Computer Screen size

[Fishmanoz]

Forgot to mention the 24" is the same 1920x1200 resolution. Maximised, RM will not fill this screen.

[Graskie]

I think I'll get my PJs on. This is certainly a bit mixed, isn't it? Just checked my notebook screen definition and it's set at its recommended maximum of 1366 x 768. So it looks as if it all probably does come down to that, although mine is also widescreen.

 

It does look to me, PJ, that you probably could squeeze in a second column, effected as Fishy says. Does it matter if you can't then see quite all of your layout plan? You can always scroll it, if necessary. I have a feeling Hornby may be improving this area

 

of display anyway. I also would be pleased if they reduced the size of the small loco boxes to the right, but I would also like to see them allow for layered large boxes because you can only show one at the moment and they show more functions if you're using

 

sound, for instance.

[Raven_Electric]

Hi Fishmanoz

 

There are a lot of variables at play here, too many to pin down but here are some pointers and some distinctions to make. To reduce complication a bit I assume here you have the monitor hardware setup to display the highest resolution

 

that each monitor is

capable of - the "Display" resolution.

 

The "Screen" resolution is what you have setup in the OS display software utility and can be smaller or larger than the actual scan the monitor is capable of. Smaller and there will be less

 

bigger stuff to see, higher and not advised because OS window taskbars and screen/window gadgets could be off your monitor if the synch isn't locked.

 

Unfortunately there is further complication. You can also vary the default size fonts and windows etc

 

are drawn at relative to the resolution, make them high resolution in a small "Screen" and you won't see much (an example is you OS opening in VGA mode) and there is a further resolution often known as the console area on most OS. This can be considerably

 

bigger than the max resolution of your monitor and is usually kept much bigger than the "screen" (output) resolution set in your OS display utility, This allows you to slide windows off the side of your screen The images are still being "drawn" but not transferred

 

to the raster.

 

Next, if you allow your graphics card's software to control the display it can overlay the OS resolution on another one too! Also if you run 2 or more monitors they DO NOT have to be capable of the same highest resolution or even refresh

 

rate as decent graphics card software can adjust for that. This is to allow you to use monitors supporting different maximum resolutions at the same time on different sized monitors without windows and words being different sizes on each monitor or one monitor

 

having to output a lower res fuzzier picture - clever stuff.

 

Finally say your two monitors are 1920 x 1200 each. The graphics card sofware can "span" a 3840x1200 display across both. (Same when they are NOT the same size and resolutions). BUT as I mention

 

above this isn't the best way because if they are different sizes, say 14" and 24" the image size will change. The other way is to handle this in software. Nvidia for instance use their proprietory "DualView" allowing the two monitors to be different sizes

 

and resolutions and still let you slide windows and your pointer across without any change in size (if your set it up that way).

 

On multi-monitor displays there are other issues like where display windows, child windows and gadgets open (and users can

 

set this up for each window in every application). Colour correction etc and a host of other settings are available in your OS and graphics software. I use three monitors to give me 2 x 2560x1440 + 1 x 2560x1600 with all three adjusted so provide a seamless

 

"desktop" with windows dragged across the three remaining the same size and colour. I keep one for my mail and browser etc windows to all open on it and I have all other applications use the other two when they open windows etc. I started with flickering interlaced

 

140 line monochrome displays so lots of high frequency dots in millions of colours are a bit of thing with me!

 

Now all of this sensibly requires that applications programmers really should follow OS guidelines AND let the OS handle everything INCLUDING

 

which windows have "focus" and how they display and are handled on screen and scrolled etc. An example would be maximising a window which SHOULD "lock" to the currently set full size of one one or all monitors if the user has things setup that way. ALL I can

 

say here is that some don't perform to spec for quite a few reasons, but you have a partial "fix" available to you by opening the OS display utility AND the graphics card software and playing about until you have the display real estate the way you want it.

 

The OS utility seems to kick the Graphics software setting at first but it doesn't really, get one right and then adjust the other to suit. You need to watch which monitor you set up as "primary" and so on and then adjust the resolutions in software to get

 

what you want displayed if you are using monitors with different sizes and resolutions but a tip is to ALWAYS set the monitors at their MAXIMUM resolution and default colour settings etc or the variables available to you just do your head in! So setup colour

 

correction, rate and gamma etc in software (the spec files are readily downloaded) so they are the same or looking from one to another monitor starts to become uncomfortable.

 

Only AFTER you have all that right worry about messing around with things

 

to get applications displaying as you want. Suffice to say you can get RailMaster to provide all the real estate space you need. I've just dragged the RailMaster window to 5120 x 1440, (it appears to read the max screen size the OS utility has set but I haven't

 

bothered to make changes to check this). So plenty of room for big plans and lots of throttles.

 

Oh, and two final things, keep saving all your display setting changes with different profile names in case you are not happy with any change you have made

 

after a bit. Then you can just load a previous profile you liked as it takes a fair while to get all this right. AMD, Nvidia etc all have facilities to save profiles easily - handy too if you hook up different setups from time to time. And diagonal points

 

are surely not enough, I would have thought rotatable by degree points are needed if the plan is to reflect what can be done with the track. After all REAL displays don't cover a whole railway that mainly has to go round and round!

 

 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi

 

Thaks for confirming Fishy that you can only see 4 loco's, I think, I am not sure that Hornby say 'up to' 5 as your screen resolution or aspect size can help/hinder the amount seen.

 

As mentioned I can only see 3 locos and I find it very

 

frustrating.

 

Putting all the stuff to one side mentioned by Raven Electric, which is excellent information I must say, I would have though HRMS, knowing the variations, would consider the items I listed and show in the link

 

http://s746.photobucket.com/user/model-trains/media/RailMaster_suggestions_zpsfae88224.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0

 

 

 

Toggle image right to see my actual screen view (3 locos)

and back to see what I have suggested for RM to help increase the working area and number of locos sen in any resolution/viewing format.

 

- smaller icons at top (makes larger working

 

area)

- smaller boxes for locos on right (makes larger working area)

- facility to minimise locos not in use but still see them and see more (see more locos)

- Program box (Reset points to start) reduced to size of 50% on opposite side (makes larger

 

working area and in proportion to % box in opposite corner)

- 'All Stop' button moved to middle bar at bottom (also makes more room for loco list - see more locos)

 

None of the above would be hard to change

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

This item

 

- Program box (Reset points to start) reduced to size of 50% on opposite side (makes larger working area and in proportion to % box in opposite corner)

 

Should read

 

- Program box (Reset points to start) reduced to size of,

 

percent viewed box, on opposite side of screen (makes larger working area and in proportion to % box in opposite corner)

[Fishmanoz]

We seem to now be indulging ourselves without answering John's question.

 

My answer is anything from a small netbook screen up will work, but the higher the resolution on the screen,the more you will be able to see and use comfortably.

[PJ_model_trains]

1920x1080 isn't low res.

 

800x600 is low res

 

I can only see 3 locos with 1920x1080

[Graskie]

Are you saying, PJ, that you can't get 2 columns by following Fishy's instructions on how to do that?

[PJ_model_trains]

I can get 2 columns yes that is easy but only 2 columns of 3 loco's

 

Just to confirm discussion earlier PDF for RM does say 'up to' and 'does' refer to screen resolution.

 

It states:

View up to ten loco controllers on the screen at the same

 

time for control,

dependant on screen resolution.

 

I would hate to cope with 192 loco's like this. Minimising unused loco's just showing loco name or name and code would make more trains visible and easier to see.

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

RailMaster will allow you to see up to 10 loco controllers on a screen of resolution 1920X1200, that is two columns of five controllers each, assuming RailMaster is maximised. You can also scroll through up to 192 controllers in two columns on any size

 

screen.

 

One factor that has not yet been mentioned in this thread, which affects the number of loco controllers visible, is the magnification factor. It is possible on high resolution screens to tell Windows to make everything appear larger and some

 

PCs (mostly notebooks) have this enabled by default (125% magnification). Generally, for 100% magnification, that is when the operating system is using the full resolution of the attached monitor, the DPI (dots per inch) is 96. These settings can be viewed

 

within the graphics properties.

 

More modern, ultra high resolution monitors, for example with resolutions of 2560x1440 will allow you to see almost 12 loco controllers.

 

[Graskie]

Yes, there's certainly room for improvement, PJ, but why aren't you setting 2 columns, which would be better than just a single one, for the time being? And have you split your locos into groups such as regions, in which case, if you call one of those

 

up, you will only get that smaller group of locos?

[PJ_model_trains]

HornbyRailMasterSupport said:

RailMaster will allow you to see up to 10 loco controllers on a screen of resolution 1920X1200, that is two columns of five controllers each, assuming RailMaster is maximised. You can also scroll through up to

192 controllers in two columns on any size screen.

One factor that has not yet been mentioned in this thread, which affects the number of loco controllers visible, is the magnification factor. It is possible on high resolution screens to tell Windows

to make everything appear larger and some PCs (mostly notebooks) have this enabled by default (125% magnification). Generally, for 100% magnification, that is when the operating system is using the full resolution of the attached monitor, the DPI (dots per

inch) is 96. These settings can be viewed within the graphics properties.

More modern, ultra high resolution monitors, for example with resolutions of 2560x1440 will allow you to see almost 12 loco controllers.

Hello HRMS, many thanks

for your input, we are most grateful.

I have the 100% with the option of 125% but this is obviously the wrong way. I can only see 2 loco's on 125% and 3 on 100% using one column.

I appreciate I can use two columns but this does restrict me from

seeing all the layout. Although I haven't got signals yet, I will have in time (hopefully Hornby will) which means adding some outside the layout and therefore some may be hidden unless I move the layout, when you are running numerous loco's you don't really

want to have to do this.

I do hope you find some of the suggestions in the image I supplied earlier helpful and see why they have been suggested. I consider my 8 x 4'6" humble layout to be small, so those with larger layouts also need extra layout working

area.

I have for now set up a series of groups to get me round the one column problem, I have lots of groups now and only 3 loco's in each group for easy access from the drop down menu.

Again we thank you for your input, it gives us confident

you are watching what is going on and hopefully soon we will have an updated version of RM, and following that the new major update and loco detection.

What you are doing is good, the software is going to be excellent.

Thank you

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Graskie said:

Yes, there's certainly room for improvement, PJ, but why aren't you setting 2 columns, which would be better than just a single one, for the time being? And have you split your locos into groups such as regions, in which case,

if you call one of those up, you will only get that smaller group of locos?

Hi Graskie

See my note above. If I have two columns I cannot see all my layout at 50%, when I add signals later, outside the layout it means I will see less.

I really do see the need for a larger working area, I am sure HRMS will also and what was on the image are small changes within the software but, will make a big difference.

I have got round the problem by creating 'Locomotive Groups' Steam Express,

Steam Branch, Diesel Express, Diesel Goods, Sprinters, etc. There is obviously lots of ways we can categories them, this works for now.

there are only 3 locos in each group so I still have the one column and largest working layout area I can. The drop

down category menu's are much faster than scrolling through the list which will only get worse as we buy more and more trains. I am a long way off the amount you have but you know what it's like Graskie, we just keep buying. The must ava syndrome ;-)

PJ

[gilbo2]

Fishmanoz said:

We seem to now be indulging ourselves without answering John's question.

Sadly this seems to be a regular occurrence these days on this forum and has put me off using it, which is a great shame. Things

don't always have to be made so complicated and technical, certainly not the Hornby ethos which I grew up with.

My response to Johnde would be to not go any smaller in physical size than the screen you use for everyday computing tasks, e.g. my laptop

is 13" and causes me eye strain if I go smaller. To overcome blocking the view of the layout I upgraded to a Lenovo convertible which allows you to use it as a "flat" touch-screen tablet or can be titled slightly. Perfect for RM and a wow factor for visitors

:-)

[gilbo2]

..or even tilted slightly!

[PJ_model_trains]

dgilbert2 said:

Sadly this seems to be a regular occurrence these days on this forum and has put me off using it, which is a great shame. Things don't always have to be made so complicated and technical, certainly not the Hornby ethos which

I grew up with.

My response to Johnde would be to not go any smaller in physical size than the screen you use for everyday computing tasks, e.g. my laptop is 13" and causes me eye strain if I go smaller. To overcome blocking the view of the layout I

upgraded to a Lenovo convertible which allows you to use it as a "flat" touch-screen tablet or can be titled slightly. Perfect for RM and a wow factor for visitors :-)

The question Johnde asked was, what is the smallest screen size.

We

could refer to a mobile phone as RM can be controlled from one providing it is installed in a computer or laptop first.

Smallest screen size can very as discussed, smallest overall or smallest in height or width?

That was why the additional comments

were added and thanks to HRMS and Raven Electric for going further to clarify this.

We are all different, we may read something different to another person but, as any examiner would confirm, everyone would answer a question a different way based on

how they read it and sometimes their experiences and knowledge.

Some people are happy with one word answers, to them things are black and white, others on the other hand feel to better explain why a brush has a special shaped handle or bristle they

have to explain in a little more detail and sometimes use examples. Both options are correct but the black and white response can annoy others that prefer to give more detail and visa versa.

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

dgilbert2 said:

Sadly this seems to be a regular occurrence these days on this forum and has put me off using it, which is a great shame. Things don't always have to be made so complicated and technical, certainly not the Hornby ethos which

I grew up with.

My response to Johnde would be to not go any smaller in physical size than the screen you use for everyday computing tasks, e.g. my laptop is 13" and causes me eye strain if I go smaller. To overcome blocking the view of the layout I

upgraded to a Lenovo convertible which allows you to use it as a "flat" touch-screen tablet or can be tilted slightly. Perfect for RM and a wow factor for visitors :-)

Good answer dg, succinct, answers the question and relates to personal experience.

I agree too.

[Graskie]

I must admit, I'd thought of that possibility. I could then sling it under the front edge of my layout, to join my sloping Elite in that position.

[Johnde]

dgilbert2 said:

Sadly this seems to be a regular occurrence these days on this forum and has put me off using it, which is a great shame. Things don't always have to be made so complicated and technical, certainly not the Hornby ethos which

I grew up with.

My response to Johnde would be to not go any smaller in physical size than the screen you use for everyday computing tasks, e.g. my laptop is 13" and causes me eye strain if I go smaller. To overcome blocking the view of the layout I

upgraded to a Lenovo convertible which allows you to use it as a "flat" touch-screen tablet or can be titled slightly. Perfect for RM and a wow factor for visitors :-)
Thanks for your comments, have looked at the Lenovo but am aware that HP are about to

release a machine where there screen folds back through 360deg making it like a tablet, that may be more practical. We shall see.

[gilbo2]

Johnde said:

Thanks for your comments, have looked at the Lenovo but am aware that HP are about to release a machine where there screen folds back through 360deg making it like a tablet, that may be more practical. We shall see.

I

have the Lenovo Yoga convertible which has the same 360 degree screen movement. Really pleased and it shows off Railmaster to its full touch screen capability.

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ_model_trains said:

I can get 2 columns yes that is easy but only 2 columns of 3 loco's

Just to confirm discussion earlier PDF for RM does say 'up to' and 'does' refer to screen resolution.

It states:
View up to ten loco

controllers on the screen at the same time for control,
dependent on screen resolution.

I would hate to cope with 192 loco's like this. Minimising unused loco's just showing loco name or name and code would make more trains visible and easier to

see.

I know there have been comments regarding this thread going off topic and there is a lot of stuff in here that may not be related to the first question but, the item I have discussed relates to screen size, larger screen size see more,

smaller screen size see less (screen size/resolution)

I add these details to the initial one above for future reference on the forum so that we know what HRMS says regarding this issue...

To find a faster way to access my trains from the list

I placed them in groups of 3's, Steam locos, Diesel loco's, DMU's etc. This seemed good as I could click Steam from the drop down menu, set the train settings, sound and speed and away it goes. I then choose diesel from the drop down menu and set a diesel

loco going, I may them go to the DMU's and set one of them running and then I want to go back to my steam loco so choose it from the drop down list.

The problem then being that the speed bar for the loco running may be at say 60mph but the slider is

at the bottom eg 0mph and when I move it the train slows down and speeds up which is not wanted. The speed control is not transferred from setting up to going back to the ground.

HRMS have replied as follows...

We would advise you perhaps to

purchase a touch-screen Full HD+ (1920x1200) monitor. This way not only will you be able to see either 5 or 10 controllers on-screen, depending on the your desired setting, but you can also scroll through the list much more easily using a finger than using

a mouse, just by dragging the entire locos list up or down. You do not need to use the small Windows scroll bar to the right. These monitors are coming down in cost all the time.

Notwithstanding the above, the groups settings are not designed to be

changed during the middle of operating a layout. They are, in effect, starting groups which set up the locos you will be using for a session. As explained in the guide, this is to allow you to set different groups of locos you will have in a session on your

layout. This is why it doesn't remember the settings from the previous group.

This issue has never been raised before and since the solution is to either have a larger monitor or use two columns of controllers this is not something that will be a priority

to add to RailMaster as a feature in the near future.

I have written back to HRMS and asked them to consider the request previously noted for RM improvements which is to reduce icon sizes to increase layout area, move emergency stop button and make

loco's boxes minimisable so we can see more in our list of locos. As shown previously in the link below, unless you are only going to use loco's in the group you have set up and not another groups are a waste of time.

http://s746.photobucket.com/user/model-trains/media/RailMaster_suggestions_zpsfae88224.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0

Toggle

to the right then back again to see RM actual and RM proposed

[Raven_Electric]

The size of the display has nothing to do with what you see on the screen and a large monitor may just sit nicely behind or hung down in front of your railway. It isn't the size that matters, the resolution of the display IS everything. In a nutshell,

 

26" 1024 x 786 bad, 21" 1920 x 1080 good.

 

Since 2007 the computer and TV industry has pretty much standardised on a base 1920 x 1080 resolution. I've just done a quick search on a certain auction site and used and refurbished 1920 x 1080 monitors from

 

quality manufacturers are available in large numbers up to 27", many for instant purchase and delivery for far less the £50. A quick search elsewhere will fins them even cheaper.

 

Asking Hornby to squash RailMaster down to fit smaller, legacy resolutions

 

cannot be the way forward. The whole point of the thing IS that you want lots on screen at the same time and ONLY higher resolutions provides that. A great experience is easily available for half the price of a decent loco. In 2014 NO software provider is

 

going to sacrifice functionality in products designed for standard resolution displays to provide for much lower resolution legacy displays that is not only not how the world works but it isn't what the market wants either.

 

For those prepared to fork

 

out more there are, as Hornby suggests, touch screens and my own preference, higher resolutions than 1080p readily available. And computers come so cheap these days why not pick up a cheap used dedicated desktop to stand under the layout for just a few quid?

 

You then have the option of more monitors and an even larger 3840 x 1080 and up display resolution for a few pounds more at some later date.

 

A few tips for those who may wish to consider this (without long winded reasons):-

 

Even quite cheap netbooks,

 

laptops etc are capable of supporting far higher resolutions on an external monitor - check you manual for this.

 

Only buy a monitor with at least a DVI and preferably an HDMI interface. If your computer only has a VGA output buy an adaptor. The monitor

 

will quite likely outlast the computer.

 

Avoid a TV for this, many don't display the full resolution.

 

If you need to disconnect a laptop frequently then leave a short extension cable or adaptor in it so the wear is on a cable not the socket.

 

Only

 

buy a top quality make. If price counts then quality matters more than LED back lighting or display types like IPS etc. which are not always the best anyway. There are plenty of online guides to help your decision.

 

 

[Graskie]

Some extremely helpful advice there, Raven, thanks. I was able to understand all of it as well.

[Fishmanoz]

Personally, I gave up using desktops many years ago and use only laptops, using a second monitor when at my desk.

 

I agree with Raven and display resolution. In fact, both my 4 yr old laptop and my monitor are 1920x1200. But even today, the general

 

run of laptop doesn't come with that resolution, significantly less in fact. But, and a significant but, most have the higher resolution as an option in their range at a higher price. And the premium is much smaller then it used to be.

 

So, if you need

 

to move a laptop around the house to sometimes use for the layout and sometimes for other use, and you don't want or have room for a second hi res monitor with the layout, then buy a laptop with a hi res screen. You'll benefit across all of your uses, not

 

just RM. And plenty have hi res touch screens these days too, another advantage.

[Graskie]

In my "other room" Centre of Operations here (my son's old bedroom) I'm currently ensconced and still prefer to have a great desktop setup in front of and around me, including wonderful surround sound speakers, together with versatile printer/scanner,

 

and easy to use wireless keyboard and mouse. A recent addition is my telephonic heart monitor. Far too big a combination to have in my railway room (my daughter's old bedroom).