Fishmanoz Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Take as many as you want any time Graskie, may and Douglas Adams' pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 That's my pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 RAF96... Multitudes of gratitude for allowing use of your pics etc. I'll copy and paste the info you give here for easier reference along with those pics. I look forward to getting some work done on stuff like this but people keep damaging their laptops and keep wanting websites built... what am I to do? Time is a premium commodity at the moment and I am glad the government don't tax it!! Graskie.. you are forgiven re attribute placed incorrectly... btw... don't take ALL the fish... leave some for the likes of us. Fishy... are these things healthy enough to eat? Or are they just for folk with loads of ears to stick them into... translation and all that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 AugustusCaesar said: RAF96... Multitudes of gratitude for allowing use of your pics etc. I'll copy and paste the info you give here for easier reference along with those pics. @AC - I'll post some more detailed pics later to better show component layout, and that decoder socket, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 RAF96 said: @AC - I'll post some more detailed pics later to better show component layout, and that decoder socket, etc http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/59951-dcc-decoder-adaptor/ If you crop the inner socket legs flush and leave the outer ones long and make the soldering tidier the adaptor will clip into the bread-board across a bus gap. If you omit the outer sockets and crop the vero-board to one spare row of holes either side you can use it to convert non DCC locos to DCC ready. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/59952-bread-boarding-for-dcc-decoder-testing/ This shows the basic test set up. Each white LED represents a decoder function. The decoder blue lead pin 7 goes to a collector bus at the top and then to each LED via a resistor. The other leg of the LED goes to decoder pins 2, 3, 6 and purple wire. The red 12V LED simulates the motor decoder pins 1 & 5 and goes bright/dim as speed is varied. Decoder pins 4 & 8 go to the DCC controller via top bus as shown here or via screw terminals. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 RAF96... Just managed to log back in after a busy day and a health scare for my wife so will copy and paste all text and pics as soon as I can. I absolutely appreciate your doing this and the guidance you are offering. I will hopefully be able to begin looking in earnest for the components I will need once we settle down after today's events. I had planned to do this through Thursday afternoon but as I find a quiet moment now I am simply on here to check the status of posts and respond as normal where possible. I am about to click on your new links and take in the info you give then make a cuppa and read some more threads etc before being taken to bed by my tired bones! :-) Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 AugustusCaesar said: RAF96... Just managed to log back in after a busy day and a health scare for my wife so will copy and paste all text and pics as soon as I can. I absolutely appreciate your doing this and the guidance you are offering. I will hopefully be able to begin looking in earnest for the components I will need once we settle down after today's events. I had planned to do this through Thursday afternoon but as I find a quiet moment now I am simply on here to check the status of posts and respond as normal where possible. I am about to click on your new links and take in the info you give then make a cuppa and read some more threads etc before being taken to bed by my tired bones! :-) Thanks again... Glad to be of help AC. I hope you can resolve your problems OK soonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 RAF96... I hope to get to check that info of yours some time this weekend. My wife gets results of a test at the end of the month but without going into it we will carry on as normal until then. I've been busy fixing a DVR for a friend of mine all say and it is proving awkward. Hopefully tomorrow will give me a result when I tackle the inside of a tuner. Then I can go look at the boards etc for addition to a growing collection of gadgets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Best wishes, AC. I'm sure we all hope your wife's results are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 @AC We all wish you and your wife and hope her results are fine. Mine has been having chest pains, we were worried, she has had quite a few tests and not heard back yet, be strong for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks guys... I much appreciate your thoughts and wishes for my wife and myself. There's nothing more worrying than test results being awaited and not knowing the outcome. It can drive some folk nuts but we are just playing it day by day. PJ... hopefuilly, like my wife's anticipated results I hope your wife's are fine too. You know when you and your partner get to a certain age in life all you want is peace and quiet and good health. Yet peace comes when the kids leave home, quiet comes when you close the door and lock it and good health arrives when someone raises a glass and offers a toast. Otherwise it's downhill from now on in... :-) RAF96... I'm now about to copy and paste the information you have put up so I can maybe go and purchase the board etc from Maplins later today instead of waiting for a postal jobby from gleebay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 AugustusCaesar said: Thanks guys... I much appreciate your thoughts and wishes for my wife and myself. There's nothing more worrying than test results being awaited and not knowing the outcome. It can drive some folk nuts but we are just playing it day by day. PJ... hopefuilly, like my wife's anticipated results I hope your wife's are fine too. You know when you and your partner get to a certain age in life all you want is peace and quiet and good health. Yet peace comes when the kids leave home, quiet comes when you close the door and lock it and good health arrives when someone raises a glass and offers a toast. Otherwise it's downhill from now on in... :-) RAF96... I'm now about to copy and paste the information you have put up so I can maybe go and purchase the board etc from Maplins later today instead of waiting for a postal jobby from gleebay... Having got to my 7th decade in half reasonable condition I fully appreciate your thinking AC. Re - prototype board. Make sure you buy plenty of extra jumper cables AC as you can never have too many. Having proven the concept, I think later this week if I can find enough bits I will have a go at building the vero-board version of a decoder tester. It looks as if I can get it on a piece 5 tracks deep x 12 holes long. (about 1/2" x 1-1/8" or 12mm x 27.5mm). It may even be worth extending such a board to mount 6 and 21 pin decoder sockets. I had wanted to mount a DPDT (ON-OFF-ON) switch on the vero-board so as to be able to easily toggle between Track and Prog without swapping wires over, but I can't find one that has pcb pins. I already have a sub-miniature switch with solder tags but it doesn't look as if it will fit the vero holes pitch without filing the tags down. Does anyone have sight of a suitable 6 pin switch? I also make use of a scrap DCC ready tender chassis as a handy decoder tester and as it has a speaker mount I could even test/setup sound decoders if ever I win the lotto... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Well RAF96... you know your stuff here... I am learning all the time and hopefully, if needs be, I can pop in here and test your brain cells! I've located the three items you mention previously at Maplins but, as per, all are stocked in different local stores and they keep saying 3 days for the next delivery to my nearest. I am wondering if they mean 3 days from ordering or for their stock to be replenished. I'll keep checking... I will also await your results of your new project to see where they all differ and which will be best. I got my own results from the doc today for type 2 diabetes and am assured I am OK but on the upper borderline. Diet changes and exercise ahead then!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 AC - I am a rank amateur with electronics. In practice I can nail stuff together and get it to work, but as to the deep theory behind it all I am still in junior school. Vero-board version will be wired as per the bread-board logic but it will be smaller and tidier, thus easier to use (or lose in my bits box). Very best of luck with your health regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 When I did Elec Eng in the 60s, we did valve theory, transistor theory in mind-numbing detail, then integrated circuits. These days, the only ones who need to know anything about transistor theory are the chip designers and fabricators. Everyone else just deals with things in large functional blocks, like decoders for instance. We don't need to know how the decoder works inside, just the inputs and outputs we get. Therefore, a test rig is just a way of connecting it to a controller and being able to see what turns up in the outputs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I guessed you may well have known more than you say RAF96 but I accept your humble level which is somewhat similar to mine then. I have been given a virtual clean bill of health so now it is just a matter of test results for my good lady wife. Fingers x'd!! So it turns out that our Aussie friend is the electronics genious then... :-) I guess these days things need to be simpler for the kids as they find exams hard to do you know even though they get nigh on 100% marks every time. Funny that... I see what you are saying Fishy re the values or visible outputs / inputs we require from the decoders for example. In that respect it is maybe just as well that we don't need to know EXACTLY how they work but it is for me a high curiosity thing. Looks like I will have to order that board online without seeing it and waiting three days for it to turn up in my nearest shop... how boring... but necessary :-) Help is appreciated as always guys... thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 For anyone following this thread that is interested I have posted a picture of the vero-board decoder tester project here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/60203-dcc-decoder-tester/ The LEDs show the motor running in reverse and with F0, F1 & F2 selected on. The white LED lights up when the motor is running forward and the red one goes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Hi RAF96 I now have the board AD-11, the wires and the 32 pin connector strip. I only picked up a single pack of wires though. For now hopefully they will suffice... if not I have plenty cabling I can make these out of. I take it from the pictures you offer up you have connected the supplied cable with the Elite to the track connectors on the Elite itself and then onto the black and yellow connectors on the board? In effect supplying power to the board for the decoder and LED's etc. On image 0470a you have the small connectors cut to a single lane of four sockets then two lanes of four and a single lane of four. I take it this cut board is the vero board you mention? I see it is insulated from the breadboard. Why is that when it may be easier to just connect the pins via the board... or is it because it has to be isolated from the LED connections on the right of the breadboard? I assume I am right with the latter statement? I can also see that each LED and resistor are connected to the circuit on single lanes of sockets... are the lanes connected in rows of six and each row is independant of the other? Thus no power crosses from one row to the next? The decoder 8 pin plug is not connected through the board because only the sngle yellow cable needs a connection to the single wire from the decoder at the top of board to give the lighting effect desired? I am finding myself hard to follow here so you may want to deal with each point or question individually when you answer... if you get it all!!! Why the motor? At this point I will leave it at that until clarification is received if you don't mind offering more help. Electronics eh? Wonder what it was like back in the age when electricity didn't exist... or apparently didn't exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 AugustusCaesar said: Hi RAF96 I now have the board AD-11, the wires and the 32 pin connector strip. I only picked up a single pack of wires though. For now hopefully they will suffice... if not I have plenty cabling I can make these out of. I take it from the pictures you offer up you have connected the supplied cable with the Elite to the track connectors on the Elite itself and then onto the black and yellow connectors on the board? In effect supplying power to the board for the decoder and LED's etc. On image 0470a you have the small connectors cut to a single lane of four sockets then two lanes of four and a single lane of four. I take it this cut board is the vero board you mention? I see it is insulated from the breadboard. Why is that when it may be easier to just connect the pins via the board... or is it because it has to be isolated from the LED connections on the right of the breadboard? I assume I am right with the latter statement? I can also see that each LED and resistor are connected to the circuit on single lanes of sockets... are the lanes connected in rows of six and each row is independant of the other? Thus no power crosses from one row to the next? The decoder 8 pin plug is not connected through the board because only the sngle yellow cable needs a connection to the single wire from the decoder at the top of board to give the lighting effect desired? I am finding myself hard to follow here so you may want to deal with each point or question individually when you answer... if you get it all!!! Why the motor? At this point I will leave it at that until clarification is received if you don't mind offering more help. Electronics eh? Wonder what it was like back in the age when electricity didn't exist... or apparently didn't exist! Hi AC I've noticed some people can reply by chopping the quotes into lumps to comment on each one but I'm not smart enough to do that yet, so I will answer in a block below: Talking to the Bread-Board project. The Elite is connected from the Track connectors if you are testing a decoder or Prog if you are programming one to the Black and Yellow large terminals for convenience (due to the larger diam wires) Then smaller diam wires connect to the decoder socket (veroboard outer row of sockets. The motor is attached using the Blue and Green terminals for the same reason. You are correct in saying the 4 lanes of sockets are the vero-board. I insulated it from the board just in case although the bread-board live bits are well protected within the board. The only reson it isn't incorporated into the bread-board is that there is no suitably spaced place to put it. Try a decoder plug and you will see why. Looking at the board the numbered rows are all connected in blocks, i.e. ABCDEF are linked, GHIJKL are linked but each A-F block and G-L block is isolated from the next. So the rows are linked across the board horizontally in blocks of 6 holes on the main part of the board, but at the bottom the columns of 6 holes are linked vertically. So you are correct in assuming that is why the LEDs are arranged as they are. Similarly the bus rails V1 V2 V3 V4 are linked as indicated by the red and black lines. i.e V1 V2 V3 V4 are separate red buses but V1 V2 and V3 V4 have common black bus. My AD12 board has this explained on the back of the blue containing board, although it is in pseudo English and not easy to understand at first read. With me so far? The decoder 8 pin plug is shown disconnected to better illustrate the vero-socket thing. It has to be plugged in to test the decoder. The single yellow wire you talk about is just a simple way of connecting the decoder purple wire to the board. This is for Function 2. Why the motor - this represents the loco and some decoders need a load before they will work/prog properly - some decoders don't, but seeing as the plot was to test the decoder I also wanted to make sure it ran up the speed range in both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 AC Maybe I didn't clarify why the decoder couldn't be mounted direct to the AD11 board properly. As the AD11 rows are linked horizontally on the main part of the board in blocks you would need to placed the decoder with one set of 4 legs on an A-F block and the other 4 legs on a G-L block. The gap in between them is too wide to mount the decoder socket directly hence it has to go on a bit of vero-board. You can't mount the decoder on a single A-F or G-L block due to this horizontal linking. This is why when using vero for this you must cut the rails between the decoder pins to achieve that gap. What you could do is mount two sets of socket rails to match the decoder spacing on vero cropping the legs flush, then use the two outer socket rails to match holes either side of the gap and leave their legs long enough hopefully to press into the AD11 holes. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 OK RAF96... I've read your two posts and will have to digest what you say. I'll try and have a go at this during this weekend using all the info and pics you have given so far. I won't use the motor to start with and if I get LED's to work then the rest will follow smoothly later. Good theory isn't it? Of course, having said that, I will need to get hold of some board, vero, that I can cut into shape for the coonections you describe above. So it'll have to wait until Monday now... oh the joys of spring and electronics! I'll check out Maplins again or order online if necessary. My wife receives her results of her tests that day and it may go either way. I'll keep you posted re the boards and my achievements etc... or ask more questions because something went wrong!! :-) Thanking you again for valuable input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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