations, there are prototypically 5 versions for a class of 38 locos. All of them had the coal pusher. In most cases Hornby have matched them correctly.

[atom3624]

There's an initial review - despite not yet 'officially released' until 4th October I believe.

Hornby have - finally - added a few features. Directional lighting a little unsubtle, but a nice addition. I like them, 'though far too bright for 'period lights', but would be correct if she were preserved / recreated and running today with 'Tornado-style' modern led lighting.

I've had one on pre-order with a model shop, and hopefully will see her within a week - LMS coaches are waiting on the layout in readiness!

Al.

[Kim-344602]

There's an initial review - despite not yet 'officially released' until 4th October I believe.

Hornby have - finally - added a few features. Directional lighting a little unsubtle, but a nice addition. I like them, 'though far too bright for 'period lights', but would be correct if she were preserved / recreated and running today with 'Tornado-style' modern led lighting.

I've had one on pre-order with a model shop, and hopefully will see her within a week - LMS coaches are waiting on the layout in readiness!

Al.

 

 

Interesting video. I'd like to see one in the flesh before I make too many comments. It may just be the video but the numbering and lettering seem to be the same shade as the lining.

Still "upsets" my LMS mentality to see it running with the wrong period coaches though. ;)

[atom3624]

I thought the numbering and lettering always were the same as the lining.

I've seen so many variations, admittedly.

I remember Bressingham in the 70's, which several don't seem to hold in high regard for authenticity lettering and lining both 6100 Royal Scot and 6233 Duchess of Sutherland with gold leaf, which despite being micron-thick can't have been cheap!

Al.

[Kim-344602]

I thought the numbering and lettering always were the same as the lining.

I've seen so many variations, admittedly.

I remember Bressingham in the 70's, which several don't seem to hold in high regard for authenticity lettering and lining both 6100 Royal Scot and 6233 Duchess of Sutherland with gold leaf, which despite being micron-thick can't have been cheap!

Al.

 

 

The 1928 livery didn't really settle down until 1930 and even then Crewe did their own thing with mainly ex LNWR locos.

However the specification for the 1928 livery was for "yellow" lining. At some stage between 1928 and before 1935 (Neither the Crewe or Derby records give the exact date, the yellow was changed from the pale shade of the 1923 livery to a darker but brighter chrome yellow hue. Now obviously, the lining was always painted on.

Initially, the lettering and numbering was painted on but by June 29, the new gilt or gold transfers were available. There were black shaded ones for red engine and red shaded for lined black engines. Plain black engines used black shaded ones which gave the appearance of being unshaded. In 1936 (after the period of Turbo in this condition) the numbering and lettering was changed briefly to a sans serif block style which was short lived. In 1937, they reverted to the scroll pattern but, probably due to the high cost of gilt transfers the yellow lettering and numbering. This was red shaded on both red and lined black engines and unshaded on plain black.

The only "exception" to this was the 5 unstreamlined Coronations which had special lining and gilt numbering/lettering.

So when built Turbomotive had "gilt" numbering and lettering which would have been shaded black and would not have had the yellow transfers until after the domed boiler when they would have been red shaded.

So Bressingham were accurate as far as Sutherland was concerned but the only Scot to get LMS red livery was British Legion. ;)

[atom3624]

Very thorough and informative, thank you.

Disappointing for Scottie - I much prefer 6100 in LMS C.L., correct or not!

She's been very impressive on the preservation specials, but that should be expected - they were powerful, rated at 1,700 hp on one occasion?

Back to Turbomotive, if they can do the domed boiler for the BR version, this may possibly appear in a later iteration I suppose.

I'll be quite happy to order and receive mine, in part ignorance, with my 8 Stanier coaches as well!! (Not getting any more ... !!)

With those lamps, I'll say Pete Waterman had a replica made, with high intensity led's!!

Al.

[Kim-344602]

Very thorough and informative, thank you.

Disappointing for Scottie - I much prefer 6100 in LMS C.L., correct or not!

She's been very impressive on the preservation specials, but that should be expected - they were powerful, rated at 1,700 hp on one occasion?

Back to Turbomotive, if they can do the domed boiler for the BR version, this may possibly appear in a later iteration I suppose.

I'll be quite happy to order and receive mine, in part ignorance, with my 8 Stanier coaches as well!! (Not getting any more ... !!)

With those lamps, I'll say Pete Waterman had a replica made, with high intensity led's!!

Al.

 

 

Well you could add the odd Gresley teak coach to make it prototypical. Though perhaps not on the Liverpool expresses Turbomotive most usually ran. ;)

[What About The Bee]

Hello Kim

Just a short note to you.

When the enthusiast wishes to discuss the shade of yellow used in lining vs the year, it is extraordinarily clear the enthusiast knows his stuff.

While Turbomotive is not my era, your enthusiasm is infectious. Tip of the hat!

Bee

[Kim-344602]

Hello Kim

Just a short note to you.

When the enthusiast wishes to discuss the shade of yellow used in lining vs the year, it is extraordinarily clear the enthusiast knows his stuff.

While Turbomotive is not my era, your enthusiasm is infectious. Tip of the hat!

Bee

 

 

Comes from a library full of books and about 40 years research. lol

[atom3624]

Well I've just become a 'proud owner' of a flawed LMS Turbomotive - looks great and has been a locomotive I've wanted since a teenager 50 years ago!

Should receive her within the next 2 days' time.

Next is to smuggle in past SWMBO!!

Al.

[ColinB]

Ok it may be my layout but I have the same derailing issues with the front bogie. So if anyone else has the same problem, as with virtually all the latest Hornby steam locos I have bought, the shoulder bolt holding on the front bogie the distance up to the shoulder needs to be about 1 mm longer. Fortunately I had one from my spare parts (probably off an A1) which works perfectly. I think when I had issues with the Members Club Coronation I had the same issue and fixed it the same. So to anyone in the know has Hornby changed its bolt Supplier, all my earlier Duchess/ Princess Royal locos don't have the issue.

[atom3624]

Typical!!

I suppose 2 other options are possible:

1. Unscrew a little and hold with blue threadlock.
2. File the mounting plate thinner.

Al.

[ColinB]

As I said it may be just my track, in which case you need not worry. I was just telling you the fix, if it is an issue. There is a third option, bend the bogie holding bracket just a little downwards. With mine, my track dips down going into the tunnel and then a bend inside the tunnel, there is not enough travel on the front bogie so it hangs in free air, so when it gets back to level track the bogie moves up but is no longer following the track. Funny the P2 derailed in a completely different place.

[atom3624]

Sam's Trains video for anyone interested:

Generally good and I quite like his reviews - 'spade is a spade'.

Al.

[Kim-344602]

Sam's Trains video for anyone interested:

Generally good and I quite like his reviews - 'spade is a spade'.

Al.

 

 

Thanks for the link. As with so many reviews, it does seem to concentrate solely on the construction and performance of the model itself rather than accuracy.

One thing I would disagree with the review is possibly the lights. I think the tender light and smokebox light are probably far more prototypical than the "hi intensity" buffer beams ones.

And for me, the yellow lettering and lining really do change the appearance from a model with the correct gold lettering and numbering.