How to combine signals and points under the pro pack

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Michael

 

I am always one for bottoming things off if there is a problem and working through step by step so bear with me.

 

We know that the signals on RM are red when the signal on the layout is red, we know the points on the screen are same as the ones on the layout, left for left etc.

 

This is what I would do next...

 

Open RM

Click the track plan planner a the top of the screen (the triangle icon)

 

Open your track design.

Once open click on the track plan file name and rename it

 

Next come out of the track planner back to RM

 

Click the System Settings icon on top bar (gear wheel)

 

Click the drop down menu in the middle for Start-up Track and choose the newly named one.

You have now renamed your track plan and included it in the plan RM loads (you can revert back to your old one any time by doing what you have just done)

 

If you know all this I apologise.

 

Now go back to Design Layout (Triangle icon) and open the newly named layout

 

Right Click EVERY point icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

Right Click EVERY signal icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

To do this click where it says Point number or signal number and hit your computer delete button

Once you have done this save the file

 

Go back and right click every one again to make sure they are all clear.

 

Make sure none of the signals or points have the small box set for reverse polarity. This is only used if for example you have set your points and got wires wrong way round.

 

You now have a blank canvas so to speak, you could at this stage re-save the file with a new name so you have one file with no point or signal commands.. If you change the same as whatevername_blank  once saved re-open the one you have just worked on as that matches the one RM will open for you.

 

I would now right click the point button of the one I want to work with and note its decoder port address

 

Now lets just do one item and see if it works

 

Right click the signal you want to use to change a point.

 

In the right hand column OTHER POINT/SIGNAL do the following for example this should help you get the feel of how it works

 

Click the left hand side of the white area in the right hand column it will give you a colour button

 

This First button stands for, if signal aspect colour say Red 

 

You can do the same under it and set to be, if signal colour aspect say Green

 

These are the two options for the 2 aspect signal

 

Now click the right space immediately to the right of the red signal icon, you will see an arrow for a drop down box, click it and scroll and choose your signal number lets say Point10. You can do the same next line down for the green aspect icon choose Point 10. 

 

Finally click the very right of the first line. Here you set your direction of your point. Look at your layout plan. You will see for the point you are setting a green arrow and on the other side a red arrow. Choose the arrow you want to use for the direction of your train, for both red and green, straight on or branch.

 

Save come out and test from RM screen.

 

This should allow you to see how to set things up and what alters what.

 

Now you can go back to Ray's images and follow what he has put or go for it and see if you can do it yourself. Note, I would do one item at a time and test before moving to the next item saving the file every time.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on. Like everything in life it is easy when you know how, or when you have done once but until then it can be a little frusrating. Learning curves!

 

PJ

 

 

 

[mcrook62]

Hi Michael

 

I am always one for bottoming things off if there is a problem and working through step by step so bear with me.

 

We know that the signals on RM are red when the signal on the layout is red, we know the points on the screen are same as the ones on the layout, left for left etc.

 

This is what I would do next...

 

Open RM

Click the track plan planner a the top of the screen (the triangle icon)

 

Open your track design.

Once open click on the track plan file name and rename it

 

Next come out of the track planner back to RM

 

Click the System Settings icon on top bar (gear wheel)

 

Click the drop down menu in the middle for Start-up Track and choose the newly named one.

You have now renamed your track plan and included it in the plan RM loads (you can revert back to your old one any time by doing what you have just done)

 

If you know all this I apologise.

 

Now go back to Design Layout (Triangle icon) and open the newly named layout

 

Right Click EVERY point icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

Right Click EVERY signal icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

To do this click where it says Point number or signal number and hit your computer delete button

Once you have done this save the file

 

Go back and right click every one again to make sure they are all clear.

 

Make sure none of the signals or points have the small box set for reverse polarity. This is only used if for example you have set your points and got wires wrong way round.

 

You now have a blank canvas so to speak, you could at this stage re-save the file with a new name so you have one file with no point or signal commands.. If you change the same as whatevername_blank  once saved re-open the one you have just worked on as that matches the one RM will open for you.

 

I would now right click the point button of the one I want to work with and note its decoder port address

 

Now lets just do one item and see if it works

 

Right click the signal you want to use to change a point.

 

In the right hand column OTHER POINT/SIGNAL do the following for example this should help you get the feel of how it works

 

Click the left hand side of the white area in the right hand column it will give you a colour button

 

This First button stands for, if signal aspect colour say Red 

 

You can do the same under it and set to be, if signal colour aspect say Green

 

These are the two options for the 2 aspect signal

 

Now click the right space immediately to the right of the red signal icon, you will see an arrow for a drop down box, click it and scroll and choose your signal number lets say Point10. You can do the same next line down for the green aspect icon choose Point 10. 

 

Finally click the very right of the first line. Here you set your direction of your point. Look at your layout plan. You will see for the point you are setting a green arrow and on the other side a red arrow. Choose the arrow you want to use for the direction of your train, for both red and green, straight on or branch.

 

Save come out and test from RM screen.

 

This should allow you to see how to set things up and what alters what.

 

Now you can go back to Ray's images and follow what he has put or go for it and see if you can do it yourself. Note, I would do one item at a time and test before moving to the next item saving the file every time.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on. Like everything in life it is easy when you know how, or when you have done once but until then it can be a little frusrating. Learning curves!

 

PJ

 

 

 

Hi PJ

Thank you for the help had a go last night and got 1 siding half working when I changed the signal to green points changed to give me the road

great but when signal changed to red no movement of points never mind the glass is half full.

i will be tinkering tonight

but again thank you

best regards

michael

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Michael

 

I am always one for bottoming things off if there is a problem and working through step by step so bear with me.

 

We know that the signals on RM are red when the signal on the layout is red, we know the points on the screen are same as the ones on the layout, left for left etc.

 

This is what I would do next...

 

Open RM

Click the track plan planner a the top of the screen (the triangle icon)

 

Open your track design.

Once open click on the track plan file name and rename it

 

Next come out of the track planner back to RM

 

Click the System Settings icon on top bar (gear wheel)

 

Click the drop down menu in the middle for Start-up Track and choose the newly named one.

You have now renamed your track plan and included it in the plan RM loads (you can revert back to your old one any time by doing what you have just done)

 

If you know all this I apologise.

 

Now go back to Design Layout (Triangle icon) and open the newly named layout

 

Right Click EVERY point icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

Right Click EVERY signal icon and remove all entries from the right hand column

 

To do this click where it says Point number or signal number and hit your computer delete button

Once you have done this save the file

 

Go back and right click every one again to make sure they are all clear.

 

Make sure none of the signals or points have the small box set for reverse polarity. This is only used if for example you have set your points and got wires wrong way round.

 

You now have a blank canvas so to speak, you could at this stage re-save the file with a new name so you have one file with no point or signal commands.. If you change the same as whatevername_blank  once saved re-open the one you have just worked on as that matches the one RM will open for you.

 

I would now right click the point button of the one I want to work with and note its decoder port address

 

Now lets just do one item and see if it works

 

Right click the signal you want to use to change a point.

 

In the right hand column OTHER POINT/SIGNAL do the following for example this should help you get the feel of how it works

 

Click the left hand side of the white area in the right hand column it will give you a colour button

 

This First button stands for, if signal aspect colour say Red 

 

You can do the same under it and set to be, if signal colour aspect say Green

 

These are the two options for the 2 aspect signal

 

Now click the right space immediately to the right of the red signal icon, you will see an arrow for a drop down box, click it and scroll and choose your signal number lets say Point10. You can do the same next line down for the green aspect icon choose Point 10. 

 

Finally click the very right of the first line. Here you set your direction of your point. Look at your layout plan. You will see for the point you are setting a green arrow and on the other side a red arrow. Choose the arrow you want to use for the direction of your train, for both red and green, straight on or branch.

 

Save come out and test from RM screen.

 

This should allow you to see how to set things up and what alters what.

 

Now you can go back to Ray's images and follow what he has put or go for it and see if you can do it yourself. Note, I would do one item at a time and test before moving to the next item saving the file every time.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on. Like everything in life it is easy when you know how, or when you have done once but until then it can be a little frusrating. Learning curves!

 

PJ

 

 

 

Hi PJ

Thank you for the help had a go last night and got 1 siding half working when I changed the signal to green points changed to give me the road

great but when signal changed to red no movement of points never mind the glass is half full.

i will be tinkering tonight

but again thank you

best regards

michael

 

Hello Michael

 

I am please your glass is half full, always better than half empty ;o)

 

You have given a command to go one way 

 

on red signal -  point number - do this

next give another command

on green signal - point number - do that.

 

Save and test

 

Do one instruction at a time and save and test that way you will learn fast and soon teach us.

 

PJ

[mcrook62]

Hi All

been working last couple hrs setting this up got to the point of 1 set points 2 signals  as per rays diagram

signal 1 changes to green points change for that road change sigmal 1 to red points change to signal2 road but light stays red but on rm light shows green change signal 2 to red points change to signal 1 road and signal 1 changes to green so nearly got it just got to sort out why signal 2 don't change to green grr grr so mad in the box of signal pol box not ticked wires change around but no diffrents got to have another coffee break.

regards

mcrook62

[St1ngr4y]

Hi All

been working last couple hrs setting this up got to the point of 1 set points 2 signals  as per rays diagram

signal 1 changes to green points change for that road change sigmal 1 to red points change to signal2 road but light stays red but on rm light shows green change signal 2 to red points change to signal 1 road and signal 1 changes to green so nearly got it just got to sort out why signal 2 don't change to green grr grr so mad in the box of signal pol box not ticked wires change around but no diffrents got to have another coffee break.

regards

mcrook62

Hi,

I've just been trying out the setup I described for you with two signals and a point on my own layout. You are absolutely correct - it's a complete shambles, nothing works the way it should. There are bugs in the way RM is behaving and they should be reported. 

Would you like me to do that on your behalf, or would you like to have a go at the online help facility built into RM?

Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi All

been working last couple hrs setting this up got to the point of 1 set points 2 signals  as per rays diagram

signal 1 changes to green points change for that road change sigmal 1 to red points change to signal2 road but light stays red but on rm light shows green change signal 2 to red points change to signal 1 road and signal 1 changes to green so nearly got it just got to sort out why signal 2 don't change to green grr grr so mad in the box of signal pol box not ticked wires change around but no diffrents got to have another coffee break.

regards

mcrook62

Hi,

I've just been trying out the setup I described for you with two signals and a point on my own layout. You are absolutely correct - it's a complete shambles, nothing works the way it should. There are bugs in the way RM is behaving and they should be reported. 

Would you like me to do that on your behalf, or would you like to have a go at the online help facility built into RM?

Ray

 

Hi Ray

 

Thanks for following through on this, I was just replying to Fishy for Signals and LD in RailMaster and was going to come back to this.

 

Get HRMS involved, these bugs must be sorted out

 

PJ

[mcrook62]

Hi All

been working last couple hrs setting this up got to the point of 1 set points 2 signals  as per rays diagram

signal 1 changes to green points change for that road change sigmal 1 to red points change to signal2 road but light stays red but on rm light shows green change signal 2 to red points change to signal 1 road and signal 1 changes to green so nearly got it just got to sort out why signal 2 don't change to green grr grr so mad in the box of signal pol box not ticked wires change around but no diffrents got to have another coffee break.

regards

mcrook62

Hi,

I've just been trying out the setup I described for you with two signals and a point on my own layout. You are absolutely correct - it's a complete shambles, nothing works the way it should. There are bugs in the way RM is behaving and they should be reported. 

Would you like me to do that on your behalf, or would you like to have a go at the online help facility built into RM?

Ray

Hi Ray

sorry to say I am glad I was not going mad just could no get my head around why it would not work. Yes please if you could report it for me well for all of us who are trying to make sense of what we are suppose to do right when it don't work anyway.

Best regards

michael

[St1ngr4y]

Hello Michael & PJ,

I recreated the diagram which I posted earlier in this thread, but changed the addresses of the signals and point to actual signals and point on my layout. I saved the diagram with a new name, then made it my default layout and did some testing. Then I reported the problems with this text...

This is in response to a Forum request for help entitled "How to combine signals and points under the pro pack", raised by a user called Michael, with a username of Mcrook62. I provided an image of a layout example containing one point and two 2-aspect home colour light signals. Michael foumd problems getting the "other points/signals" settings to work, so I have set up the same example again, using signal and point addresses of actual signals and a point which exist on my layout, and I have made this layout my default layout temporarily in order to report the problems.The idea of this setup is that when a signal is changed, the other signal will be changed to the opposite aspect, and the point will be changed to reflect the signal settings. Then if the point is changed, each signal will reflect the new point setting.

1. The signals and point have startup positions defined. After Railmaster startup, the actual signals and point were set correctly - 106 red, 107 green, 29 left. However, on the computer layout diagram both signals showed green.

2. Whichever signal is clicked, the aspect changes on both the screen and the actual signal, but the actual signal shows the opposite of that shown on the layout diagram.

3. When signal 106 is clicked, point 29 always switches left, irrespective of the aspect being shown either onscreen or the actual signal. Signal 107 doesn't change at all.

4. When signal 107 is clicked, point 29 always switches right, irrespective of the aspect being shown either onscreen or the actual signal. Signal 106 doesn't change at all.

5. When point 29 is switched, the blue route indicator reflects the direction of the point correctly, but neither of the signals 106 or 107 change.

 

Hopefully they will be able to use this example to get to the bottom of the problems which Michael found.

Ray

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

We have received your email regarding this issue and will be investigating it.

[gilbo2]

I have very similar problems to what is described above. For information I found that in 1.56V9 my signals / points worked correctly, controlling each other through "other points / signals" but not in the later releases. If you still have a copy of 1.56V9 it may be worth a quick test to see if the problem is resolved?

[PJ_model_trains]

I have very similar problems to what is described above. For information I found that in 1.56V9 my signals / points worked correctly, controlling each other through "other points / signals" but not in the later releases. If you still have a copy of 1.56V9 it may be worth a quick test to see if the problem is resolved?

 

Hi dgilbert2

 

Contact HRMS through RM and let them know

 

They can't fix a problem if they don't know!

 

They may think everything is working fine if not notified.

 

They want us to tell them so they can get things fixed and move on.

 

They have said this before on the forum.

 

PJ

[mcrook62]

Hello Michael & PJ,

I recreated the diagram which I posted earlier in this thread, but changed the addresses of the signals and point to actual signals and point on my layout. I saved the diagram with a new name, then made it my default layout and did some testing. Then I reported the problems with this text...

This is in response to a Forum request for help entitled "How to combine signals and points under the pro pack", raised by a user called Michael, with a username of Mcrook62. I provided an image of a layout example containing one point and two 2-aspect home colour light signals. Michael foumd problems getting the "other points/signals" settings to work, so I have set up the same example again, using signal and point addresses of actual signals and a point which exist on my layout, and I have made this layout my default layout temporarily in order to report the problems.The idea of this setup is that when a signal is changed, the other signal will be changed to the opposite aspect, and the point will be changed to reflect the signal settings. Then if the point is changed, each signal will reflect the new point setting.

1. The signals and point have startup positions defined. After Railmaster startup, the actual signals and point were set correctly - 106 red, 107 green, 29 left. However, on the computer layout diagram both signals showed green.

2. Whichever signal is clicked, the aspect changes on both the screen and the actual signal, but the actual signal shows the opposite of that shown on the layout diagram.

3. When signal 106 is clicked, point 29 always switches left, irrespective of the aspect being shown either onscreen or the actual signal. Signal 107 doesn't change at all.

4. When signal 107 is clicked, point 29 always switches right, irrespective of the aspect being shown either onscreen or the actual signal. Signal 106 doesn't change at all.

5. When point 29 is switched, the blue route indicator reflects the direction of the point correctly, but neither of the signals 106 or 107 change.

 

Hopefully they will be able to use this example to get to the bottom of the problems which Michael found.

Ray

Hi Ray

No answer yet from Hornby?

regards

Michael

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Michael,

The only response I have had is that they would set this up and do some testing.

Ray

[mcrook62]

Hi Michael,

The only response I have had is that they would set this up and do some testing.

Ray

HI Ray

That's more than I got

regards

Michael

[Fishmanoz]

Michael, you are talking HRMS who posted above, not HCC?  Most unusual for HRMS not to respond. 

[Tarabuses]

Does anyone know if this problem was resolved by HRMS?  I am having a similar issue at present which is why I searched for and found this old thread.  I don't want to continue trying to resolve my problem if there is an unresolved bug in Railmaster. 

[Chrissaf]

There are several issue variations discussed in this long old topic thread, and you haven't really given a clear indication exactly what one you are currently experiencing. I suggest that you start a brand new topic in the RailMaster forum section and clearly describe the exact issue you have got.

.

In the two years since this topic was last added to, HRMS have made many upgrades to RM. Many of them relating to signalling. It really is best to start a new topic with a detailed description of your issue. Then it will be easier to say whether it is an old bug still unresolved, a new bug nobody has reported before or just 'user error' in the way you have it configured.

.

If and when I see a new topic post, I will hide these last two entries in this thread, so that this topic gets put where it belongs......back in the past.

[Tarabuses]

I certainly will once I am satisfied that I cannot resolve the problem myself.

I was just hoping that either mcrook62 or St1ngr4y, who sent details of the problem to HRMS, had been notified of or had become aware of its resolution.

[Fishmanoz]

Hi Tara, I'm with Chris on this one.  RM today and RM 2 years ago are completely different beasts because a lot of work has gone into resolving signal issues for a start. And looking back over the thread, this problem may only be a signal issue, not an interaction between signals and points, the apparent interaction being just coincidental. 

 

May I suggest 3 things:

 

1.  Tara, set up something similar to Ray, but as it applies to you and what you want to do, and see if you find the problem still exists on your layout. If so, having done it and before shutting RM down, use the email report facility in the Help screen to tell HRMS about the problem. Most important you run through the issue before reporting because the log.txt file that goes to HRMS with your email tells them exactly what you've done. This will get you a lot further than just asking 2 years down the track if "the issue" has been resolved. 

 

2.  Ray, if you are reading, can you repeat your previous test for Tara, instead of Tara, who seems reluctant, doing it.

 

3.  If you want to see how far RM has come on signal issues, click on PJ bringing up his account and a chronological listing of his posts. His last few contain lots of signal testing showing many issues resolved by HRMS, but one or 2 remaining if I remember correctly. 

 

PS.  This would have to be one of the most annoying threads I have come across recently.  If anyone uses the blue quote button again and repeats and re-repeats someone's long post, like Ray's with diagrams, instead of using the text box and green Reply button and just posting their own words, I shall consider jumping down the forum to throttle them personally. The sooner the blue quote button is removed from the forums the better. 

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Fishy & Tara,

I can hardly believe that it was two years ago when I did this testing. However, I have repeated those tests with exactly the same point and signals, and I can report that ALMOST everything now works.

The point changes each signal to reflect the correct route, and the signal icons and the blue point route indicator on the mimic correspond to the actual signal and point settings.

Clicking a signal changes the point correctly and again the signal icon and the point route indicator on the mimic correctly reflect the signal and point settings.

HOWEVER, when a signal is clicked the other signal does not change at all, either on the mimic or the actual signal. In case this fault was because of the presence of the "other point" in the configuration, I added two other 2-aspect signals with different addresses, and configured them to change each other only. This did not work either. I tried two ways - first so that one changed the other to the opposite aspect of itself and vice versa, and second so that one changed the other to the same aspect as itself, and vice versa, but none of these combinations worked.

 

@HRMS 

Do you want me to report this as a new fault through the system, or is it a known fault?

 

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

I suggest you report it anyway Ray, with a log.txt file showing the bug. Even if reported already, clearly not fixed yet.

 

Tara, I think that tells you the full story for now.  You can get lots done, just not one signal changing another for now. 

[St1ngr4y]

I suggest you report it anyway Ray, with a log.txt file showing the bug. Even if reported already, clearly not fixed yet.

 

Done ...

 

Trouble is, the log.txt file doesn't show anything when you click on an item such as a point or signal on your layout diagram. But at least they will have the small layout diagram I created with the point and signals configured as described.

 

Ray

[Tarabuses]

Thanks to everyone for bearing with me on this and especially to Ray for running the tests again.  I will be mindful of the remaining fault when trying to resolve my problem.