DCC fitted - decoder types - what to watch for when buying trains 'DCC Fitted'

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi team

 

Can you explain or pass me to a thread or website which explains - DCC FITTED?

 

I understand that DCC Ready means a train has a socket for DCC to be fitted but what options are there for the fitting/upgrading?

 

Many selling locos

 

and say DCC Fitted but I also read somewhere there are different numbers of pins.

 

What are the options when fitting DCC decoders to a DCC ready loco?

 

Are there some DCC fitted that won't work with RailMaster/Hornby system?

 

Are there basic

 

decoders and more advances ones, what will work in what train?

 

I am sure there are many people who know the answers to the above, I also guess there are many with even more questions than those I have put above.

 

Can you explain the various types

 

of DCC decoder installations, the fores and the against and the different level of DCC Fitted decoders. The last thing we all want to do is waste hard earned cash on buying a much liked train with DCC fitted to find we missed out on the bells and whistles

 

of buying one that offered a little more for a little more cash.

[Bulleidboy]

I'm not an expert, but I think most of what you are asking, fairly straightforward. DCC Fitted is as it says, and now with NMRA compliance, I believe any "DCC fitted" loco, will run an any system.

Yes, there are loco's with different pin configuration's,

 

I'm sure all Hornby models, if not fitted, require an 8 pin decoder. The blue-box company use 6,8 and twenty-one pin decoders. Agsain due to NMRA compliance, any decoder with the correct pin configuration should be ok. Having said that, I read a lot on other

 

forums, and people do appear to have problems with all makes of decoder. There are some very cheap (£10) decoders available, which some people will say are rubbish, then you read on another forum about the same product, and there wonderful. With steam loco's

 

other than speed steps, there is not a lot more required, but once you start adding sound and lights etc., you require a decoder that can handle this. As far as installation is concerned, if it's "fitted" you don't have to worry, if it's "Ready" you have to

 

take the loco apart to fit the decoder of your choice. For steam loco's, you can get a direct plug-in decoder with no harness (many decoders have the plug, the wiring harness, which is then attached to the decoder), which will plug straight in, and you don't

 

have to worry about tucking the wire out of the way - there is not a lot of room in most OO locos. Just do your research before buying anything, it's all there in abundance, in fact you can get overwhelmed with the information that is available. Hope this

 

is of some help?

[Rog RJ]

Direct fit decoders can be used in diesel or electric locos as well as steam locos.

 

I always try to buy DCC ready models so that I can fit a decoder of my choice. Manufacturers usually fit a basic decoder which may not have the flexibility that

 

you may want, so choosing your own decoder is IMHO a better option even though it means at least partially dismantling most models to fit your own choice of chip.

 

There is also the problem of some DCC fitted models using a non standard decoder socket

 

and plug assembly which makes it more difficult to fit a different decoder at a later date.

[Bulleidboy]

Sorry, of course a direct plug-in decoder will fit into any loco.

[PJ_model_trains]

bulleidboy said:

I'm not an expert, but I think most of what you are asking, fairly straightforward. DCC Fitted is as it says, and now with NMRA compliance, I believe any "DCC fitted" loco, will run an any system.
Yes, there are loco's

with different pin configuration's, I'm sure all Hornby models, if not fitted, require an 8 pin decoder. The blue-box company use 6,8 and twenty-one pin decoders. Agsain due to NMRA compliance, any decoder with the correct pin configuration should be ok. Having

said that, I read a lot on other forums, and people do appear to have problems with all makes of decoder. There are some very cheap (£10) decoders available, which some people will say are rubbish, then you read on another forum about the same product, and

there wonderful. With steam loco's other than speed steps, there is not a lot more required, but once you start adding sound and lights etc., you require a decoder that can handle this. As far as installation is concerned, if it's "fitted" you don't have to

worry, if it's "Ready" you have to take the loco apart to fit the decoder of your choice. For steam loco's, you can get a direct plug-in decoder with no harness (many decoders have the plug, the wiring harness, which is then attached to the decoder), which

will plug straight in, and you don't have to worry about tucking the wire out of the way - there is not a lot of room in most OO locos. Just do your research before buying anything, it's all there in abundance, in fact you can get overwhelmed with the information

that is available. Hope this is of some help?

Yes it does help thank you

[PJ_model_trains]

Rog (RJ) said:

I always try to buy DCC ready models so that I can fit a decoder of my choice. Manufacturers usually fit a basic decoder which may not have the flexibility that you may want, so choosing your own decoder is IMHO a better option

even though it means at least partially dismantling most models to fit your own choice of chip.

There is also the problem of some DCC fitted models using a non standard decoder socket and plug assembly which makes it more difficult to fit a different

decoder at a later date.

Excellent advice, thank you. I think it is a good idea to buy DCC ready or buy with DCC Fitted that as sound and lighting included. I need to look more into the chip options and of course prices of reputable decoders.

Before

this conversation I would buy DCC Fitted but then realised there seemed more to it than just DCC Fitted. A little like the PC situations, they know customers look more at drive and RAM sizes so make a PC spec look better by including bigger hard drives which

cost little more and not stating clearly they have a slower CPU processor.

I think the best thing for starters is to open up my DCC Fitted, Evening Star loco and have a look at the chip in there and how it is situated.

Thanks again for your

advice.

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, just putting sound decoders aside for now, the differences in decoders come down to power handling, the number of functions and the configuration variables or CVs that you can change.

 

On power, take a look at the specifications for the 2 Hornby

 

decoders. The basic is the R8249 and the better one the R8245 Sapphire. The specs for these are in downloads. The 8249 will only handle 500mA while the Sapphire goes to 1 Amp.

 

Standard type decoders are usually 2 or 4 function. Looking at the 8249,

 

it is a standard 4 function type. The first 2 functions are specially configured to run directional lighting and the other 2 are your choice with smoke being a possibility. Sound decoders have many more functions as they are used for all the different sounds,

 

usually more then 10.

 

For CVs, take a look at http://www.dccwiki.com/CV which will tell you as much as you need to know. As you can see, they do many different things to fine tune your loco. However, again go to the Hornby leaflets and you will see

 

that not many CVs can be adjusted on the 8249. But pretty much the full range can be with the Sapphire.

 

That should give you a good understanding of why the different prices for different decoders, and it gets even more complicated when you consider

 

other brands. So when people say they would rather buy DCC Ready and fit their own, you might understand why now, particularly if the Hornby DCC fitted uses the 8249 and you want to be able to fine tune the speed table.

 

After you absorb that lot, I'm

 

sure you'll have more questions. You'll find standard pin configurations in Brian Lambert too.

[Michael_A]

Just a point though, according to the manufacturer, if you take a locomotive apart to fit a decoder you will immediately invalidate the warranty.

 

I would actually love to see this challenged within the Sale of Goods Act though should the loco fail

 

through 'inherantly' faulty parts or manufacturing.

[idlemarvel]

Michael_A said:

Just a point though, according to the manufacturer, if you take a locomotive apart to fit a decoder you will immediately invalidate the warranty.

I don't think this can apply to DCC ready as by definition you

need to open the loco to fit a decoder, surely. Also they usually provide instructions on how to do it. Even for DCC fitted I would have thought. If a loco is not DCC ready and you have to start soldering then yes I assume you are on your own if something

goes wrong.

[walkingthedog]

Further to the above, taking the body off will not affect the guarantee because it is sometimes necessary to do so to lubricate the loco as per the instruction sheet.

 

Might affect it if you send it back with the motion, motor or suchlike removed

 

because you are unable to reassemble it.

[2e0dtoeric]

If you take the 'lid' off a diesel outline, make sure you put it back on the same way round, they don't always fit t'other way!

[PJ_model_trains]

walkingthedog said:

Further to the above, taking the body off will not affect the guarantee because it is sometimes necessary to do so to lubricate the loco as per the instruction sheet.

Might affect it if you send it back with the

motion, motor or suchlike removed because you are unable to reassemble it.

All interesting comments thanks everyone.

[81F]

bulleidboy said:

Sorry, of course a direct plug-in decoder will fit into any loco.

Are you sure? If I remember correctly the plug in my B'mann Hall is so close to the back of the boiler there is barely enough room for theplug!

[Bulleidboy]

You could be right 81F, I have fitted a number of TCS Plug-in decoders, and they are the same size as the socket. I very recently fitted a Blue Box 6 pin plug-in - no problem. I do accept that in some cases a plug-in may be too large. A while back one

 

of the monthly mags., fitted a Hornby Oliver Cromwell DCC Ready with a plug-in, and certain strengthening ribs in the boiler had to be cut away to enable the plug-in to fit. So there may be the odd loco, both large and small, in which a plug-in will not fit.