Problem with Hornby Points Decoder

[Desperate_Dave]

I have a Select controller and bought a points decoder and 4 surface points.

Wired up the first point and worked fine, same with second and third, wired up fourth and none worked. Checked wiring was ok then returned to retailer thinking it was faulty.

 

Got a replacement, wired up first point worked ok, wired up second and it worked but first point didn't, wired up third and fourth and none work. Checked wiring ok. Please help before I sling it out of the window.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't know that I have the answer Dave but there have certainly been reports of decoders having faulty outputs.

 

Does your shop have a setup where they can test your decoder? Or do they have a 4Amp power supply that can be used with your Select

 

and decoder to see if it makes a difference?

[Desperate_Dave]

Fishmanoz said:

Don't know that I have the answer Dave but there have certainly been reports of decoders having faulty outputs.

Does your shop have a setup where they can test your decoder? Or do they have a 4Amp power supply that

can be used with your Select and decoder to see if it makes a difference?

[Flashbang]

Hi

Firstly reset the Select as per the manuals page 19.

Re address the decoder as per the manual.

Ensure none of your motors are defective or wired incorrectly.

If you get motor output 1 working and operating motor 1 ok, then remove its wiring

 

and connect motor 2 in its place and make sure that works ok. Carry on like this with motors 3 and 4 being connected in turn to output 1. Each should work correctly.

Once all four motors are proved to work ok connect them to their respective outputs 1 to

 

4 and re check their operation.

[Desperate_Dave]

Thanks I'll give that a try. The decoder is situated at the opposite end of the layout to the Select Controller - does that make a difference?

[2e0dtoeric]

Have you wired the layout using a BUS, or are you assuming the track will carry the signals from the controller to the decoder?

How far away (along the track or wires) is 'the other end'?

If you used a BUS, what weight of wire is in it?

Remember

 

- a long run of thin wire loses more power than the same length of thick wire.

[Flashbang]

Desperate_Dave said:

Thanks I'll give that a try. The decoder is situated at the opposite end of the layout to the Select Controller - does that make a difference?

Hi
Yes it might do?
As per 2e0dtoeric reply, are you using

a DCC bus pair of wires to just the rails for power and data transmission?

[Fishmanoz]

You can avoid the long wire run by connecting to track adjacent to the decoder, don't have to come back to the Select.

 

I agree with Flashbang that everything should be proved individually, but I think you still have the problem of them working

 

when all 4 good connections are made?

[Desperate_Dave]

Flashbang said:
Thanks
Hi
Firstly reset the Select as per the manuals page 19.
Re address the decoder as per the manual.
Ensure none of your motors are defective or wired incorrectly.
If you get motor output 1 working and operating

motor 1 ok, then remove its wiring and connect motor 2 in its place and make sure that works ok. Carry on like this with motors 3 and 4 being connected in turn to output 1. Each should work correctly.
Once all four motors are proved to work ok connect them

to their respective outputs 1 to 4 and re check their operation.

[Desperate_Dave]

Thanks. Followed instructions to letter. With each point it worked once when P6 showed but when I used the other direction button (after waiting few seconds) nothing happened when P5 showed and when I pressed the other direction button again for P6 it

 

wouldn't work again. Also the green light stayed on instead of going out after one second on each direction button.

As it is a Select unit does it need the extra 4amp accessory? Think I'll go back to using the fishing rod to change the points.

[Fishmanoz]

Shouldn't need 4Amp supply to switch one point. Can you do testing as I suggested st your local model shop or club?

[wiggy25]

As a further test.

 

Is it possible to connect the accessory decoder directly to the Select?

This will eliminate anything on the layout that could be causing a problem.

 

What I would do is get two short lengths of wire(or the one that comes

 

with the accessory decoder)

Plug that into the accessory decoder and the other end directly into the Select track outputs.

Reprogram the decoder as per the instructions then after checking all the point motors are OK, wire each one into it's own port.

 

Try

 

operating each output one at a time both ways, remember to wait a few seconds for the on board capacitors to charge back up before trying to switch the point.

 

If all works OK like this it could be the wiring around your layout.

Which accessory decoder

 

model is it?

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Desperate_Dave]

wiggy25 said:

As a further test.

Is it possible to connect the accessory decoder directly to the Select?
This will eliminate anything on the layout that could be causing a problem.

What I would do is get two short lengths

of wire(or the one that comes with the accessory decoder)
Plug that into the accessory decoder and the other end directly into the Select track outputs.
Reprogram the decoder as per the instructions then after checking all the point motors are OK, wire

each one into it's own port.

Try operating each output one at a time both ways, remember to wait a few seconds for the on board capacitors to charge back up before trying to switch the point.

If all works OK like this it could be the wiring around

your layout.
Which accessory decoder model is it?

Cheers

Ian

[Desperate_Dave]

Thanks - tried but no joy. Think my layout wiring is okay. There are 18 points all with DCC clips and I've 2 locomotives which run round the whole layout with no problem and the turntable works fine. What I can't understand is that the first decoder worked

 

fine until I got to the last port then stopped working and the replacement one got to the third point then went wrong. Would have been better if it hadn't worked at all. Thanks for all your help - it's very frustrating - perhaps I should find a new hobby.

[Fishmanoz]

Dave, don't despair, something is faulty and it is a matter of logically going through a process to eliminate all the things that work until you find the one that doesn't. So let's do that. Start by removing all locos so only the points decoder is connected.

 

The

 

only things in your system are the Select, the points decoder, the point motors, the points and the wiring between them. Let's look at each in turn.

 

The connection between the Select and the decoder. You said you have the desoldering connected directly

 

back to the Select I believe? I said you only needed to connect the decoder to track. Also, your locos work. That tells me that your track wiring is working, so as long as the connection between decoder and wherever you connect it to track or Select is sound,

 

then this will be OK. Can you test this wiring to make sure it is OK? I'm going to assume you have and go on.

 

Connections between decoder and point motors. The black wire from the point motor is the common and goes to the centre terminal. The red and

 

green go to the +ve and -ve. Confirm this is how you have them wired. Double check they are wired this way.

 

Now we will go through Flashbang's suggestions. So start by resetting the Select. Now make sure the decoder is connected to it and program the

 

decoder. As you know, you only have to set the starting address and the rest follow in sequence. Check this has worked.

 

Now as Flashbang says, connect one point motor to port 1 and check it works. Remove it and connect all of the other point motors

 

in turn to port 1 and check they work. If they all work this way, your point motors are OK.

 

Now connect a motor to port 2, with nothing connected to the other ports, and check if that is ok. Now repeat that with a connection only to 3, and then only

 

to 4. Do they all work?

 

If you have got this far and everything is still working, now try connecting 2 point motors and see how you go. I think this is where you started having problems? If still ok though, try 3 point motors, then 4. If it fails at

 

any part of this sequence, let us know.

 

If it all worked with only 1 motor connected and failed at some point beyond that when more then one connected, then you could possibly have a current problem which the 4Amp supply could solve. I would be trying

 

to access one to try before I spent the money on it. That's why I suggested testing via your local shop.

 

If it has all worked this time, try putting one loco back and see if it keeps working, then the second loco. That way you are gradually increase

 

the load in the Select to see if it stops at any point.

 

So try all of that and report back. Make sure you are specific about exactly what you have done up to and including any failure, then we'll have a better chance of helping you diagnose the fault.

 

The important thing is to be logical about adding one extra thing at a time so you can see exactly where any faults start to occur and isolate them to the last thing you did.

 

Good luck.

[Fishmanoz]

Desoldering should be decoder.

[Desperate_Dave]

Thanks for all the trouble you've taken but have to report no success. Followed all your instructions down to 'Connect one point motor to port 1 and see if it works' Ran a locomotive over entire track including sidings with no problem.

Put first point

 

motor in Port 1 and pressed direction button. It worked but green light stayed on and when pressed other direction button nothing happened and green light stayed on. Pressed first direction button and nothing happened. Motors Nos 2&3 in port one - nothing.

 

Motor 4 in Port 1 faint click on first direction arrow but nothing else. Tried motor in ports 2 then 3 then 4 and nothing happened. Decoder was warm so something happening.

Originally I had all the motors extended with wire through connectors so they could

 

reach the decoder from their various points - why are the wires so short? For the instructions above I disconnected the connectors so just used the wire from the point motors which is very thin. As this is the 2nd decoder I have tried and someone posted that

 

there have been faulty ones around have I just been unlucky?

Thanks again for your help

[Flashbang]

Hi

As this is the Select and its being used to operate a Hornby PAD.

According to the video the Select uses address number 61 for the first points output then automatically gives address numbers 62, 63 and 64 to the three other outputs in sequence.

The

 

green direction LEd remains on once the direction button is pressed and only goes out when the other direction button is pressed Then its green LED lights.

 

See this Hornby programming PAD video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gjFYlrXms&list=PL80F2B374019B6166

 

For

 

PAD operation this video covers it....

 

Assuming you're doing all the above as per the videos, then are you sure your PAD is receiving full rail power/data? It may be worth as a temporary

 

test running two wires directly tot eh Selects Track connections from the PAD and retesting it.

Also did you carry out the Select reset ok?

[Fishmanoz]

Dave, unless anything else comes to light from Flashbang's above, I think your decoder is again faulty (it was me mentioned recent faulty decoders) and you should return it to the shop taking your Select with you so that you can show them what is happening.

 

 

 

From what you say, it sounds like something with the capacitor Discharge Unit in the decoder not recharging after initial firing. The fact it is getting warm indicates that significant current is flowing somewhere but clearly not allowing the CDU to

 

provide the burst of current to the port to fire the motor.

[Desperate_Dave]

Thanks Flashbang for your help. I had seen the 2 videos earlier it's just that in the Select Manual it says they only illuminate for one second which is obviously wrong. Have also tried running 2 wires direct to Select Track Connection and did the reset.

Fishmanoz.

 

Got this decoder from Amazon so will take it to nearby Model Shop for testing and let you know outcome. Thanks again

[Desperate_Dave]

Took decoder to shop as advised and yes like the first one it's faulty. So that's two that I've ordered, spent hours wondering what was wrong, pestered those helpful people on the forum and had to return items for refund. Off now to have a quiet word with

 

Hornby

[Chestfield]

Desperate_Dave said:

I have a Select controller and bought a points decoder and 4 surface points.
Wired up the first point and worked fine, same with second and third, wired up fourth and none worked. Checked wiring was ok then returned

to retailer thinking it was faulty. Got a replacement, wired up first point worked ok, wired up second and it worked but first point didn't, wired up third and fourth and none work. Checked wiring ok. Please help before I sling it out of the window.

[DEWINNES]

Hello I have had the same problem and have spent a year messing about I also got the decoders changed and am still having the same problem. Did you get them to work. I need to contact hornby

[Fishmanoz]

See my reply on your other thread. Also, there have been some issues with decoders when Select is only connected to its 1amp supply. If you are still running that but thinking of upgrading to 4amp, you might do it sooner rather then later.

 

However,

 

one side ports working and the other not still sounds like a decoder fault to me.

 

And the other thing you may have noted is that there haven't been any recent posts on this. That may be due to the decoder being out of stock, and having been so for

 

some time. That again says to me that one of the possibilities is that they've withdrawn a faulty batch and are waiting on good new stock.

 

So definitely contact Customer Care and let us know what they say.