Width of rolling stock

[Sammy-370865]

I have recently completed a 2 rail elevated extension to my layout. The scale of my layout is 00. Sadly when 2 locomotives meet each other on the bends the rolling stock wagons jam against each other. Sadly I’m unable to make the track radius bends wider.

Could someone please inform me if I was to buy H0 rolling stock wagon’s would they pass each other. Q. Are H0 rolling stock/wagons thinner than H0 wagons.

[81F]

Hi Sammy

Unfortunately the answer is not that straight forward.

Although an HO gauge wagon or locomotive will be smaller than its 00 equivalent, HO gauge models are generally of Continental or American prototypes which were/are much bigger in real life than British rolling stock. As a result, when scaled down to their respective scales, you will find most HO gauge models just as wide as OO ones.

Having said that I do have a an old LIMA HO gauge Class 33 which is around 1/8 smaller all round than their 00 gauge Class 33, but only a handful of companies ever made British outline models so your choice of stock will be limited.

[threelink]

Tri did produce some rolling stock at an odd scale about 3.8 mm to the foot. It turns up occasionally second hand. I do not know whether this helps. Although neither fish nor fowl it looks OK with 00 stock if run in rakes of the same but if mixed with 00 stock in the same rake it looks a bit under sized. I do hope that you find solution to the problem

[threelink]

Sorry I meant Trix

Mod note - use the three dots context menu if you need to amend your post.

[What About The Bee]

Hello Sammy

I think what you are saying is that you have left insufficient clearance to permit locomotives and cars to pass each other on a curve.

There are a few solutions to this.

You can widen the clearance between tracks on the turn. You can make the turn single line working. You can switch to shorter locomotives and rolling stock, in OO, such that the swept envelope is smaller. You could start the turn slightly earlier on the inside line, thus separating the two.

While switching to HO may provide some relief, longer HO stock will still sweep a larger envelope.

The simplest solution, in my view, is to make the turn a restricted area. Reduced speed, single line working. Treat it like a real railway.

Bee

[Rana Temporia]

Your only real sources of British HO would be the old Lima and Playcraft ranges which are both available fairly cheaply secondhand. Lima did a class 33 as already mentioned plus an LMS 3F. There was a range of scale length MK1 coaches, wagons and a brake van plus some continental re-liveries wagons. Lima used both a massive version of the Hornby coupling which looked ridiculous on an HO model plus the Continental type so compatibility can be difficult.

Playcraft produced a model of the class 21/29 diesel and a Scottish region diesel shunter alongside some of the JOuef Continental range. They also produced a range of short Mk1 coaches which seem to be based on the tri-ang shortie versions, some UK wagons and a brake van and lots of re-liveried Continental wagons. Playcraft used a Lanal type coupling similar to the Tri-ang one, then the PECO type and finally the continental type.

It sounds like you will only be able to use short wagons, coaches and locos if you need them to pass. The HO trains may make a difference but only if you stick to the shorter ones. They will also look different to the rest of your stock.

[ntpntpntp]

@Rana Rivarossi made a Royal Scot and coaches in HO, and I think for a while Fleischmann offered a Warship diesel using their V200 chassis.

@sammy to be honest I think the proper solution is to fix the root cause of the problem and re-lay your curves with wider clearance, testing with your longest items of rolling stock. Did you not use two consecutive radii of curves - they should be designed to sit at appropriate clearance?

Anything else is just skirting around the problem and ultimately a disappointment. If you really cannot accommodate properly spaced curves then it's a case of applying running restrictions as others have suggested.

[Barry-350851]

What kind of stock are you running Sammy and what radius curves are you using?

[Sammy-370865]

Thank you to everyone who have taken time to reply to my clashing wagons problem. The information and suggestions are appreciated. The most obvious problem has been caused by my lack of woodworking skills and my knowledge of model railways. I only took up the hobby a few years ago due to covid. My layout is 28ft x 10ft . The whole circumference of the loft. I had no idea as to radius of curves or DCC when the project was started. It was a case of laying a base and throw down some track and watching a flying Scotsman going around. I have made lots and lots of mistakes over the past few years.(not doubt many more) I wish I would have taken up the hobby a few more years ago. Thank you all for your help.

Sammy

 

[What About The Bee]

Sammy

If it is any consolation to you, the error you encountered happens in the real world too.

Recently, an official signed off on new railcars that would not fit through a tunnel on their system. https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2023/02/spain-spends-258m-in-trains-that-dont-fit-through-its-tunnels/

I worked at a facility that manufactures locomotives. My personal friend was a mechanical engineer who specified the design of those locomotives. He related to me that one time, after the design had been signed off by the client (Egypt as I recall), he noticed that the structure gauge would be violated. After the kerfuffle of telling a foreign official that he just made a huge financial and technical error, the problem was quietly fixed. So not as bad as the Spanish one.

I agree with NTPNTPNTP. Fix the layout. You cannot really change locomotive design as we did. But you can fix the track.

Bee

[Rallymatt]

Bee, a very interesting read. Seems a huge oversight by all those involved as while Spain has in places an excellent railway network is famous for have a range of gauges! Std gauge, IIRC, was only adopted to facilitate new high speed service connectivity across Europe and in many places their broader gauge ruled, hence the historical issues at Canfranc, and then the narrow gauges in other parts of country to deal with local issues.

Makes our layout mis-engineering seem quite trivial 🤣

[ellocoloco]

To add to Spain's gauges - although veering away from the original topic, sorry Sammy, The Langreo mineral line in the north of Spain was standard gauge as are several of the metro systems inc most of Barcelona, Granada, Malaga and some of Madrid which apparently also has 1445mm gauge. The line down the east coast is also being dual gauged at the moment but I'll have to read more as to how much is being done.

[Barry-350851]

Hi Sammy,

You have quite a generous space there and should have been able to use some wider radius curves.

Going to basics you have sectional track from Hornby (and others) in 1st to 4th radius.

Hopefully below is a link to Hornby's support pages with their geometry :

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/article_attachments/10406061442332

Those sectional track pieces are designed to sit 67mm apart so that rolling stock doesn't hit. You could still have an issue with longer modern coaches (eg. full length Mk3 or 4s) if you use 1st and 2nd radius, the space you have though I would definitely say stay away from 1st radius at all costs, not all rolling stock is designed to negotiate it (you might see on a loco box "minimum curve radius 438mm" which is 2nd radius).

As you get to shallower curves, the required separation between the track gets less. So by the time you get to 32"/914mm radius you only need 51mm between the tracks. You need to use flexible track (like Hornby r621, r8090 or similar) to make those for yourself. There is an extra skill to learn when using flexible track though so many stick with sectional track.

As others have said, the solution is either to reconfigure to a single track section or to re-make your track layout to have a greater separation or gentler curves.

We all make mistakes in planning or building our railways, even the experienced modellers.