Point Motors advise required please

[Ajay1]

I have just finished soldering all the  feeder wires to my track and connected the bus wires to the controller. Low and behold its working and I am able to run all my locos around all the tracks on the layout.( I must have done something right!!!)   Now before I go ahead and purchase the Point Motors for the next stage I need a bit of advise,  What would be the best to get ?  I need to obtain at least eight and at the most twelve.  

I understand that using the R8014 motors also require the Point Motor Housings  R8015 and the Passing Contact Lever Switch R044( more expense) and that using the Surface Mount  Point Motors R8243 the only drawback with those, being that the hole for which the arm bar on the point tracks is fitted is too small to fit the Peco Track for which I have one of these ( my supplier substituted the Peco equivalent as they where OOS at the time of the Hornby one) my tracks are all Hornby apart from.

I would be greatful if someone could therefore advize the best way to go.

Thanks.

Antony.

[Chrissaf]

This is definitely one of those questions where you lock 10 enthusiasts in a room and they will come out with 20 different recommendations and suggestions. At the end of the day, it has got to be down to personal choice. All the current point motor systems have their own pro’s & con’s but fall into two distinct categories. Solenoid and Slow Action.

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Since your post has already mentioned solenoid point products, then I would assume that you have already discounted ‘slow action’ point motors – or have you?

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Taking a few of your comments point by point.

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“I understand that using the R8014 motors also require the Point Motor Housings R8015”

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This is only potentially true if the intention is to mount the R8014 motor above the baseboard. To my mind the R8015 housing is large, bulky and toy like – others might disagree. The size being the main issue, if points are close to other track pieces, there may not be enough space for the R8015. The R8014 should ideally, in my view, be mounted under the point and the R8243 used if mounted above base-board.

 

For the Peco point track pieces you have mentioned not being compatible with the R8243, then you could use Peco’s PL-10E Solenoid Point motor for under-board mounting or Peco PL-10 plus PL-12X adaptor if mounting above board. Alternatively, Peco’s equivalent to the Hornby R8243, is the Peco PL-11.

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As an aside. I would suggest not mixing manufacturers products. Use Hornby motors on Hornby points and Peco motors on Peco points. This is assuming solenoid point motors of course.

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NOTE: Both Peco and Hornby use Black, Red and Green point wiring. But be aware that Peco and Hornby have different implementations of these colours, they do not have the same function. In Hornby wiring, the Black wire is the common wire. In Peco wiring, the Green wire is the common wire.

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You mention the “Passing Contact Lever Switch R044”. Yes these can be expensive particularly when you add in the cost of the housings as well. But there is nothing to stop you using non-locking, on-centre off–on, toggle switches, or push buttons, or stud and wand, or wire and tube. There are numerous options for throwing the point. All a lot cheaper than the R044 system.

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If you are definitely going to operate your points with electrical switches. Then I would highly recommend deploying a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU).

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You haven’t mentioned whether your control is DC or DCC. However, reading the first sentence “I have just finished soldering all the feeder wires to my track and connected the bus wires to the controller.” This would seem to indicate that your layout is DCC. Have you considered switching your points electronically via an Accessory Decoder.

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Have a look at the following post for more info:

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/how-do-i-make-and-wire-up-points-to-make-them-move-when-clicked/?p=1

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The main issue as I see it, is that you have already fitted your track and points and are running trains. Under track point motors, particularly Hornby ones, really need to be fitted as you are laying the point. Peco solenoid point motors can be fitted underneath as an afterthought by use of mounting plates, as can Seep motors. On the face of it, you would appear to have to implement a surface mount solution. This does, in my view, rather limit your options.

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I think this is enough overview comment for the time being. Do some more research, then come back with supplementary questions about specific methods of point control. By asking specific questions, people who use that particular type of control can come back and provide answers based on their personal experience.

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Or just sit back and wait for the other 19 different recommendations and suggestions that are completely at odds with my own to arrive in this thread.

[Ajay1]

Firstly, thanks for responding so quickly,  slow action point motors ?  what are they ?  forgive me I am new to all this, not having had a trainset since the early 60's and then it was a Marklin. All I have achieved in my layout installation so far is by following You Tube videos, so it't going to be a long slow process from go to whoa, which I don't mind. My DCC layout is only on an 8 x 4 table and I have the room to place the motors above board  no matter which is used

As only one piece of track is a  Peco Point track  and all the rest are Hornby I'd rather keep to the same. 

I am going to use a Points & Accessory Decoder,which I think I need at least two. Im just looking as to which would be the simpleist of installating.

[Fishmanoz]

Can I suggest there is no difference in installation of accessory decoders, no matter which you get, the only difference is that some slow action (rotary motor driven) point motors have decoders mounted on the point, optionally or exclusively, and others are multi-port driving a number of motors.  All will be mounted under your layout to keep them out of site.  Most will be powered and controlled from your DCC bus, although some can use optional separate power supplies.

 

Some research would be in order, lots on here and elsewhere concerning different brands.  And now adding decoders to point motors, the 10 experts will have 40 different solutions when they emerge.

[2e0dtoeric]

Solenoid versus slow motors - simple explanation - a solenoid is a sliding metal bar in a pair of wire magnets. Put a squirt of power into one coil, and BAM, the metal bar shoots to that end. Put power to the other coil, and BAM, it shoots back.

That puts a shock-load onto the tie-bar and the moving bit of the point rail, which name I have temporarily forgotten, and can result in them failing, eventually.

They want momentary or passing-contact switches, stud and probe, or whatever switches to work them. Leave the power on for too long, and the coil overheats and dies.

A slow motor is a bit like a gearbox with a lever, and winds from one side to the other on command, but needs a constant power to make it move. A quick jolt (like for a solenoid) will merely make the motor twitch. They are kinder on the point than a solenoid, more realistic in operation, and more expensive!

You can buy them ready-made, or make your own with a small electronic circuit and a servo motor, which can be bought together or seperately.

For 'remote' mounting of a motor, if it won't fit, use a length of fine piano wire, with the ends bent up. One end goes through the hole in the point tie-bar, and the other goes through the slider-bar of the base for the little house, or the servo arm.

There is another thread on here about remote points, I forget the title, with my pic's of both ends of the solution.

 

My preference for controlling the point motors is to use toggle switches, mounted on a diagram of the track - the toggle shows the direction of the point - and a press-to-test button switch to power the point motor. That way, I can see at a glance where the points are supposed to be. (Note supposed, now and then they aren't because one stuck, or something!)

As said before, do your research before spending anything.

[2e0dtoeric]

Just an afterthought - if you want to 'remote' mount your surface motors, they don't HAVE to be in the little house. You can hide them inside buildings, or under hollow hills, etc, just make a small slot in the base of the building for the wire to slide through!

With plastic or acrylics, a small file will make a neat slot, and with the card ones, a few moments with a sharp knife.

[Chrissaf]

2e0 makes a good point. You could mix surface mounted R8014 type motors with wire and tube operation so that the motors can be hidden inside other remotely located scenery items, such as buildings, hills and ramps etc. Best of both worlds. Ease of installation, but visibly neat and pleasing. Also means that you could use the R8014 on the Peco point as well.

[Ajay1]

Thanks everyone, I'll take all your suggestions onboard and do a little more research before I decide witch way to go.

[96RAF]

I've always had an indicator led on my points operated by a point switch, in turn operated by the point motor so if the point is at A or B then the led is at A or B - no chance of duff indication causing a crash.

On DCC I use dual bi-colour red/green lights at junctions on my track to indicate right of way:

Green - right of way clear 

Red - right of way blocked.

Not traditional signalling but it works for me.

I tried to post a link to a picture but newRMWeb is down at present. Maybe next week when I get to UK.

[Fishmanoz]

Just a correction in my last post here - I said decoders mounted on points when I meant mounted on point motors.

[2e0dtoeric]

First and obvious question - if you are using a track mat, are the points and point motors (and the rest of the track) fastened down, or free to slide about?

If they are loose, the motor is probably pushing itself back and to, instead of moving the point!

[Fishmanoz]

If you take a look in the RM forum, Peter has also put his question in there at the end of another thread. As it is an RM question from the detail he put there, would be better to leave this topic and put answers on the RM thread.  Also just to answer 2e0's, it was working on DC so unlikely to be a not pinned down problem.