BobStan Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hi all I'm new here Nice to meet you all Well I'm setting out my first set in 40 years to look forward to my retirement Things have come a long way since I was a Boy Dcc and all but it's facinatinhg Could anyone help me with sidings please before i wire them up I have Elite and planning a rather large layout. I intend to have 4 Sidings behind the scenery to lay up 8 locos and rolling stock. Each siding will be around 4 meters long As I did not want these sleeping locos to rob amperage I intended to isolate them Is this a good idea ? And does anyone know if Elite is capable of on off switching of the isolators ? Any help would be appreciated Thanks Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It's normal to have all track live with DCC, locos which aren't actually moving only consume a tiny amount of power (maybe 10mA) so isolating sidings isn't usually used. However there are a few cases where it can be handy to have an isolated section of track. One use would be for the stabling of illuminated rolling stock such as pullman carriages which take quite a bit more power than an idle loco. If you are using Hornby points you will find that these are self isolating. Just set the point the "wrong" way and the siding(s) will be isolated. This self isolating feature is normally unwanted for DCC and to overcome it Hornby sell R8232 point clips https://www.hornby.com/shop/track/track-accessories/r8232-hornby-digital-electric-point-clips/ If you don't want to use the point clips you can just add another track feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thanks Rog I will look at the link Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hi Bob You need to divorce yourself from 'dc thinking' where DCC is concerned. Every section of track ideally needs to be DCC live all the time. I carried out some simple current measurement test a year or so ago and found that the following figures were obtained. It should be noted that each locos tested quiescent current differed with the make of decoder fitted. But basically..... DCC loco stationary with no functions operated 15 to 25milliamp. DCC loco stationary with front and rear lights On (4 in all) 35 to 40ma DCC loco with sounds On and at tick over but stationary 70 to 80ma DCC loco with both sound and lights On (4 in all) but stationary 85 to 90ma. The readings were taking using a calibrated Fluke True reading multimeter. Your Elite can supply 3.0Amp to track, so 20 no sounds On and no lights On locos stationary would only consume some 300 to 500millamp maximum and perhaps even less! That still leaves you with at least 2.5Amps (2500ma) to run all the locos. Which is ample for most peoples ability to run a DCC layout without having crashes occur etc. Hope this is of some help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Very interesting, Flash. I must have about 20 sound locos standing on my layout at the same time, run up to 4 together, and have no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 very interesting to see some measured data from Flashbang. I would have guessed a bit lower but have not done any measurements. Graskie apart from the obvious question of how you diverted funds for 20 sound locos..... it is interesting to do the sums. 20 stationary sound locos = 1.8A. This leaves 1.2A for your 4 running locos or 300mA each. If we assume that a running loco still consumes 90mA for sound/lights then this leaves only 210 for the motor. if the 4 running locos are some of the 20 then you are back to 300mA per motor. This sounds a little tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hi Please remember I found that the quiescent current flow varied decoder to decoder and decoder make to make. I doubt if anyone would have 20 sound locos all stationary and all with their sounds On and ticking over (Diesel sound), as the cacophony of noise would be unbearable! Perhaps two or three ticking over and a couple running with sound, otherwise its 'where are the ear defenders'? eh, what did you say!. :-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thank you for your valuable assistance flashbang I feel more comfy now with what I need to achieve Cheers Bob Flashbang said: Hi Bob You need to divorce yourself from 'dc thinking' where DCC is concerned. Every section of track ideally needs to be DCC live all the time. I carried out some simple current measurement test a year or so ago and found that the following figures were obtained. It should be noted that each locos tested quiescent current differed with the make of decoder fitted. But basically..... DCC loco stationary with no functions operated 15 to 25milliamp. DCC loco stationary with front and rear lights On (4 in all) 35 to 40ma DCC loco with sounds On and at tick over but stationary 70 to 80ma DCC loco with both sound and lights On (4 in all) but stationary 85 to 90ma. The readings were taking using a calibrated Fluke True reading multimeter. Your Elite can supply 3.0Amp to track, so 20 no sounds On and no lights On locos stationary would only consume some 300 to 500millamp maximum and perhaps even less! That still leaves you with at least 2.5Amps (2500ma) to run all the locos. Which is ample for most peoples ability to run a DCC layout without having crashes occur etc. Hope this is of some help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Flashbang said: Hi Please remember I found that the quiescent current flow varied decoder to decoder and decoder make to make. I doubt if anyone would have 20 sound locos all stationary and all with their sounds On and ticking over (Diesel sound), as the cacophony of noise would be unbearable! Perhaps two or three ticking over and a couple running with sound, otherwise its 'where are the ear defenders'? eh, what did you say!. :-0I've never actually tried to have that number with sound switched on at the same time, but I might just try it. You can lower the volumes, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Can I just add to this listing, DCC sound and lighting can be turned off, as required, one of the advantages of DCC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 Good Point Blackbird So would my Pullman lighted coaches need chipping to turn off the lights when not in use ? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Hi Any carriage fitted with internal lighting, like the Hornby Pullman carriages, will always have their lights On when placed on DCC powered track. There is no provision for 'plug and play' decoder fitting via a suitable (8 or 21pin) NEM socket. They are not DCC Ready in that sense. You would need to a) Find a suitable place for each carriage to have a decoder fitted and b) hard wire the decoder into the internal lighting circuits wiring. You can if you use fine wire link several carriages together and then use one decoder to control all lighting, the down side is the need to wire carriage to carriage. The other alternative is to have a long enough siding to stable the carriages in which has the entrance point still as self isolating for that direction. But IMO this isn't really necessary as I never turn off my carriage lights even when they are stabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Flashbang said: Hi Any carriage fitted with internal lighting, like the Hornby Pullman carriages, will always have their lights On when placed on DCC powered track. There is no provision for 'plug and play' decoder fitting via a suitable (8 or 21pin) NEM socket. They are not DCC Ready in that sense. You would need to a) Find a suitable place for each carriage to have a decoder fitted and b) hard wire the decoder into the internal lighting circuits wiring. You can if you use fine wire link several carriages together and then use one decoder to control all lighting, the down side is the need to wire carriage to carriage. The other alternative is to have a long enough siding to stable the carriages in which has the entrance point still as self isolating for that direction. But IMO this isn't really necessary as I never turn off my carriage lights even when they are stabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Thank you flash I appreciate your help Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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