Matt123x

I'm using Hornby points.

Thanks for the further suggestions. I have checked the back to back and have experimented with changing it slightly but it doesn't make much difference. The track seems OK to me but it's been ballasted so there's little I can do to adjust it. I suspect it isn't 100% perfect but is good enough for older, heavier, less sensitive bogies. The newer bogies are just too lightweight to handle any very slight imperfections. That's probably what's happening here I think.

Thanks but there seems little point really. I can't see how Hornby can solve this problem for me as it seems to be a fundamental design flaw. I now have the Cock O' the North and so need to decide what to do with it (The Duke of Gloucester had to be returned for a refund as it was faulty (the motor abruptly stopped working after about 20 mins of use) and the first Cock O' the North had to be returned because it was damaged). All 3 performed similarly on my points. So my options would seem to be (a) to keep it and use it in the points free parts of my layout (b) to continue experimenting with weights and alternative bogie wheels or © to return it for a refund.

No I haven't fitted these so the bogie can turn freely.

Sadly there's no spring on these front bogies. They just attach to the loco via 2 pins that allow the bogie to pivot left and right and vertically. There's nothing to keep the bogie on the tracks, not weight, a spring or anything else.

Thanks Roger. That's exactly what the problem seems to be. On both the Duke of Gloucester and the Cock O'the North the bogie is so light that it just won't stay on the tracks through points. It's noticeable how much heavier the front bogies are on the older models. Does anyone know if new Bachmann models have the same problem (or maybe I'm not meant to ask questions like that on this forum :))?

Thanks John, perhaps I've been unlucky. I've tried all speeds - I can navigate some of the points OK if the loco is literally crawling but anything above a crawl and the front bogie derails. I've also tried backwards and that works fine, no derailments. I don't have any derailment problems with older steam locos or with new diesel locos. It seems to be the modern front bogies on steam models that are causing the problems.

I have a number of older steam locos and have never had any problems with the front bogies derailing on points. However, I recently tried a new Duke of Gloucester and 2 different Railroad Cock O' the Norths and all 3 were unable to navigate a single set of my points without the front bogie derailing. One of the Cock O' the Norths could barely get around a 3rd radius curve without derailing. In contrast I have a Royal Lancer and a Seagull, both dating from the 1980s, which will navigate all of my points at full speed and almost never derail. Compared to these older models it seems that the newer Hornby models have much lighter front bogies and have smaller flanges on the wheels. I've tried putting some extra weight on the front bogie but there isn't space to put enough weight to make a difference. I've tried using older, deeper flanged wheels and this makes a slight improvement but not a massive improvement. I've also tried adjusting the b2b distance, again with no real improvement. I can't believe the newer designs are quite so bad. Why would they design models that derail so easily compared to older models? Do others have the same problems with new steam models or am I just unlucky in that the positioning of my points just doesn't suit them? Does anyone know if modern Bachman steam locos suffer from the same problems or do they tend to have heavier front bogies like older Hornby models did?