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Converting old HST....!

eandbee

By eandbee
in Hornby DCC

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eandbee Rookie

eandbee

Posted
Posted

Hi,

I have converted (successfully) quite a few of my old locos - 60's, 70's, 80's..!

 

I am now looking at my old Hornby HST circa 1980, directional lights etc. It has I would assume a 3-pole Ringfield motor and on DC it runs very sweetly.

First

 

of all I tried putting in a basic Hornby decoder but the loco stubbornly refused to move, even after a little 'encouragement'. It does try a few times forwards, nothing at all in reverse. I have used a harness to make it easier to swap between decoders and

 

have tested the track current all the way through to the decoder itself. It's certainly receiving 14.4v. However at the motor end, orange/grey I see nothing at all.

I then swapped for a DCC Concepts S series which has a 1.1A continuous / 1.6A peak. Similar

 

result having tested the voltage up to the decoder.

My third decoder was an Opti DCC25 with 1.3A/2A peak. Similar result. I then went back to DC with the blanking plate fitted and again it ran sweetly...!

The Opti and DCCConcepts chips I guess are fairly

 

low budget - is it worth looking at TCS / Lenz..?

I have an almost similar problem with a Flying Scotsman (tender drive) - again the Ringfield motor...

I use an NCE PowerPro DCC system. I have installed both the DCC Concepts and the Opti series chips

 

in other models without issue so it's not a compatibility issue as far as I can tell...

 

Any help readily appreciated!

 

By the way, I didn't connect up the lights yet until the loco was proven although I did connect the lights in the dummy car

 

with an Opti series decoder and directional lighting works fine.

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Rog RJ Veteran

Rog RJ

Posted
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Have you made sure that with no wires attached there is no connection between the left hand brush holder and the chassis?

 

If the brush holders aren't isolated from the chassis it will usually result in instant failure of the decoder when power is

 

applied to the model.

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eandbee Rookie

eandbee

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Rog (RJ)

 

The brush holders are definitely isolated - no problems there... It's really strange...!

 

I did actually follow the Brian Lambert site and am paranoid about isolating from the chassis (having seen a decoder literally catch fire several

 

weeks ago..!!)

 

I'm really lost with this issue at the moment! On DC it runs perfectly...

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Fishmanoz Grand Master

Fishmanoz

Posted
Posted

Given the left hand brush is isolated as you say, I would be double and triple checking the wiring to your harness. I think you may have done this incorrectly. Follow your connections through to make sure decoder red and black go to the pickups and decoder

 

orange and grey go to the brush connections. Given it runs DC and the left hand brush is isolated, it almost must work if these connections are done correctly.

 

And remember this is a Hornby forum, so detailed reference to non-Hornby stuff should be

 

avoided. In this case though, brand should be irrelevant as the material aspects of all decoders will be the same apart from current capability.

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Augustus Caesar Mentor

Augustus Caesar

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Hi eandbee

 

About a year ago I converted a 1980's blue/grey 125 HST to DCC and fitted Hornby 4 function decoders along with LED's to give directional lighting. It all works very well and the motor in the lead car was a Ringfield one. There was NO

 

need to isolate brushes in this model.

 

I made no mods to the chassis on either the lead or dummy cars and the LED's were pre fitted to a small circuit board which then sat behind the plastic lens on each car. The wiring was very easy. I photographed

 

each stage of the process and still have the images.

 

If you would like to know how the wiring goes let me know. The circuit boards were bought from a private seller on e**y who has his own small business called black cat technologies and they were only

 

a fiver each. He is very helpful if info is required.

 

The lighting is bi directional and only one small change to soldering one wire to the front board is needed for the rear car's board to give red and white alternately.

 

My own 125 is still

 

working very well with the LED's fitted and I am very pleased with the results.

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eandbee Rookie

eandbee

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@Fishmanoz - yes the wiring is definitely correct. With the loco on the track I get 14.4V at the red and black terminals. Have also tested the wires to the decoder and the same voltage gets to the decoder. When selecting 03 (brand new decoders) and measuring

 

the grey/orange I get nothing except the occasional flicker.

I started using the standard Hornby decoder and assumed it didn't give enough of a 'kick-start' to the ringfield as it's an old motor so then moved up to the 1.3/2.0A decoder. I have tested the

 

decoders in other locos and no problems at all.

Have to say I'm really stumped by this one! Guess I'll take it all apart again and start from the very beginning...

 

@AugustusCaesar - would be interesting to see your wiring... I have recently bought

 

a few Red/White LEDs for bi-directional lighting!

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Augustus Caesar Mentor

Augustus Caesar

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Apologies guys... been ultra busy the last couple of days and not had a chance to read responses re my 125 photo's. I'll post them to my site in the next day or so and will post the link here for you. The link will stay up for a short time while I write

 

my own business site to go in place of the uploaded pics.

 

If they prove useful I may just provide a further link and leave them up longer. Bare with me on this one please fellas...

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Fishmanoz Grand Master

Fishmanoz

Posted
Posted
eandbee said:

@The son of Triangman

The left hand contact is definitely isolated from the rails... would this make a difference? I can check this later...

Not a good idea at all. As an old techie friend of mine once said,

if you do that, all that you can then do is adjust the loco for minimum smoke. Slightly perverse for a steam loco but you want the smoke out of the chimney, not coming from the decoder.
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Augustus Caesar Mentor

Augustus Caesar

Posted
Posted

Just as an aside... I've found the pictures for the wiring of the 125 etc but the text I had with them (well, thought I had with them!) is missing... :-(

 

So I'll write it up again as best I can and get the info to you all asap... (I'm not going

 

down the bare or bear route again...)

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The son of Triangman Grand Master

The son of Triangman

Posted
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As this is urgent I thought I had better log in whilst I am sorting out stock to go to auction.

 

Here's a 3 pole ringfield, wiring for a decoder will be the same except for the function outputs to the lights.

 

http://s157.photobucket.com/user/thetriangman/media/duchess2.jpg.html?sort=6&o=49

 

The

 

cast chassis pin that touches the lefthand brush retainer will make a big difference, I put two layers of heat shrink on the lefthand retainer and bend the retainer away from the pin underneath. If the pin is in contact then you have a direct link to the chassis

 

and will have probably fried the decoder.

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Blackbird Collaborator

Blackbird

Posted
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Hi eandbee, in a previous listing on this thread you stated that the brushes were isolated, then said that it ran perfectly on DC? If it runs on DC, the chassis connected brush can't be isolated! Use a multimeter to check isolation between brushes and

 

chassis. It will only run on DC if chassis is connected to one of the brush connections.

There are various means of isolating the ringfield motor chassis connections published on this forum.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Blackbird Collaborator

Blackbird

Posted
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Hi AugustusCaesar,

I have to question your statement, that 'There was NO need to isolate brushes in this model.' If this was an original '80's 125, then one of the brushes would have been connected to the chassis, and fitting a decoder, without alteration,

 

would not work! It must have been previously modified?

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Augustus Caesar Mentor

Augustus Caesar

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Well guys... first of all may I apologise for not getting my wiring details up for you re the 80's 125 and the PCB's to give directional lighting...

 

I've been through a torrid time with an illness which has basically left me drained for a week after

 

recovering. I'm just about back to full fitness and this is my first time back on here for a few weeks... so, as promised I have managed to redo the texts and add a couple of better pictures to help you out if you want to do this.

 

I have uploaded a

 

pdf file to my site and I suggest you SAVE it and then read it as the quality of the text is not good in a browser for most of you. You can print the details for yoursleves but I ask you, ever so politely, not to copy it or pass it on. I am hoping you will

 

undrstand...

 

Anyway, here's the link.. at long last!!! lol

 

http://www.octaviancs.com/hornby125/Fit4FDecandPCBtoHornby125.pdf

 

Let me know your comments on how I did and your thoughts on the whole concept of this board. I hope to see the

 

maker of it at Hartlepool and discuss some other work with him. I can pass other requests if you cannot be there.

 

I have loads of reading on here to do to catch up so...

 

Enjoy... :-)

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