Point Motors, Elite, & R8247

[Zathrus]

Hi,

I started with my first model railway about 14 months ago using Hornby 'OO' Gauge set rack and an Elite controller for a purely 'DCC' system and have really enjoyed it.

 

Now I have started building a bigger & hopefully better layout of my

 

own design using 'Code 75' finescale track, and planned on using only Hornby for the electrics as I already had the Elite controller, and thought they would have a better chance of integrating together and would require Hornby Surface point motors as well

 

as Hornby R8247 DCC Accessories & Points Decoders etc

 

Then I hit a snag; when I went to fit the Hornby surface point motor, I found that the Hornby 'loop' that clips over the raised stanchion on the turnouts linkage was to small and unfortunately the

 

loop diameter is too thin to be filed wider.

 

So, I have turned to different side mounted turnout motors (PL-11 made by the people who make the code 75 track i'm using) which fit properly to the turnout linkage IYSWIM?

 

 

Now the instructions

 

that come with both the turnout motors make reference to a ' Passing Contact Lever' but as I understand it that's just for DC & not for DCC as this is done via the Hornby Elite?

 

If any of you fine folks out there have any advice, suggestions or tips

 

to help me with this stage of fitting point motors with DCC I would be most thankful.

 

 

Many thanks

 

 

PS - Am I allowed to refer to other manufacturers in my posts, I know some websites sometimes block postings that mention competitors

 

& so I wondered about this Hornby forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flashbang]

Hi

Ironically the other peoples PL11 motor fits Hornby points OK!

For DCC operation form the Elite of Railmaster PC software etc you will need to use Accessory point decoders. These connect between the DCC system and the point motor. The Hornby

 

R8247 allows four point motors to be connected as each motor separately controlled from the DCC system.

 

Note each accessory decoder has four three way connections. One set of three per motor. The PL11 connects Green wire to the Comm or C terminal.

 

Red to the + and Black wire to the - terminal for the same block of three.

The R8247 also has two additional terminals that connect to the rails or a DCC bus pair of wires if a DCC bus is used. These two terminals provide the power and data to the decoder.

 

If

 

you have more that four point motors further accessory decoders are required to operate additional motors.

 

No passing contact levers etc are needed if DCC operation is used.

[Fishmanoz]

You can mix and match gear from different manufacturers in DCC as everything confirms with the same NMRA specification. There are some exceptions, such as the Select, but in general it is true.

[RDS]

@Zathrus

 

Have you fitted the small clips (Hornby item R8232) to your points?

You need two clips for each set of points.

These ensure that the whole circuit is live all the time which is needed for DCC.

[Graskie]

Not on P*co track, RDS, if live frog points are used.

[Fishmanoz]

But if using live frog, you need to switch the rails to ensure you don't get shorts. Instructions come with the live frog points. And you may wish to consider point motors with inbuilt switches for the purpose.

[Zathrus]

Fishmanoz said:

But if using live frog, you need to switch the rails to ensure you don't get shorts. Instructions come with the live frog points. And you may wish to consider point motors with inbuilt switches for the purpose.

Thanks

for all your support folks, I do indeed have the electrofrog 'LiveFrog' turnouts, and recently I purchased a 'Right Track' DVD and in it the presenter showed how to ensure that the track is fully 'Live' and how to modify the live electrofrog turnouts using

a small rotary cutting disc and soldering iron.

I've just installed four PL-11 turnout motors to four turnouts connected to a Hornby R8247 Accessories & Points Decoder and using the Elite controller running software 1.41, I have been able to assign

the four turnout motors without much fuss. I'm grateful for your advice on which colour wires go where, because initially on the first motor, which was a trial run before proceeding to the others, I'd incorrectly wired the green wire.

As soon as I

corrected that error, programming was nice and straightforward, I'm able to run loco's & turnout motors without any problems, that nice little 'click' noise is very gratifying to hear especially when you've just activated a turnout and see your loco going

in the direction you intended!

You say "...you may wish to consider point motors with inbuilt switches for the purpose...", this has thrown me a little (no pun intended), could you elaborate on this a little for me as I'm unsure what you mean.

Many

thanks to you all for your advice today, as a very new 'newbie' to the hobby, I sometimes feel a little behind you all when I hear and read references to names and acronyms I've never heard of before, so the help is appreciated.

Thanks

Andrew

[Fishmanoz]

The inbuilt switches are to change the polarity of the frog rail as you change the points but you can ignore as you've handled this with other switching arrangements.

 

I wondered why you need a cutting disc at first but then I realised that, while

 

the 245mm points have links that can be broken easily, the 184mm don't, hence your need for the cutting tool.

[Flashbang]

Zathrus said:
You say "...you may wish to consider point motors with inbuilt switches for the purpose...", this has thrown me a little (no pun intended), could you elaborate on this a little for me as I'm unsure what you mean.
Thanks
Andrew

Hi

Andrew
Electrofrog points require the fitting of insulated rail joiners (IRJs) onto the ends of the two Vee rails leading away from the frog. These prevent cross polarity occurring when the frogs polarity is switched over, either by the point blades or

a change-over switch. This would lead to a full short circuit occurring if IRJs were not installed.
Once the IRJs are fitted and you modify the point by cutting a gap in each of the closure rails (or removing the factory fitted under rail link wires on

some of these points) the frog rails are effectively electrically dead. Therefore some means of providing the correct polarity feed to the frog is needed. Prior to cutting the gap in the closure rail this could have been provided by the point blades closing

onto the stock rail. But now you will have to fit a switch. This is often by a motor operated change-over switch fitted onto the actual point motor e.g. PL10 with PL13 or PL15 switch fitted. Unfortunately your PL11 motors cannot have switches fitted to them,

so some other form of frog polarity switching will be needed. Some users opt for a small micro switch fitted onto the opposite side of the point from the motor and the micro switches operating lever worked by the points moving tie bar (Stretcher bar) then

via the switches contacts the frog polarity is changed over to match the position of the point blades.

Discussion around Electrofrog points, which are not a Hornby product, is really restricted on this forum. Perhaps a read of this website pages may

offer you more help? The Electrical and DCC pages are informative...http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk