grich123 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 HI IAM HAVING TROUBLE SETTING UP MY POINTS UP WITH DCC CONTROLL . ANYONE HAVE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM AND YOU HOW TO SORT IT PLEASE REPLY.tHANKS G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 We need a lot more information before we can give any advice.What controller are you using, are you using accessory decoders and what exactly is the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grich123 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 IAM USING ELITE CONTROLLER WITH POINT/ACC DECODER AND HORNBY POINT.WHEN I TRY REGISTER THE POINT IT MAKES NOISE AND MOVES BUT I WHEN PUT ON THE MAIN LINE TRACK FROM THE PROGRAMMING TRACK ITS DOESNT WORK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornby Customer Care Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Hi grich123,There are two different point decoders and depending on which you have there are different ways of programming. If you have the R8247 (this can be found on the bottom of the unit) please use this set of instructions:1. Plug in the power lead to the R8247 module and connect it directly to the ‘Prog’ slot on the Elite controller2. Press the ‘Menu’ button3. Cycle the dial until ‘Acc’ is displayed and confirm by pressing Control 14. Select ‘Direct’ and press Control 15. Ensure ‘Address’ is displayed and confirm 6. ‘Write’ will appear and should be confirmed by pressing Control 17. Input the desired address, for example ’61’ and press the control dial to confirm8. The red LED will then flash numerous times, however, please ensure it flashes less than eight times9. The R8247 has now been programmed, with the other 3 ports being programmed as the next three consecutive addresses (e.g. 62, 63 and 64).If you are using the R8216; please check the date code on the bottom of the unit as some were miss labeled in fact they are R8247. If the date code is below and not including 50/07 then it is R8216, otherwise it is the R8247). The instructions for the R8216 are:Elite controller: Point Decoder R8216 Programming Procedure1) Please connect the point motor to the first channel output of the Point Decoder. Please Note: when the Point Decoder starts the programme cycle it activates channel 1. This behaviour can be used as an indicator that programming has commenced. Ensure that you have the point motor correctly connected. Red = +Black = CGreen = - *** *** It is possible that this wire may be Brown or White depending on when your point motor was manufactured.Peco point motor wiring is different:Red = +Black = -Green = C 2) Set the point motor armature so that it is set centrally between the two coils. When the point motor activates it will throw the armature towards one of the coils, there will be an audible click from the solenoid as this happens. This procedure is advised; as it will make it easier to tell when the point motor armature has been thrown indicating successful programming.You may use the surface mount low profile point decode, but indication as described above is more difficult to see. E.g. there will be a faint click or, the bell crank will move; depending on the direction the point motor is thrown.3) Connect the Point Decoder to the programming output of the Elite. For programming purposes it is recommended that the Point Decoder is connected directly to the programme output of the Elite. 4) Carry out the programming procedure as directed in the Elite manual page 39. Ensure that you use “Reg” mode. Please Note: It is likely that the point motor will fail to programme on first attempt (this is normal) after the initial programme cycle has been executed the Elite display will show the message “Address”. Pressing the control knob (knob 1 in the example in the manual) 3 times in succession will repeat the programming cycle, repeat this action until the point motor is activated as described above. Address RangesThe Point Decoder has four output ports that are set in a group of four consecutive addresses. The address range is 1-252. If you programme the Point Decoder as any number in the range 1-4, e.g. 3, the 4 output ports of the Point Decoder will be allocated as addresses 1, 2, 3, and 4.If you programme the Point Decoder as any number in the range 5-8 e.g. 7, the 4 output ports of the Point Decoder will be allocated to addresses 5, 6, 7, and 8. These batches of 4 addresses are often referred to as Groups. Therefore, Group 1 will be addresses 1-4, Group 2 will be address range 5-8 and so on; up to a total of 63 possible groups.Q & A ExplanationsWhen I used a Select to programme the Point Decoders and they all worked fine. Now I have an Elite and it won’t programme my Point Decoders, what’s going on?The Point Decoder R8216 was primarily designed to be used with the Hornby Select unit. When attempting to programme the R8216 with the Elite it is possible for the programming process to fail on the first attempt. This is due to the Select not having a dedicated programme output connection like the Elite. This factor is a crucial difference when programming the Point Decoder R8216 with the Elite. The issue is to do with current limits.During the programming cycle the Select track output connections is used. This output is designed to run the locos as well as perform the task of programming. Because the Select output is designed both functions; it is not current limited.More sophisticated controllers, e.g. the Elite, are equipped with low current dedicated programme track outputs. The limited current programming output connection affords some form of protection of a decoder if a mistake has been made in “hardwiring” a decoder to a non DCC loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a question regarding the point accessory decoder R8247. I am about to purchase a decoder/decoders and will eventually have railmaster. I have the elite.I am a bit concerned about the 'charging' up of the decoder if I want to switch a crossover and a following turnout ( all rather quickly) within a couple of secs all three thrown. I have the hornby surface mounted point motors and a current CDU and manual switching which I will continue to have for some parts of the layout. But the bit I want to computer control has to be able to throw these turnouts quickly.Perhaps 'Customer care' could voice their opinion. Do you wire in each of the crossover points into one output of the decoder or do you assign an address for each one?I have been a bit 'wary' and have toyed with the idea of a non CDU like the Lenz LS150 or the Team digital decoder which has routing and a built in CDU.But I am happy to go with the hornby ( R8247) one if it is up to the job.Could anyone give any reasurance as the hornby is a good price from my local model shop and I don't want compatibility issues down the road with railmaster etc.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 SteveIf you don't want independent control of the two points in the crossover (I see no reason) then you can wire them into the same output on the decoder. The R8247 will have no problem switching two points at the same time.I've some Seep points motors which seem to be more powerful compared to the Hornby ones so after a dual point switch I would have to wait probably two seconds before attempting another to get a clean switch. Using Hornby motors 1 second would be long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnerZ Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've used the Hornby decoder on a crossover and it flicks both points fine. It sometimes only flips the other back if I don't leave a long enough gap though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornby Customer Care Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 You do not need to 'charge' either of the units. This only needs to be done sometimes for the R8216 when programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornby Customer Care Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 It is sometime desirable to activate multiple points at the same time; the user enters a single point address and two or more points activate in unison. This can be achieved by setting up two or more Point and Accessory Decoders (PAD) with the same address i.e. all PADs with a common address range will individually fire the same port when accessed. This practice is sometimes referred to as “Shadowing.” However, another (more economical) technique worth thinking about when planning DCC control of the points on your layout is the possibility of activating two points at the same time from one port of the R8247 PAD. The R8247 PAD is capable of driving two Point Motors connected to any one output port. This simplifies the switching of two common points when moving a loco between two different loops of track. Hornby recognize that this is a common practice.However, the above technique can have its draw backs. We must point out that the “cycle time of the on-board CDU (capacitor discharge unit) maybe longer due to the increased load of two point motors together. When activating a series of points in this “doubled up” configuration it is advisable to wait a couple of seconds or so between each action.Please note: In some cases it is possible for the on-board CDU to fail to activate two Point Motors/points connected commonly if the points in question are mechanically “tight.” This can happen if the point is not mounted absolutely flat or is blocked in some way by landscaping materials etc. This issue is a case of experimentation to see if the R8247 can supply enough energy to activate the pair of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well I can experiment with two decoders. There will be three points to throw in quick succession. The crossover pair ( one decoder) and the third point activated by a 2nd decoder. The recharging time isn't so much an issue. I wasn't trying to be excessively ' economical' - more perhaps practical.BTW - I am very pleased to see a more pro-active and regular response by Hornby customer care - please don't underestimate the importance of your forum feedback as ( for us novices) its a reason to go with hornby rather than makes that may or may not be better but don't offer the advice and feedbackSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornby Customer Care Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thank you Steve i'm glad I can help. You will be also happy to know that we are creating a new and improved Help section of the website; it is still under construction at the moment but I'm sure it will hold information useful to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have 2 point decoders 1 R8247 and 1 R8216-05-07. The R8216 has programed fine using my Elite controller, being given No's 61-65 as these where the only numbers I could get it to recognise on the 10th attempt. I have tried every set of numbers from Zero to 75 to programme the R8247, but no luck. The best I can get is the point connected to port 3 works when I change point 63. I researched how to program, I have found that there is at least 2 ways described in literature supplied by hornby, different in points manual, control manual and the hornby Youtube channel and also tried as described above in this forum. Some say use Reg some say Direct. I have tried to program from the Prog outlet, the track outlet with everything else disconnected. Now at end of tether. This is second only in difficulty as I found trying to load the RailMaster from the disc to my laptop.[iHelp][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've successfully programmed 8247s using the instructions that come with them.Connect to the programming track and set CV513 to the group address you wish to use via direct mode. Setting a value of 1 means the ports will be accessory numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4.It's normally the 8216s that cause all the problems with the Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thamk you ace10086 tryed that now no luke.Both Decoders are programed to No's 61,62,63,64. I cannot get either of them to accept any different numbers what am I doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy25 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Steve,I use two of the SMD82's and you do need to wait for the CDU to charge up!It can take up to 7secs if you fire all 8 points on the decoder.I've also used the LS150 using it's own power supply this would overload when trying to fire points and I found it very unreliable hence the two SMD82's(bought for the route setting)To be on the safe side I now when ever possible use the Low power point motors that are available from another well known manufacturer or the slow action stall type.CheersIanstevecamden said:I have a question regarding the point accessory decoder R8247. I am about to purchase a decoder/decoders and will eventually have railmaster. I have the elite.I am a bit concerned about the 'charging' up of the decoder if I want to switch a crossover and a following turnout ( all rather quickly) within a couple of secs all three thrown. I have the hornby surface mounted point motors and a current CDU and manual switching which I will continue to have for some parts of the layout. But the bit I want to computer control has to be able to throw these turnouts quickly.Perhaps 'Customer care' could voice their opinion. Do you wire in each of the crossover points into one output of the decoder or do you assign an address for each one?I have been a bit 'wary' and have toyed with the idea of a non CDU like the Lenz LS150 or the Team digital decoder which has routing and a built in CDU.But I am happy to go with the hornby ( R8247) one if it is up to the job.Could anyone give any reasurance as the hornby is a good price from my local model shop and I don't want compatibility issues down the road with railmaster etc.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Andie said:Thamk you ace10086 tryed that now no luke.Both Decoders are programed to No's 61,62,63,64. I cannot get either of them to accept any different numbers what am I doing wrong.I don't know what else to suggest other than factory resetting your Elite.I programmed a new 8247 yesterday, worked first time.Wired directly into programming terminals on EliteMenu > Acc > Direct > CV > Write > Entered 513 > Entered 4Programming light flashed 5 or 6 times.Disconnected from Elite and connected to trackSelected Accessory 13 (first port of group 4). Had to switch it a couple of times before the solenoid moved.Maybe your decoder is faulty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thank you again for your help.But i'm unable to recode either decode.tried as you said above when you say enter 4 is that in the "W" part of the coding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 yes correct, the number after the W.You have CV 513 W 004 on the display, which indicates you are setting CV 513 to value 4.What firmware is your Elite using? If it isn't on V1.3 it might be worth upgrading it. I don't know if previous versions had problems in this area but it cannot hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Yes i'm on V1.3 firmwareTried again will not reprogram.tried resetting Elite as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemarvel Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 See my latest posting on R8247, it may work for you as well, in particular resetting the accessory controller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indaloman Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I am building a railway using Hornby DCC, and have used the clips to make points live. However, I have been given some Peco insulfrog points. Can I use Hornby DCC clips on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Indaloman said:I am building a railway using Hornby DCC, and have used the clips to make points live. However, I have been given some Peco insulfrog points. Can I use Hornby DCC clips on themYes you can, fit in exactly the same way.I have one Peco point on my layout used to solve a specific derailing issue when using Hornby points. It seems the Peco ones are made to tighter tolerances so provided the wheel back to back measurements are set correctly they perform very well. Also the insulating part of the frog is smaller so stalling is less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indaloman Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Thank you. It would have been a shame to waste them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I have managed to get the R8247 to switch two points on the crossover with ease. What I hadn't realised was that the surface point point motors have to be on opposite sides of the two points so that the 'throw' is the same - you can't have one 'pulling' the blade and the other 'pushing'. Anyway - I have to get it throwing with Railmaster now as I am sure I will have crashes operating trains and points from the elite!Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 stevecamden said:I have managed to get the R8247 to switch two points on the crossover with ease. What I hadn't realised was that the surface point point motors have to be on opposite sides of the two points so that the 'throw' is the same - you can't have one 'pulling' the blade and the other 'pushing'. Anyway - I have to get it throwing with Railmaster now as I am sure I will have crashes operating trains and points from the elite!SteveYou could just reverse the wiring to one of the points instead of moving the motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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