RM/elink using accessory decoder DCC concepts AD-S8

[RDS]

[reply]PJ_model_trains said:

 

Can I add two points to one decoder outlet, for cross overs?[Yes, you can add 2 points to one decoder outlet for crossovers]

[RDS]

@PJ_model_trains

I will try that response again.

(I was trying top get the question to appear in a box like many manage to do on this forum but without success, so I will revert to my usual method)

 

Yes, you can add 2 points to one decoder

 

outlet for crossovers.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

RDS said:

@PJ_model_trains
I will try that response again.
(I was trying top get the question to appear in a box like many manage to do on this forum but without success, so I will revert to my usual method)

Yes, you can add

2 points to one decoder outlet for crossovers.

Brilliant, that brings my 21 points to 18 controlled points as I have 3 cross-overs

Thank you

[PJ_model_trains]

RDS said:

@PJ_model_trains
I will try that response again.
(I was trying top get the question to appear in a box like many manage to do on this forum but without success, so I will revert to my usual method)

Yes, you can add

2 points to one decoder outlet for crossovers.

If you don't want to include the message you are coming from with your reply, just delete it and write your message then send it ;-)

[PJ_model_trains]

And if you want the message to appear just put your cursor after the message then type and sent it ;-)

[RDS]

PJ_model_trains said:

And if you want the message to appear just put your cursor after the message then type and sent it ;-)

Thanks. Just testing, hope this works.

[Fishmanoz]

RDS said:

Thanks. Just testing, hope this works.

It's simple - when you type outside the reply in square brackets, either before the first one, or sfter the last, your content appears as per your test message and this one.

If

you accidentally put your content anywhere with those replies, it comes out appearing as part of the window and is hard to distinguish from the original poster's content.

Unless I have a particular reason though, I don't use the black Reply to a particular

post at all, preferring to use the red Post Reply box. That way, we don't end up with other's posts clogging up the pages in a thread with sometimes multiple repeats of the content. When I do have a reason, it's because there are intervening posts and I want

to refer to something in particular that someone has said, and then I will edit the original post down to just that bit I want to reply to and so save space.

[PJ_model_trains]

Picking up on what I have read and looking ahead to when I get into scenery, road and all the other things including lighting in streets, stations, etc, etc

 

I have decided I am going to put in a separate DCC Bus for the points and lighting accessories.

 

 

 

If I do this do I need another controller and have to connect it to the first one? I notice in RailMaster there are options for two inputs A and B. Do I need 2 eLinks and connect them together or do I just wire both DCC Bus wires into the TRACK terminals

 

in the eLink and use the 4 amp transformer?

 

How does this work?

[Fishmanoz]

Sorry PJ, you don't under any circumstances join DCC controllers together. The unbreakable rule is one controller per DCC circuit. Take a look back over previous posts in various threads and it ha been said many times.

 

Yes, two controllers A and

 

B can be used on a single copy of RM. But they must be run from completely separate circuits via completely separate buses. You would have one bus connected to one eLink with droppers to the track for locos. Then you would have a separate bus for accessories

 

with another eLink and not connected to track at all.

 

Personally, I think your layout as you've described it is modest, the total load from locos and accessories unlikely to exceed that of a single DCC circuit, and the complication of two buses unwarranted.

 

For a start,the load from firing points is intermittent when they actually fire, so unlikely to have a significant affect on the number of locos that can be actually running st one time.

 

Notice I haven't mentioned lighting. It makes sense to run these

 

from a separate circuit as they don't need DCC control via RM, a simple on off switch will suffice. You can run them via decoder ports set to continuous output of course. But you would need to set them up in banks of serial/parallel arrangements that each

 

doesn't exceed the current available from each port. Then of course you can turn them on and off via RM. These days, all lighting should be LEDs as they are far more efficient. You would have to calculate the total load of the lights and, if you want to control

 

via RM, decide if a separate circuit is now warranted. Brian Lambert has good coverage of lighting.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Sorry PJ, you don't under any circumstances join DCC controllers together. The unbreakable rule is one controller per DCC circuit. Take a look back over previous posts in various threads and it ha been said many times.

Yes,

two controllers A and B can be used on a single copy of RM. But they must be run from completely separate circuits via completely separate buses. You would have one bus connected to one eLink with droppers to the track for locos. Then you would have a separate

bus for accessories with another eLink and not connected to track at all.

Personally, I think your layout as you've described it is modest, the total load from locos and accessories unlikely to exceed that of a single DCC circuit, and the complication

of two buses unwarranted. For a start,the load from firing points is intermittent when they actually fire, so unlikely to have a significant affect on the number of locos that can be actually running st one time.

Notice I haven't mentioned lighting.

It makes sense to run these from a separate circuit as they don't need DCC control via RM, a simple on off switch will suffice. You can run them via decoder ports set to continuous output of course. But you would need to set them up in banks of serial/parallel

arrangements that each doesn't exceed the current available from each port. Then of course you can turn them on and off via RM. These days, all lighting should be LEDs as they are far more efficient. You would have to calculate the total load of the lights

and, if you want to control via RM, decide if a separate circuit is now warranted. Brian Lambert has good coverage of lighting.

Hi Fishy, thanks for your good advise. I had read of others regreting not adding separate bus wiring earlier, linking

this to the fact I am disabled and have to rely on my wife to up end the layout boards I am naturally wanting to minimise this for her as she has rhumatoid and arthritus. My aim is to try get as much underboard as possible done now. My real enjoyment will

then be creating the scenery and of course the railway itself. I have a lot in a small area, so I wont have long rakes of carriages but the way I have designed it, it should give me, hours, weeks, months and years of enjoyment, running trains, setting timetables

between the 3 stations and working on the 2 good yards. It is a ficticous layout with names similar to those that may ring bells. Windymere, Settell and Skiptone railway network. I 'shunt' laugh, its all good fun, hopefully I am on the right 'track'. With

a little help from a friend, thank you.

[PJ_model_trains]

My wife has rhumatoid and osteo arthtitus and is in on a chemo drug. Sorry didn't type this right. She is a good help and is pleased to see me take this up as a hobby (she hasn't seen the visa yet!) As I had serious operation in July and could have died.

 

We help each others needs and each others hobbies.

[Fishmanoz]

Understand your position PJ. To decide if you need a separate bus and the complication of installing it and running it, you need to analyse just what your load is going to be by knowing how many locos you will run at the same time, might you include higher

 

loading sound locos, just how many lights will you need. Then you can make an informed decision.

 

Personally if my load went over 4 Amps, I would first think of running a booster. You have to split your layout into 2 sections to do this, and so split

 

your bus, but you now have 8 Amps available and only 1 controller to worry about. Another advantage is a short in one section only takes out that section, not the entire layout.

 

You already have a start on a layout split via your reversing loop, and

 

so extending to have the separate sections should be easy. And the booster takes over the function of the RLM too.

 

Do a forum search on booster as there was a comprehensive discussion of them earlier this year.

[MetmanUK]

I agree with Fishy.

The layout I am building has a long run so, taking the advice of those with experience I am setting the power up in two regions (ie with two power buses) but connecting them both to the same eLink output. Then, if power becomes an

 

issue in the future I can insert a power booster and connect the seCond power bus to that. Easy!

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Understand your position PJ. To decide if you need a separate bus and the complication of installing it and running it, you need to analyse just what your load is going to be by knowing how many locos you will run at the same

time, might you include higher loading sound locos, just how many lights will you need. Then you can make an informed decision.

Personally if my load went over 4 Amps, I would first think of running a booster. You have to split your layout into

2 sections to do this, and so split your bus, but you now have 8 Amps available and only 1 controller to worry about. Another advantage is a short in one section only takes out that section, not the entire layout.

You already have a start on a layout

split via your reversing loop, and so extending to have the separate sections should be easy. And the booster takes over the function of the RLM too.

Do a forum search on booster as there was a comprehensive discussion of them earlier this year.

Thanks

for your advise, the booster seems the easiest option if needed.

My DCC Bus would be easy to split as I have taken wires, both ways from one corner and added 6 live and six neutral cable connectors on each side side (1 mtr section). The board has one

cross member so in effect there are 8 side faces of 3x1 that they are connected to. It seemed a lot when building it but, with all the droppers and then the DCC decoders for the points they soon get used.

Because there is a short length of wire between

each bank of connectors (which are looped to one another in a block) it is easy at any stage to change direction increasing maybe the smaller isolated section in the RLM/Reverse Loop Module section (but that would mean moving isolated fish plates).

I

guess it is lucky the way my layout has worked out, that the main DCC Bus and the two isolated sections for the RLM with sidings in them is probably 50% each.

Can I therefore wire both these separate DCC Bus' direct to the 1 eLink and if I need more

power later just add a booster? Giving I think 4amp to main DCC and 4amp to RLM DCC.

Another thought regarding power usage, I have 21 point motors to 18 DCC Concept 8-way decoders, each power feed feeding 2 decoders. It would therefore be wise to proportion

the DCC connections equally to each DCC Bus, main or RLM sections, maybe 5 to main DCC and 4 to RLM DCC as the RLM has it's work to do also.

I will search the forum for 'booster' later, I have a lot on today and will be driving down to Birmingham to

the Warley train show at the NEC tomorrow.

[Fishmanoz]

Of course you can connect 2 buses to one eLink because, when you join them with the eLink, they become one bus.

[MetmanUK]

MetmanUK said:

Having received my ADS8 I can confirm the process for successfully configuring in RM.

Firstly, I have connected each of the 4 DCC inputs on the ADS8 to a "points bus" which is currently connected to the Track terminals

on the eLink. Ultimately I will install a separate power supply.

1. Connect the points to the Solenoid (I'm using Peco PL10 motors with accessory switches) terminals.
2. Ensure you have a track plan with points and their associated signals in place.
3.

In RM choose the accessory programming option and the only single switch option (bottom of the list).
4. Assuming you have 8 points and wish to number them 43 to 50 ......
5. Set the ADS8 decoder for point 43 to Learn mode. Each decoder has a switch

you can move with a pen. If you hold the ADS8 with the A side on the left and the B side on the right then the switch is in operate mode when up/away from you and Learn mode when down/nearer to you.
6. Enter port number 43 in the dialog box and click the

download/program button. Accept any messages.
7. Click on the point's signal.
8. Return the decoder to Operate mode.
Repeat 5-8 for the other points.
9. Exit out of the accessory decoder dialog - you will probably have to Cancel but don't worry

about this!
10. Put the track plan in design mode.
11. Right click on point 43, enter 43 in the port box and select the single switch option in the accessory decoder drop down list. You can also change the point polarity on this dialog.
Repeat 11

for points 44-50.

That's it!

Taking @Fishmanoz suggestions into consideration I have set up my second ADS-8 and have simplyfied the configuration to the following :-

Firstly, I have connected each of the 4 DCC inputs on the ADS8

to a "points bus" which is currently connected to the Track terminals on the eLink. Ultimately I will install a separate power/DCC supply.

1. Connect the points to the Solenoid (I'm using Peco PL10 motors with accessory switches) terminals.
2. Ensure

you have a track plan with points and their associated signals in place.
3. Put the track plan in design mode.
Assuming you have 8 points and wish to number them 43 to 50 (I will number them the same as the port number, but you do not have to) ......


4. Right click on point 43's signal icon, enter 43 in the port box and select the single NCE switch option in the accessory decoder drop down list. You can also change the point polarity on this dialog.
5. Repeat 4 for points 44-50.
6. Save the

updated track plan and return to normal mode.
7. Set the ADS8 decoder for point 43 to Learn mode. Each decoder has a switch you can move with a pen. If you hold the ADS8 with the A side on the left and the B side on the right then the switch is in operate

mode when up/away from you and Learn mode when down/nearer to you.
8. Operate the point on the track plan.
9. Return the decoder to Operate mode.
Repeat 7-9 for the other decoders/points.

That's it! There is no need to go in to the accessory

decoder dialog.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't forget that if you install a separate DCC circuit for your points, you have to run them from a separate DCC controller. RM allows for using 2 controllers in its Setup window. It will have to be an Elite or an eLink, not a Select, or you could do

 

it via a booster and use only one controller.

 

The idea of running a separate bus for accessories doesn't appeal to me at all. If I were to run out of power, and I'm not anticipating that I will, I would split my layout into 2 isolated sections and

 

run a booster.

[PJ_model_trains]

MetmanUK said:

Taking @Fishmanoz suggestions into consideration I have set up my second ADS-8 and have simplyfied the configuration to the following :-

Firstly, I have connected each of the 4 DCC inputs on the ADS8 to a "points bus"

which is currently connected to the Track terminals on the eLink. Ultimately I will install a separate power/DCC supply.

1. Connect the points to the Solenoid (I'm using Peco PL10 motors with accessory switches) terminals.
2. Ensure you have a track

plan with points and their associated signals in place.
3. Put the track plan in design mode.
Assuming you have 8 points and wish to number them 43 to 50 (I will number them the same as the port number, but you do not have to) ......
4. Right click

on point 43's signal icon, enter 43 in the port box and select the single NCE switch option in the accessory decoder drop down list. You can also change the point polarity on this dialog.
5. Repeat 4 for points 44-50.
6. Save the updated track plan

and return to normal mode.
7. Set the ADS8 decoder for point 43 to Learn mode. Each decoder has a switch you can move with a pen. If you hold the ADS8 with the A side on the left and the B side on the right then the switch is in operate mode when up/away

from you and Learn mode when down/nearer to you.
8. Operate the point on the track plan.
9. Return the decoder to Operate mode.
Repeat 7-9 for the other decoders/points.

That's it! There is no need to go in to the accessory decoder dialog.

I

am just starting to rebuild my layout and am wiring in the points and decoders for the first time.

I have 2 questions

1 - WIRING THE HORNBY POINT MOTOR TO THE DCC CONCEPTS DECODER

There is power to the rails via a temporary dcc bus
There

are wires from the dcc bus to the DCC concepts ADS8 decoder first port.

Firstly wiring in the Hornby points to the decoder...
Point has 3 wires, red, black and green

Decoder solenoid connections are... L, COM and R

Which Hornby [point

motor wires go to which?

2 - RAILMASTER

I have my full layout designed in RailMaster

I am building the new layout piece by piece so at present only have 4 bends and a set of points

When coding the DCC Concepts decoder can I use

the full layout in Railmaster or do I have to add just the 4 bends and 1 point in another file?

I look forward to your replies. Thank you.

[Fishmanoz]

Black is the Common. L and R go to Red and Green and it doesn't matter which way but do them all the same. The easy way to figure out what you want is to try it when you program your first. If it goes the opposite way to what you are expecting, swap red

 

and green and that will fix it. Then do the rest the same.

 

Schematic question answered by Ray in the other thread.

[PJ_model_trains]

MetmanUK said:

Having received my ADS8 I can confirm the process for successfully configuring in RM.

Firstly, I have connected each of the 4 DCC inputs on the ADS8 to a "points bus" which is currently connected to the Track terminals

on the eLink. Ultimately I will install a separate power supply.

1. Connect the points to the Solenoid (I'm using Peco PL10 motors with accessory switches) terminals.
2. Ensure you have a track plan with points and their associated signals in place.
3.

In RM choose the accessory programming option and the only single switch option (bottom of the list).
4. Assuming you have 8 points and wish to number them 43 to 50 ......
5. Set the ADS8 decoder for point 43 to Learn mode. Each decoder has a switch

you can move with a pen. If you hold the ADS8 with the A side on the left and the B side on the right then the switch is in operate mode when up/away from you and Learn mode when down/nearer to you.
6. Enter port number 43 in the dialog box and click the

download/program button. Accept any messages.
7. Click on the point's signal.
8. Return the decoder to Operate mode.
Repeat 5-8 for the other points.
9. Exit out of the accessory decoder dialog - you will probably have to Cancel but don't worry

about this!
10. Put the track plan in design mode.
11. Right click on point 43, enter 43 in the port box and select the single switch option in the accessory decoder drop down list. You can also change the point polarity on this dialog.
Repeat 11

for points 44-50.

That's it!

Is anyone having problems coding ADS-8 decoders since the Hornby upgrade?

Whilst building my layout, with the help above, I programmed two posts on one of my ADS-8 decoders. It was so easy as MetmanUK

& Fishy said it would be.

Since then I have been building my layout and getting everything ready for final wiring up. I set a temporary DCC Bus on the outside of my layout frame to ensure loco's were running and no derailments etc. All went fine so

in preparation for final fix and set up two wires from the DCC bus to the DCC connections on a ADS-8 de-c0der. I then fit the Red points wire to the R connection and the Green point wire to the L connection.

With point motor fixed to points and points

added to main track and DCC Bus I was ready to go, or so I thought.

Last night I spent 1.5 hours trying different connections on decoder, first two, seciond two, etc but nothing worked. Today I have spent nearly 2 hours and tried a different ADS8 card

and various sections of it. Still no luck?

With all wiring etc in place as discussed above, card in position A to left and B to right I set the learning switch to down. I then altered the points in RailMaster to send the code to the decoder, altered

the learning switch back and tested. Every time no movement at all?

The points are set in RailMaster, Controller A, Port coded 1 to 17. Type of decoder NCE Snap-it single port decoder and direction left or right but, nothing will work?

Has anyone

else had the problem? What is so frustrating is these cards are so easy to set up and I did it on two ports mid December.

Suggestions please, I have been away for Christmas and the New Year, I hoped to have everything complete and running by Sunday

so I can start on the next stage. Best laid plans!

Thank you for any help you can provide.

[St1ngr4y]

Hi PJ,

I'm in Spain at the moment, but from memory ...

There should be three wires from the point to the three terminals collectively labelled 'solenoid' on the decoder - you only mention red and green and terminals L & R.

Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

Hi PJ,
I'm in Spain at the moment, but from memory ...
There should be three wires from the point to the three terminals collectively labelled 'solenoid' on the decoder - you only mention red and green and terminals L

& R.
Ray

Hi, from memory I only added red + and green - when I set up 2 ports in December. The black is the com wire but as far as I am aware it is only needed in DC or analogue with switches.

Correct me if I am wrong (anyone)

I

hope the weather is good for you in Spain St1ngr4y. The forecast here is bad again from tomorrow morning.

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

Hi PJ,
I'm in Spain at the moment, but from memory ...
There should be three wires from the point to the three terminals collectively labelled 'solenoid' on the decoder - you only mention red and green and terminals L

& R.
Ray

I have DCC system with RailMaster 1.54 mid Dec. when I tested by setting up 2 ports. RM 1.55 now

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, all solenoid point motors consist of two coils mounted next to each other on a tube, with an iron core sliding in the tube. It is pushed one way by one coil and the other way by the other and this movement operates the point.

 

Normally, two

 

coils would require 2 connections each but the middle wires from each coil are connected together forming the common. This common, along with the outer positive and negative connections, must all be joined to the accessory decoder for the motor to operate.

 

So you will need to connect the common. The wiring is the same for DC too, except for DC the wires are connected to a switch instead of the decoder. The two wire arrangement you see in the decoder manual Cobalt type motors, not solenoids.

 

This arrangement

 

has nothing to do with the RM version. Programming these decoders has nothing to do with it either.

[PJ_model_trains]

Many thanks for your help. More haste, less speed as they say.

 

I had set a dead line for the under wiring work of Saturday. Silly with an hobby I know but I have been away a week and a half over the Christmas, New year period and have so much to

 

do.

 

Busy day for me tomorrow but it will be a very productive one. I can't wait to play on the top of the boards, I have my replacement steam loco with sound also coming tomorrow.

 

Happy New Year mate ;-)