Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'm having a run on contact with HCC today and have just sent the following and will let all know the reply: Railmaster Purchase Policy Dear HCC, Ther has been much recent debate in the forums on purchasing Railmaster (RM) and its handheld apps. Some seem to be able to purchase online via a facility in the evaluation version. However, from Australia, this option doesn't seem to be available. It is simple to make the option available via a minor edit of the Railmaster.ini file (there are instructions in the Manual on editing this file) but another forum member who did this, filled in the resultant form and paid, apparently received this reply fron HCC: "With regard to your message, you are unable to purchase a RailMaster upgrade from within the program at this time and we are not sure how you managed to do this. If you have altered the sofrware in order to do this then we are unable to accept the order at this time. You will need to purchase the upgrade/full copy from a retail store or online" Can you please confirm that this is your policy and, if so, give me some reason as to why you shoud discriminate against overseas purchasers in this way? It seems strange in this day and age that you should require me to buy a physical CD when it is so much easier and cheaper for both of us if I pay on line and you send me the licence key by email, especailly as the program is already available on line in the Evaluation version and you are already using this method in the UK. I would also note that the suggestion that altering the software invalidates the process is a little hard to reconcile with an edit in the ini file when there are instructions on editing this file in the Manual. On another matter, I would like some clarification on the licence conditions for the handheld app, which I have just purchased. When I now attempt to connect the evaluation version of the app to the evaluation version of RM, I get a message which says in part "the device is not activiated for use with this Railmaster server". This statement tends to indicate that handheld app licences are server-specific. Could you please confirm whether this is the case or if in fact I can use the licenced app on any RM server, not just the one on which I first registrered the app? Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Blimey! The words grapes, sour, shoulder and chip spring to mind in your post. NOBODY can buy RailMaster through the software, whether you are in Australia, the UK, Japan or on the moon. You have fiddled with the railmaster.ini file and altered the software in order to force the upgrade option to appear and you clearly have been told you can't do that, yet you still complain. Nowhere in the guide does it say you "can" or "should" do this for upgrades. You though you would be clever and it hasn't worked. Obviously, Hornby have decided not to allow built-in purchases of RailMaster itself so you need to buy a copy from a shop or an Internet retailer. It does appear rather simple. You can, of course, buy the app from within RailMaster. There is no "discrimination" going on. You have jumped to several wrong conclusions. As for the technical query regarding the connection of your app to your RailMaster, have you read the app guide (particularly the part about setting up your network properly)? Have you contacted the RailMaster support team directly on the support@rail-master.com address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Well, I didn't know the language was so different across the world. I thought I was reporting to others a respectful enquiry to HCC to clarify a number of issues. I don't think I would have broadcast to everyone if I was doing otherwise. And a check of the dictionary on the word discrimination might be in order too. In this context, it simply refers to different treatment. I'll let others judge whether I have achieved my purpose. In the meantime, I now have a bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 FMOz I can see the handheld licence for RM being a real problem as people may have more than one layout with RM where they want to use their handheld device - e.g. at home and/or at the club. I would suggest that having bought a licence for RM that licence would be all covering . I cant think of any software (pc or mac) where you need to purchase add-ons to operate an input/output device e.g. you can use 'office' but you cant print. Yes you may have to purchase add-ons to gain improved functionality, etc, e.g. expanded photo editing features, etc, but I wouldn't class a handheld input device in this category. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 "You can use office but you can't print" ? That is a terrible analogy. In any event Office costs over £300, 30 times more than the Hornby hand-held app and 400% more than RailMaster itself. What about your antivirus, where you have to pay every year to use the same product? You don't complain about that. What about Windows itself, which costs between £80 and £180 to upgrade every time a new one comes out. What about JMRI which charges for the hand-held app. What about Railroad and Co, which charges for the hand-held app ... or am I on a different planet! And what about ZTE, who generously give awy their app for free ... oh yes .. lovely ... BUT ... you HAVE to have their hardware interface at a ludicrous £1,200!!!! You expect Hornby to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds developing software and just give it away free. You're living in cloud cuckoo land. Any software that IS given away free has an angle ... i.e. advertising built in or is part of a much more expensive system ... e.g. your banking (and we know how the banks stiff us all). And you wouldn't class a hand-held app, which allows you to walk around your layout and control trains as "improved functionality". Tell you what ... DON'T BUY IT THEN. Why not just stick to an analogue controller. Nice and cheap and no frills. For the others of us, who think it is a great idea, we will buy it. And ... if they have more than one layout there is no problem ... just take your laptop and hand-helds to wherever the other layout is and use it there. I have two layouts, one OO and one N and use the SAME laptop and the SAME handhelds on both. As you will be aware, you can have an unlimited number of plans, programs and loco sets in RailMaster so it has clearly been designed to allow this. You really do need to wake up and smell the coffee ... and take a reality pill while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 And I almost forgot, one of the daftest things you said "I would expect the license to be all-covering". Presumably you mean that once you have bought a license for RailMaster you should be able to install it on as many different PCs as you like??? Just like Microsoft, Adobe, Norton .... I could go on with thousands of software packages. Adobe Master Collect, for example, wants £1,300 for each PC (above 2) that it is installed on. MS Office wants another £200 for each PC. And when was the last time you tried to install and register a legitimate copy of MS Windows on more than one PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think I might change my attitude here. It would seem you aren't a fair dinkum forum member unless LMSTim has seen fit to have a go at you. And I refer you to the the Macquarie dictionary for a definition of fair dinkum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 As a loyal and knowledgeable user of Hornby products (among many others), including their software, I have given a lot of advice to new users on this forum. I just get fed over two things 1) When people knock Hornby products for the sake of it and with no valid reason and 2) when penny-pinchers expect everything for free and don't think for a moment of the hard work and cost that went into creating something for them. You just have to be reasonable and make reasonable comments and people will respect you for it. Other members of my club, for example, laugh at some of the stupidity perpetrated on these forums. Why not just come up with constructive advice to make products better, rather than just knocking them. I have been in the I.T. business for 30 years and that is how you get things done, not by constantly knocking things. The effect the knocking has is to cause the supplier to say to themselves "Well sod it. Were not going to bother". Is that what you really want. I suggest you read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 FMoz I agree with your letter and re the replies from LMSTim welcome to the "ignore club" I like Hornby products but they do need to move with the times re online activations and app portability. Apple have pretty much defined how apps should work on iDevices - it's one purchase per Apple account - it's Hornby that have decided to move outside the norm and probably should re-consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Good point you make about Apple accounts Dave. I can have 100 iDevices and, as long as all are set up with the same account, all my apps work across them. This leaves it open to families "abusing" the licence conditions by having all the kids sharing the same apps but Apple realise this too and seem happy with it. I'll find the answer to my app question today too. Yesterday I bought and received the licence key for my iPad hand held RM and it worked fine. However, I did so via the evaluation RM on my laptop on the last day of the evaluation period. So it will have expired today and I will be setting up the eval version on my secondary laptop, being the one I intend to use with my layout. Having put the new static IP address into the app for this laptop, I'm hoping it works without a problem, but will know for sure soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 And while it is said that you can run eval versions of the app with eval versions of RM etc, my eval app refused to do anything except bring up the window in RM saying it was the evaluation version and giving me purchase upgrade options. I didn't operate when I closed that window, just opened it again a little later without loading my locos and layout. Once the licence key went in, it was up and away instantly. So it didn't appear to have any 90 day period for evaluation on the app. The app hasn't even existed for 90 days. And before the HPD starts talking about complaints again, I'm not complaining, simply observing for the benefit of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Quite glad I haven't got a 'i-device' of any sort - its all got a bit stressful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Well, I've asked my questions directly to the RM Support people now and am waiting for an answer. However, I have the answer on the app anyway because I just installed the eval version of RM on my second laptop, updated to the latest then set the laptop to a static IP address as is required to run the app. When I set the app to this address, it told me it was unregistered (even though it was already registed via RM on my other laptop). It gave me the option of registering though so I entered my activation key again. It told me this key had already been used. So it is clear tht the registration of the fully paid for app on my iPad is not registered to me generally but only via a specific copy of RM. I shall discuss with RM Support and let you know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 By the way, the eval version is running happily on my primary laptop with zero days of the eval period remaining. I'm interested to see what it says tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Currently have the RailMaster app on both the iPad and iPhone, will be interesting to see what happens there when I get my full copy of RailMaster and register the iPad app - what will happen on the iPhone ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 ps.. Don't overlook the use of Twitter to ask questions either - social media is very powerful ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Fishmanoz said: ...It would seem you aren't a fair dinkum forum member unless LMSTim has seen fit to have a go at you... Flamin' 'eck - I had to go and turn down my central heating after that flea in the ear from LMSTim and at 5 to 9 in the morning. He really should not presume anything without checking to see if I have the necessary licences, what I have/haven't bought, etc. Maybe the office vs printer was a poor analogy. The main point I was trying to make was that between Hornby and RM they need to get their licencing sorted out as there seems to be a left hand/right hand problem at present with regard to how you can get one and what it covers. For info: I do like RM even though it needs the detection system to be fully useful. All my kit is Hornby, except for 1 loco and a CDU. I am a very loyal supporter of the Hornby brand. I use AVG anti-virus - 'cos its free and very good. Nuff said - back to the train-set. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Well I'm glad to see the HPD rants are good for something. Unfortunately, the last thing I need right now is a house warmer! Having paid for a licence for my iPad though, I do need to actually be able to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 FMoz mines touched down in Sydney overnight, on it's way to Canberra - no hijacking please :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Good luck with it. I hope the licence didn't expire when it crossed the equator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 So I opened my expired eval copy today and was given the choice of exiting or registering. As I don't wish to register this copy, I exited. The problem is that my registered handheld licence is now stuck in this copy and I can't use it on the other computer I will be using with my layout. At least that would appear to be the case until I double check on the other computer. It would be nice if expiry of this copy of RM also de-activated the handheld copy, but I'm not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I am of course right. I can't de-activate the app as I can't get into the RM copy where it was activated. I'll let you know what RM Support has to say. I'm sure HPD will say I'm being unreasonable though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Very unreasonable !!!! ..."You really do need to wake up and smell the coffee ... and take a reality pill while you're at it." lol lol lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Well, 5 days and no response from HCC or RM Support. Not only that, but after automatic upgrade of my eval copy of RM to v1.48, there are now 2 warnings which bear on using the app on more than one RM server, and on an eval copy of RM. I believe both are contrary to the liceence terms under which I bought the app and have emailed RM Support as follows, and will let you all know the answer when I eventially get it: Dear RM Support, It is now 5 days since my original email to you and I have yet to see a reply. I would be pleased to see one so that I can use my handheld app. I believe you warrant to reply within 2 days? I also note that after upgrading RM to v1.48, there is now a warning that the app can only be used on one RM server. However, on checking the licence conditions, it says it can be used on one device, so I believe these 2 things are in conflict and the one device clearly prevails as it is part of the conditions under which I purchased. I also note it now says that if I register the app on an evaluation version of RM, I will not be able to use it when the evaluation period expires. Again this is contrary to the licence conditions under which I purchased, as I have pointed out above. I look forward to your early resolution of this for me. Finally, I would like to assure you that I am not trying to get something for very little here. I do however wish to evaluate RM with the handheld app before I confirm my current intention of buying the full version of RM. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Let's understand this. You are using an evaluation version of RailMaster? You are also using an evaluation version of the app? RailMaster itself lasts 90 days on evaluation The app's evaluation period therefore also lasts 90 days Plenty of time to decided whether you like it or not. What's the problem? It clearly says you pay £9.99 for each device you want to run the app on. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Just don't buy it if you don't like it ... duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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