New08

Indeed, the picture of the TT120 blue 08 on the sales page shows a ladder fitted, I am not 100% sure whether this could be correct for the early 70s when the loco received it's TOPS numbering. However the description accompanying the loco says it is an early (1957) example and from my comparatively limited detail knowledge of 08s the model is correct in that it has wooden cab doors. Wouldn't it have been just as easy to have therefore released a livery variant of the same loco in BR green to match the initial wagon releases? I do appreciate there is a huge range to cover and it will take time, but it doesn't seem very joined up to have planned as an initial release of so many Era 4 and 5 wagons and provide nothing but a Pacific to pull them.

Hobby, Indeed, and as things stand presently I has reached that conclusion. I now have sufficient track and materials (the PECO buffer-stops are exquisite incidentally) to build the small layout I had planned as a small side-project, and there is no reason not to stick with purchase of the 08 and remaining wagons I have on order. However I have decided to otherwise park my TT120 project for now, not make any further significant spend on it and revert to my primary modelling interest (N) until more of a range becomes available. I do have a spare small diorama board and so may have a bit of an experiment in the meantime using that. This may not be the right forum (but as it is still TT120 I will say it anyway) I am loving the look of the PECO track and so laying a small section and a buffer stop, ballasting and weathering will hopefully validate plans to continue my TT120 layout later.

96RAF the Hornby TT120 08 loco has a six pin socket anyway so that would rule out any kind of Next 18 decoder as a plug and play solution, not just the Hornby one. I was simply trying to suggest an alternative that could be used with the 6 pin socket and making the point that if sound can be done in an N Gauge 08 with a larger Zimo decoder then the Zimo MS500 offers a potential plug and play alternative to an N18 decoder. Incidentally, the latest Farish 08 has space for a Next 18 socket, sound-decoder and speaker and they come fitted as such, so saying there is not room in the larger internal volume of the TT120 loco does seem a bit lame to me, I wonder if it is more to do with cost?

If I can fit a sound decoder and speaker in an N Gauge 08 and an even smaller Zimo (MS500 6-pin) is available now, I am pretty certain it will be possible to get sound in the TT120 model somehow.

D9020 Nimbus thanks for correcting me re: the Brush Type 2 (31) yes, a fair point that it is being produced in Phase 4 and is a Type 2 and was used on East Anglian branches pretty much from introduction so it has some potential. That said, for a small Branch line Terminus model it is a bit large (I am thinking things like head-shunt clearance on a layout constrained by length). It is true that the Triang TT3 range didn't include an 0-6-0 tender loco but then the range never grew that large, however there was a 61xx Prairie and I have seen pictures of a 43xx which was planned but never produced (using the 61xx chassis paired with a Castle tender I understand). I used the 4F as an example of a small tender loco because of it's simplicity and because it has appeared in Hornby's OO range, but I was actually referring to smaller tender locos in general, so that would open up quite a lot of possibilities from existing OO CAD. However, I am pretty sure that Simon K said all TT120 models would all be new from the ground up and have nothing in common with OO models design wise, maybe I got that wrong? Nothing said changes the basic issue though, which is that a range consisting almost exclusively "big" locos probably for the first two to three years will not cater for those looking at a small end to end layout, and as I recall marketing blurb (or was it Simon K?) has mentioned use of window sills as a potential location it doesn't add up. I appreciate that it takes time to introduce a range but in order to cater for a wider spread of modellers and potential layout types I would have though more of a balance between small medium and large loco types would have been provided. I absolutely agree re: the choice of brake van and mineral wagon, in BR days there are plenty of examples of A3s and A4s on fitted freights with a long wheelbase 20T LNER (or BR derivative) brake van on the rear (e.g. Waverley Route) so the example provided, albeit a very nice model seems very odd. Same goes for the ubiquitous 16T mineral wagon, in fitted and unfitted form it just seems such a no-brainer to me. Anyway, I'll await the 08 and the rest of the wagons I have on order, but otherwise my current thinking is to put the idea of a TT120 BLT layout on a bit of a back burner for now I think. It could be that in 20 years time things will indeed be rosy for TT120, but on the other hand if the right balance of models don't arrive in the early stages interest may wane. Undoubtedly Hornby do believe they have it "right" and don't see the same issue as me at all, but I recall SK saying that they didn't do market research as such, relying on years of market experience, so we will have to wait and see.

96RAF I am very aware of what the process steps of designing and manufacturing a model loco entails and that the likely lead time from initial concept to delivery can normally be measured in years. An 0-6-0 tender loco (I gave the Fowler 4F as an example) or middle sized tank/tender locos more generally are hardly "rare breed" locos they were the backbone of real railways for many years and surely bread and butter models for any manufacturer? Even when Tri-ang originally introduced TT3 it was the Jinty 0-6-0 Tank which was one of the initial releases along with sets (passenger and freight) based around it. That basic utility loco gave a lot more potential to grow a layout than a large express type because it could be put to use on much more. Maybe Hornby's vision for promotion of TT120 is not as a modeller's scale but more about having large locos pulling three coaches around an oval of track, in which case I can't see me remaining interested in the scale for very long.

An 0-6-0 tender-loco isn't a "niche" model by any standard it is a bread and butter model and locos of this mid-sized type are I feel essential if Hornby want to maintain momentum and attract modellers to the scale. I have an A4 "Easterner" set but I am sure there are many like me who will never be satisfied with a Pacific pulling three coaches round a trainset oval and as a modelling project in TT120 it won't form the basis. I bought it because I was intrigued and at the price it was worth a "punt". However while impressed by the quality I realised pretty much immediately that a continuous run layout comparable to N in terms of length of trains would take a significantly bigger baseboard footprint and wasn't viable, however a TT120 project a for small branch line terminus/shunting layout was, and I felt would be an enjoyable build, so I have ordered wagons (three delivered), a loco, a board and track for this. The issue though is (and I feel sure I will not be alone in thinking this) that if all I can get for the foreseeable future that is remotely suitable to run on the said layout is an 08 (Even then ordered in BR blue as no green/black ones are available in the first run) I too may be thinking of parking the TT120 idea and reverting to my primary modelling scale (N). My point is that Hornby has only a limited time to keep people like me engaged with the idea of modelling TT120 and bluntly it isn't going to do it with an 08 alone. Yes I am aware there are two small tank locos listed for Phase 4 but judging by the current speed of delivery I doubt they will be with us until 2025 and anyway welcome as they will ultimately be, they do nothing to address the lack of medium sized locos, and as I have said the same issue exists in the announced diesel range too.

I get that Hornby can't do everything at once and also that they have chosen to prioritise locos like the A3, A4 and Duchess for impact in the initial phases. However what I do not understand is why after Phase 1 and 2 following steam releases in Phase 3 goes for yet more larger tender locos with the Castle and 9F and even Phase 4 has just two 0-6-0 tank locos. Why has nobody at Hornby thought to include a great all rounder the from the family of British 0-6-0 tender locos such as the Fowler 4F? These could be used on freight and passenger on main or branch lines, for shunting and even expresses in the form of excursion traffic - such incredible utility. Simple enough mechanically, straightforward to fit DCC sound in, they would presumably be cheaper to produce than say an A4 and much more versatile. The issue I have with the offers in the first four phases is that they are either small or large with nothing in between, same in diesel terms - just large ones, no Type 1 or 2 diesels like the Class 20, 24, 25, 27, 33... In terms of running longer trains, TT120 is always going to be at a disadvantage compared to N as the surface area of an equivalent layout will be far greater. However it does have attractions for simple branch-line type layouts and shunting-planks where this isn't such an issue but the extra presence of TT120 may be appealing and surely this is an area that should be targeted to attract those looking beyond train-set appeal?

I asked the Hornby Helpdesk a couple of months back and they reckoned the 08s would be arriving late May/early June. I have a few wagons with more on order and it would be nice for it to arrive earlier so that I have something suitable to pull them (I have an A4 but that isn't ideal for a small shunting layout!). Seems nuts to me that there are no BR green or black ones in the first run, they would have been brilliant sellers I would have thought. I have had to make do with a blue one, depending on how long it will be be before we get further livery choices I guess I may end up repainting it..

So to clarify, having just pre-ordered a blue 08, it takes a 6 pin chip? I have managed to get DCC sound into the previous "new" Farish 08 model (i.e. the one before the most recent one) and am pretty used to squeezing a decoder and speaker into N models. If this TT120 model is 6 pin DCC ready, presumably it must be possible to fit the tiny Zimo MS500 sound chip and a modest sugarcube speaker without too much hassle? Roy