Thank you both for such clear explanation of why I have this problem. I now know what sort of signal I need if I go down the LED pathway on the HM6010. I do not think I am up to making the conversion circuit so I will continue to use the few Berko LED signals I have which I am using successfully with the manual lever on-on system. on other less often used parts of my layout and source the correct type for the main circuits and terminals.