Heljan 89121 turntable

[papajulietdelta]

Hi

 

Has anyone got one working with Railmaster?

 

Any advice?

 

Cheers

[Fishmanoz]

Sorry, don't have any info on it as yet, a future research topic for me.

 

Can I suggest you do 2 things:

 

Google it to see if you can find the instructions for it.

 

Email support@rail-master.com and ask them if RM supports it.

[Fishmanoz]

Just took my own advice and you'll find the manual for the turntable at http://heljan.dk/filarkiv/billeder/232011143336.pdf

 

The first thing that you'll notice is that, unlike the Hornby TT, it is designed for DCC use and, from a quick read, actually

 

has addresses for bridge positions, not just the TT itself. That may be a challenge for RM operation. So again, an email to RM Support will be needed.

[papajulietdelta]

Hi

 

I have now installed the 89121 and can report as follows.

 

 

The manual is hard to follow, but eventually I got it to work, using both the Heljan control panel and Railmaster

 

through an Elite.

 

 

The first point I would

 

make, is that the bridge rails are energised with split ring contacts, that reverse the

 

polarity. There is no DCC reversing module included!! Hence, disappointingly, there is a break in power to the rails,

 

when traversing 180 deg, that effects

 

sound locos. (This occurs at the "no track area")

 

 

The unit has two postions (1 & 2) programmed in the default factory settings. Position 2 is opposite position 1.

 

To move these default positions, one must program position 3, where one wants

 

no. 1 to be. Then one deletes position 1,

 

such that 2 becomes 1 and 3 becomes 2. One then deletes 1 again and 2, which was originally 3, becomes 1. One now has

 

a single postion no. 1, where one wants it.

 

 

The manual says that a 180

 

degree position/stop is automatically set, when creating a position/stop. This is not given

 

a unique number.

 

 

To turn the bridge through 180 degrees, one enters the same position no. into the control panel.

 

 

My layout has two entry

 

tracks plus three parking tracks on one side of the table. There are five buffer stops on the opposite

 

side. Having programmed position 1, as above, to one of the entry tracks, I then programmed 2 through to 5 in an anti

 

clockwise direction,

 

for the other tracks.

 

 

The Heljan controller then gives positions 1 to 5 for the bridge. Hence move bridge to position 1, drive on the loco,

 

set controller to move to position 3, bridge moves to shed road, move to position 3 again and drive

 

the turned loco off

 

into the shed. And so forth.

 

 

The manual says that the factory set accessory decoder address is 225 left for position 1, 225 right for position 2, 226 left

 

for position 3, 226 right for position 4, 227 left for

 

position 5, as so on. This did not work for me.

 

 

In Railmaster, Design Layout, I inserted a turntable plus my five roads, in the schematic. Then, I added point control

 

buttons, putting one (right) on road number 1 and the second (left), opposite

 

road 1. I then right clicked one of the

 

buttons and set the decoder address to 225, the type to ESU and clicked the reverse polarity. I repeated this for roads

 

2 through to 5, using decoder addresses of 226 through to 229.

 

 

So to

 

achieve the above movement using RM, I click the right facing button on track 1, the bridge moves to that position.

 

Drive on the loco, then click the right facing arrow on track 3, the bridge turns to the shed position. Now press the left

 

facing

 

arrow on the stop oppposite track 3 and the bridge turns through 180 deg. Finally drive the turned loco into the

 

shed.

 

 

The Elite can also control the turntable using acc addresses 225 through to 229 plus left and right.

 

 

I have

 

turned off default point setting in the ini file so that when starting RM, the table does not move initially all over the place. I shall have to write a program to set the points.

 

 

Note that all tracks need to be connected to the DCC bus plus the

 

control unit. Connection to the control unit needs to

 

ensure that the bridge is at the same polarity as the tracks.

 

 

Be aware that the bridge rails are code 83. I have used Peco code 83 track and inspection pits for my shed area and

 

approach

 

tracks, with a Shinohara transition to connect to my code 100 mainline.

 

 

I hope this detail is useful to somebody. It took me some time to work out and now I am a happy man!!

 

Cheers

[Fishmanoz]

You have me confused PJD. Is it that each output has its own address, or that each pair of 180 degree opposite outputs have the same address and are accessed using the right and left buttons on that address?

[papajulietdelta]

Yes Fish, that's it exactly.

 

Cheers

[Fishmanoz]

Now I gave you alternatives PJD and you replied yes. I'm going to assume the second - the address gives the angle and the left right which direction the bridge is on for that angle.

 

Sounds quite simple and logical once you understand it.

 

I

 

understand why you used an ESU as that automatically gives you 4 addresses for 4 outlets when you program the first. But if you have a fifth you wanted to use, you could do it with a single port decoder like the NCE.

[papajulietdelta]

No. I used ESU for all 5 tracks: 225 through to 229.

 

I think the type of decoder is irrelevant as RM does not actually program it. The track addresses, starting at 225 are pre-programmed in the TT. (According to the Heljan manual, this base address

 

can be changed)

 

Cheers

 

[Mousehole]

Having just started to use Railmaster and eLink, I have begun to look at control of points and turntable. I have had a Heljan 89111 turntable for a couple of years and have successfully driven it from both its own control panel and a Gaugemaster Prodigy

 

controller. There appear to be some differences from the 89121 turntable used by PJD, for example the accessory addresses start at 229 rather than 225.

My turntable has five roads for the engine shed/sidings, one entry road and four short stubs, numbered

 

1 to 10 on the Heljan controller and with addresses 229 to 233. Since these were individual addresses, I thought that use of the NCE single-port option would be fine – but the turntable would not operate.

Since the Heljan manual refers to the ESU controller

 

(as well as Lenz and Uhlenbrock) it seemed reasonable to suppose that using the ESU option would work – and it did. The Heljan manual is also helpful about track assignments since it says that track 1 is 229 red, track 2 is 229 green, track 3 is 230 red and

 

so on and these colours correspond with the buttons on the track plan. I see no problem in invoking the ESU option for all ten tracks, even though it means that three addresses will be ‘wasted’. I have tried with one address assigned to NCE and the others

 

to ESU as suggested by Fishmanoz, but the NCE does not work whilst all the ESU do.

On the question of start-up, it does seem that if the turntable is sent to a number of roads in sequence, it could be chaotic. The solution I tried, which seems to work,

 

is to set a start-up position for only one address and leave the others blank. Thus I have set track 2 of the shed roads as start-up track and the turntable moves to that from wherever it was before. However, the display on the Heljan panel shows tr09!

 

[Lytchettbay]

Hi

 

I am just about to embark on the same exercise so this is very helpful stuff, I am using Railmaster and E-Link.

 

The Heljan manual says the TT needs its own transformer. Have you used a transformer feeding the Heljan Control Box directly

 

or have you used some form of DCC Booster to feed the control box?

 

Be very grateful to hear.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Hi

 

I have now installed the 89121 and can report as follows.

 

 

The manual is hard to follow, but eventually I got

 

it to work, using both the Heljan control panel and Railmaster

 

through an Elite.

 

 

The first point I would make, is that the bridge rails are energised with split ring contacts, that reverse the

 

polarity. There is no DCC reversing

 

module included!! Hence, disappointingly, there is a break in power to the rails,

 

when traversing 180 deg, that effects sound locos. (This occurs at the "no track area")

 

 

The unit has two postions (1 & 2) programmed in the default factory

 

settings. Position 2 is opposite position 1.

 

To move these default positions, one must program position 3, where one wants no. 1 to be. Then one deletes position 1,

 

such that 2 becomes 1 and 3 becomes 2. One then deletes 1 again and 2, which

 

was originally 3, becomes 1. One now has

 

a single postion no. 1, where one wants it.

 

 

The manual says that a 180 degree position/stop is automatically set, when creating a position/stop. This is not given

 

a unique number.

 

 

To

 

turn the bridge through 180 degrees, one enters the same position no. into the control panel.

 

 

My layout has two entry tracks plus three parking tracks on one side of the table. There are five buffer stops on the opposite

 

side. Having programmed

 

position 1, as above, to one of the entry tracks, I then programmed 2 through to 5 in an anti

 

clockwise direction, for the other tracks.

 

 

The Heljan controller then gives positions 1 to 5 for the bridge. Hence move bridge to position 1, drive

 

on the loco,

 

set controller to move to position 3, bridge moves to shed road, move to position 3 again and drive the turned loco off

 

into the shed. And so forth.

 

 

The manual says that the factory set accessory decoder address is 225

 

left for position 1, 225 right for position 2, 226 left

 

for position 3, 226 right for position 4, 227 left for position 5, as so on. This did not work for me.

 

 

In Railmaster, Design Layout, I inserted a turntable plus my five roads, in the

 

schematic. Then, I added point control

 

buttons, putting one (right) on road number 1 and the second (left), opposite road 1. I then right clicked one of the

 

buttons and set the decoder address to 225, the type to ESU and clicked the reverse

 

polarity. I repeated this for roads

 

2 through to 5, using decoder addresses of 226 through to 229.

 

 

So to achieve the above movement using RM, I click the right facing button on track 1, the bridge moves to that position.

 

Drive on

 

the loco, then click the right facing arrow on track 3, the bridge turns to the shed position. Now press the left

 

facing arrow on the stop oppposite track 3 and the bridge turns through 180 deg. Finally drive the turned loco into the

 

shed.

 

 

The

 

Elite can also control the turntable using acc addresses 225 through to 229 plus left and right.

 

 

I have turned off default point setting in the ini file so that when starting RM, the table does not move initially all over the place. I shall have

 

to write a program to set the points.

 

 

Note that all tracks need to be connected to the DCC bus plus the control unit. Connection to the control unit needs to

 

ensure that the bridge is at the same polarity as the tracks.

 

 

Be aware

 

that the bridge rails are code 83. I have used Peco code 83 track and inspection pits for my shed area and

 

approach tracks, with a Shinohara transition to connect to my code 100 mainline.

 

 

I hope this detail is useful to somebody. It took

 

me some time to work out and now I am a happy man!!

 

Cheers[/reply]

[Mousehole]

[reply]Lytchettbay said:

 

Hi

 

I am just about to embark on the same exercise so this is very helpful stuff, I am using Railmaster and E-Link.

 

The Heljan manual says the TT needs its own transformer. Have you used a transformer feeding

 

the Heljan Control Box directly or have you used some form of DCC Booster to feed the control box?

 

Be very grateful to hear.

 

Thanks

 

[Mousehole]

I have made the connection according to the second diagram in the manual, with just one connection to the eLink controller. This is powered by a 4A supply (I had to get this because as mentioned several times in this forum, reverse-loop modules cause short

 

circuits with the original 1A supply) and since the spec for the turntable quotes a current consumption of only 110mA there should be no need for a booster. I think that when the manual says that the turntable needs its own transformer it’s referring to DC

 

operation.

 

As a correction to my previous post on this topic, I had hoped that not setting start-up positions on most roads would work, whilst in fact they simply default to left. This does not seem to be a problem when starting RM – the turntable settles

 

at either road 2 or road 3, although the Heljan controller shows tr09.

 

 

[Pete172]

Mousehole said:

I have made the connection according to the second diagram in the manual, with just one connection to the eLink controller. This is powered by a 4A supply (I had to get this because as mentioned several times in this forum,

reverse-loop modules cause short circuits with the original 1A supply) and since the spec for the turntable quotes a current consumption of only 110mA there should be no need for a booster. I think that when the manual says that the turntable needs its own

transformer it’s referring to DC operation.

As a correction to my previous post on this topic, I had hoped that not setting start-up positions on most roads would work, whilst in fact they simply default to left. This does not seem to be a problem when

starting RM – the turntable settles at either road 2 or road 3, although the Heljan controller shows tr09.

Hi,
I may get one of these TTs, but can you confirm if it can be powered from the DCC Bus into the TT control unit ??, I am using

Elite and Railmaster.
Also, can you recommend this TT, as it is expensive !
Thanks,

[Fishmanoz]

Mousehole said:

[reply]Lytchettbay said:

The Heljan manual says the TT needs its own transformer. Have you used a transformer feeding the Heljan Control Box directly or have you used some form of DCC Booster to feed the control box?

Before

commenting on the TT, can I just provide some advice to make your posts clearer for everyone. When you make your post by first hitting Reply to an existing post, as I am doing now, you will notice that the original content you are given has reply in square

brackets at its start and end. If you leave those there and type your content before the first one or after the last, the original post displays in a separate window in your reply, just as has happened here. If you remove either of them or type between them,

your content runs into the previous post and it is hard to tell what you said and what the previous person said.

Now on the TT, I too can confirm that figure 3 in the manual makes it quite clear that only your DCC track connection is needed to run

the TT on DCC. And it draws less current then a loco in operation so will not trouble your system if it has the 4 Amp transformer and should also work if you only have the 1 Amp.

From other content I have read, this TT has a good reputation and is

simple to operate once set up. Previous posts on page 1 of this thread tell you how to go about it.

If you don't want to go to this expense, the Hornby TT is a viable DCC alternative. However, it is not designed for DCC and some changes need to be

made. A search on turntable in these forums will bring up a lot of content on how to go about it. Check it out because there are definitely better ways then the suggestion Hornby makes in its instructions with the TT.

[papajulietdelta]

Confirm, no separate transformer required. Powered from track bus.

 

I am still very happy with my installation.

 

Cheers

[Pete172]

papajulietdelta said:

Confirm, no separate transformer required. Powered from track bus.

I am still very happy with my installation.

Cheers

Mine arrives today !!

[Pete172]

Hi All,

The Heljan instructions state / show on page 3 & 5 of the instructions, that when using DCC, the control box should be connected to the Booster Output of your DCC control unit (Hornby Elite in my case), I can't see any reference to powering the Heljan control box from the DCC Bus ! , so my question is has anyone tried using the Booster Output ? , (I wonder why Heljan don't mention the BCC Bus ??)..

 

I have now cut the hole in my board, and have reached the stage of wiring it up, BUT I don't want to blow the unit or make a mistake, as it's an expensive bit of kit....

Any help with my understanding of the above will be most welcome...!

Many thanks..

 

 

[Graskie]

Let's just hope you'll be able to go round and round in circles in the end, Pete (sorry, no serious information or advice to offer)!

[Fishmanoz]

Pete, where the instructions say connection to the booster output, this means connection to the DCC output, not some other auxiliary output. So you are quite safe in following the method shown on page 1 of this thread to program and operate your TT. 

[Pete172]

Hi Fishmanoz,

Many thanks for your reply, I will connect the control box to the DCC bus  !

I don't think the Heljan instructions are very good, they could have made this clear instead of confusing matters by stating use the DCC booster output !! But I wonder if it actually would work using the Elite booster output ? what's the difference?

 

[poliss]

In some countries, such as the USA, the DCC controller is called a 'booster'.

Have you seen their video showing how to connect the TT? Google 'heljan dcc tt' and you should find it.

[Pete172]

Hi Poliss,

Thanks, yes, I've seen the video and will wire mine for DCC accordingly..

I thought the controller was called a command station or throttle in the US ? what on earth is it boosting ?

The supplied instructions say no screws & washers are supplied, therefore I spent ages looking for suitable screws, and making wooden blocks to act as spacing washers to suit the screws that I eventually sourced. However tonight I discovered a little pack of the correct screws & washers located in a corner of the polystyrene packaging !, so if they had got the instructions right, I could have saved lots of time & effort.

These instructions are challenging.....