points indicator in passing loop

[mallone]

Hi...I have a passing loop with a left and right point. They work fine together on the same port number but the blue direction indicators don't pair up although the points do.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

[Fishmanoz]

Hi mallone, welcome to the forums. I'm going to assume it's not just the direction indicator, it's the highlighted point button too, meaning the point is not changing on your schematic at all? Have you given both points on the loop the same point number?

[mallone]

Fishmanoz said:

Hi mallone, welcome to the forums. I'm going to assume it's not just the direction indicator, it's the highlighted point button too, meaning the point is not changing on your schematic at all? Have you given both points on

the loop the same point number?

[mallone]

Hi Fishmanoz...thanks for you quick reply. That's right about the point button as well. Both points have been given the same number and they both activate together.

[Fishmanoz]

So I take it you can throw both points by clicking on either point's button, but the other point doesn't show the change?

[St1ngr4y]

When you think about it, it can never work, because whichever point you click, say, left, the other point will show left too. That is the signal which is sent over the DCC to the decoder - switch port nn to the left.

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Good thinking Ray. You can of course make the points themselves switch ok simply by having the wires swapped compared to each other in the port, if that makes any sense.

 

Should be a new feature to solve it in the schematic?

[St1ngr4y]

I think Mallone must have one of the points wired to the decoder the "wrong way" for them to behave the way he wants them to.

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Must have.

 

I've added this to desirable features by the way.

[mallone]

St1ngr4y said:

I think Mallone must have one of the points wired to the decoder the "wrong way" for them to behave the way he wants them to.
Ray

[mallone]

Hi and thanks all for your input.

I have tried reversing the wiring to one point motor but to no avail. I have many passing loops on my layout which operate and display perfectly, both having the same port address.

I think after much head scratching

 

I'm going to completely rewire these two points to another port and see if that solves the problem.

Many thanks for ever bodies input.

John.

[man4805star]

I have the same problem no matter what i Did the blue point marker does not match one of the points direction .in the end i had to put each point on a seperate decoder port

[geochoice]

Not sure how or why but I have points as crossovers and have used the same decoder to operate as a pair, now when I click either button both points throw and the blue direction arrow also behaves !! Must be a fluke because things don't normally do this

 

for me.

[Fishmanoz]

Geo, there isn't a problem in a crossover as both points throw in the same direction, either both left, or both right and both straight ahead. In a passing loop, one is left and the other is right, or they are both straight ahead.

 

The one left/one

 

right is the problem with both on the same decoder port and the wiring swapped. There is no way of showing this in RM currently. It can only show the crossover arrangement so one point always shows incorrectly on the loop. An upgrade to RM is needed to allow

 

the point to be set up reversed when the wiring is reversed.

[geochoice]

Aha

[St1ngr4y]

Hi...I have a passing loop with a left and right point. They work fine together on the same port number but the blue direction indicators don't pair up although the points do.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

How many of you remember this topic? With the Other Points/Signals configuration available for a point, I think I know a way of getting the blue/gray route indicators on the points to show correctly.

1. Leave the hard wiring of the points as it is so that physically they both switch the required way.

2. Change the address of one of the points forming the passing loop in the Layout Diagram to an unused value.

Let us assume that the original address of the points is 23 and the new unused address given to the second point is 223.

3. In the Other Points/Signals configuration of point 23, put in two entries -

left change point 223 right

right change point 223 left

4. In the Other Points/Signals configuration of point 223, put in two entries -

left change point 23 right

right change point 23 left

Although I haven't tried it, I'm fairly confident that this will cause the blue/gray routes indicators on these points to reflect the actual settings of both points, IF they are operated by clicking the red/green buttons of either point on the Layout Diagram. However, if the points are operated by programs, then the programs would have to be amended to change point 223 in harmony with point 23. This is because the Other Point/Signals configurations are ignored when the point is changed by a program.

Ray

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

Bar far the simplest solution to this us to swap the red and green point wires around, going into the accessory decoder.

 

Remember also that the point motor may have been mounted on one or other side of the point itself on the baseboard and this will also reverse the switching. And finally, there is a "reverse polarity" function within RailMaster which allows you to virtually swap the wires around.

 

Presumably you have both points wired into the same decoder port, in which case, just swap the wires around for point points until they both match RailMaster's graphics.

[OssieB]

Bar far the simplest solution to this us to swap the red and green point wires around, going into the accessory decoder. Remember also that the point motor may have been mounted on one or other side of the point itself on the baseboard and this will also reverse the switching. And finally, there is a "reverse polarity" function within RailMaster which allows you to virtually swap the wires around. Presumably you have both points wired into the same decoder port, in which case, just swap the wires around for point points until they both match RailMaster's graphics.

I had this problem a year ago when initially setting up RM for my layout. I tried several combinations as you suggest above, but I still could not get the correct pictorial representation of the route indicator lines, even using your suggestion of using the "reverse polarity" virtual function. My way round the this was on the RM layout to use a LH point at the right hand end of the loop, instead of a RH point. This then gave a correct pictorial position of the route indicator and buttons the correct side of the track. A picture of this is below.

/media/tinymce_upload/ScreenHunter_09_Jan._12_14_.46_.jpg

I will try Ray's suggested method later to see if it works, but it may as he says provide complications in programmes.

BarryO

[St1ngr4y]

Bar far the simplest solution to this us to swap the red and green point wires around, going into the accessory decoder. Remember also that the point motor may have been mounted on one or other side of the point itself on the baseboard and this will also reverse the switching. And finally, there is a "reverse polarity" function within RailMaster which allows you to virtually swap the wires around. Presumably you have both points wired into the same decoder port, in which case, just swap the wires around for point points until they both match RailMaster's graphics.

Good afternoon HRMS,

With respect, I must strongly disagree. This has nothing to do with wiring, or reverse polarity. It is simply the way in which the points blue/gray indicators are shown on the Track Diagram. This image shows two examples:-

/media/tinymce_upload/Passing_Loops.png

In the top passing loop, both points are physically connected to port 151, but there is no way that you can get the blue/gray indicators to point either BOTH straight ahead, or BOTH around the loop. They either both point LEFT or both point RIGHT.

The second shows where, for example, BOTH points are physically wired to port 161 in such a way that when the port is fired, the points will be either both ahead or both around the loop. The right hand point, however, on the track diagram is configured as port 162. Each of the points 161 and 162 on this setup are configured to set the "other" point to the opposite. In hindsight, I should have picked an address other than 162, because this will belong to the same R8247 as 161. But the point is that 162 is an address which doesn't actually fire a point directly - only via it's "Other point/signal" firing of 161.

 

Ray

[OssieB]

Good afternoon HRMS,

With respect, I must strongly disagree. This has nothing to do with wiring, or reverse polarity. It is simply the way in which the points blue/gray indicators are shown on the Track Diagram. This image shows two examples:-

/media/tinymce_upload/Passing_Loops.png

In the top passing loop, both points are physically connected to port 151, but there is no way that you can get the blue/gray indicators to point either BOTH straight ahead, or BOTH around the loop. They either both point LEFT or both point RIGHT.

The second shows where, for example, BOTH points are physically wired to port 161 in such a way that when the port is fired, the points will be either both ahead or both around the loop. The right hand point, however, on the track diagram is configured as port 162. Each of the points 161 and 162 on this setup are configured to set the "other" point to the opposite. In hindsight, I should have picked an address other than 162, because this will belong to the same R8247 as 161. But the point is that 162 is an address which doesn't actually fire a point directly - only via it's "Other point/signal" firing of 161.

 

Ray

Hi Ray ,

I fully agree with you. However, I am unable to carry out your suggestion on giving one point a ficticous number and then using "Other point/signal" facility as I only have standard RM and not RM Pro.

BarryO

[St1ngr4y]

Ooops!! Sorry, Barry, I keep forgetting what's in the ProPack and what's not...

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

@OssieB

 

Barry,

Having thought about it overnight, you could still use the technique of giving one of the points a "fictitious" address. Then clicking on its red/green buttons or switching it in a program, will do no more than adjust the blue/grey route indicator on the point. I know it's an extra button to click, but at least this way you can get the Track Diagram to relect the actual points settings.

Ray

[OssieB]

@OssieB

 

Barry,

Having thought about it overnight, you could still use the technique of giving one of the points a "fictitious" address. Then clicking on its red/green buttons or switching it in a program, will do no more than adjust the blue/grey route indicator on the point. I know it's an extra button to click, but at least this way you can get the Track Diagram to relect the actual points settings.

Ray

Ray,

Thank you for your overnight thought. I will give it a try and I can see it will be easy to deal with within a programme. However, when running with normal control, which I do more of at te moment, I will not have the facility to use the buttons on either point for them to change and will have click on both to be pictorily correct on the mimic. I therefore feel that my backward facing point on the mimic may still be my preferred way round, if better solution is not forthcoming from HRMS in a future update.

Barry

[NormanQ4]

3 Months have now passed since this matter was raised.

Does anyone know if it has been properly resolved by HRMS in the recent update?

[RDS]

3 Months have now passed since this matter was raised.

Does anyone know if it has been properly resolved by HRMS in the recent update?

No it hasn't because I had only tried it with the latest version.  I am just about to try Ray's solution of having a ficticious point, which seems ideal to me.