Generic Hornby Username
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Posts posted by Generic Hornby Username
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6 hours ago, ellocoloco said:
If Hornby have their commercial planning caps on, and are actually communicating with the guys in the Arnold TT office, then a Class 86 would be a suitable choice. In BR service there were plenty of liveries over their thirty years service followed by plenty more in privatisation inc. EWS, FL and Virgin. After that a decent number went to Hungary and Bulgaria - that's where the Arnold guys come in so that as many variants can be squeezed out of the tooling as possible. TT was always the scale of choice in the East before the fall of the Iron Curtain and the mods to the locos in Bulgaria make them the best looking 86s out there.
I think this is a really good suggestion. Arnold and Hornby being able to sell the same model to two markets is exactly the way they should be planning their product development. And of course, Eastern Europe is the core TT market.
I suspect they might initially choose the Class 87 over the Class 86, because they released a newly tooled 87 in OO back in 2018. That means they would have detailed CAD files, research notes, and a selection of liveries all ready to go. The designer who created the Class 87 in OO might still be around to consult on the TT version. Obviously, you can't just resize a OO locomotive to TT. But having existing information and renderings does speed up the process as we've seen with the J50. Then the Arnold team could conduct some field research in Bulgaria to get good photographs and information for the Hornby team to integrate into their designs.
The Bulgarian Railway Company (BRC) is a freight company that ended up with the majority of Class 87s. They don't seem to care much about the liveries that their locomotives wear, so some of them might seem a little bit familiar to British Rail fans... 😉
Of course, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Both prototypes work well, and the Class 86 has the robust Hungarian TT market to appeal to. It might be the better option all the same!
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7 hours ago, ntpntpntp said:
I think it was mentioned on here previously, Piko already make the ICE 3 in TT so that could be the basis for a Eurostar e320
They have, but their version of the ICE 3 represents the DB 403 and 406 variants. The one shown in the picture is an example of either a DB 407 or 408 version (probably 407 if I had to guess). If Piko wanted to release a Eurostar, they would need to start from scratch. Both the leading cars and the coaches have significant body differences. They can't change the livery to the Eurostar, unless customers are willing to accept a model that is really inaccurate.
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To add to the conversation, I think it's worth pointing out the electric locomotives that have been announced so far. One is the Class 73. The Class 73 obviously has a diesel engine, but it was also suitable for running via electric power. It's a great locomotive, because it's still in use today. It has worn a variety of liveries including BR green, BR Blue, BR Large Logo, Intercity, GBRF, etc. It's a great addition for Southern Region modelers who have lacked attention.
The other electric locomotive announced so far are the Class 80x trains. These are trains seen by people everyday, so they could appeal to people who are just getting interested in railways. A Class 80x train set would actually be a great way to introduce people to the scale.
If I were to pick models that I want... It would be either Eurostar or the APT. Hornby now has been through the ordeal of designing and refining their APT models, so they would have good resources to draw from. But the Eurostar has cross-channel appeal and carries millions of passengers each year.
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6 hours ago, ntpntpntp said:
Would need a catenary system too, representing British style (not simply use one of the European catenary systems). One thing that really annoys me is seeing model locos running with pantos up but no knitting 🙂 I made sure my N gauge system is fully fitted with (non-working) OHLE.
If there's one company that can deliver good British catenary in TT, it's got to be West Hill Wagon Works. Those guys have made new catenary in OO that looks fantastic. And they have even more on the way. They probably wouldn't move on it until there are electric locomotives though. Which is totally fair from a business perspective.
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10 hours ago, Rustyjt said:
Hi, new to this forum so please excuse me if this is old ground. I have started to dabble in TT120 having been everywhere from N to O and via all the various NG branches (sorry!) and must say I am mostly impressed. The option of era 7 scale length passenger trains (that I can actually still see the detail at my age) in B/G was too much to resist. The full set of HST power cars and MK3s was duly put together. My dissapointment is really limited to 2 points. The set-up of the sound and consisting of both power cars has been trying to say the least but impressive now working but more concerning is the lack of visible commitment to sustaining the era liveries already started. It appears the planned 37 for instance is not die to be released in era 7 to matchbthe HST and 50. Hopefully the 47 will be (and in both standard and LL). I feel if the scale is to thrive, suitable variety of matching liveries should be the aim to begin with. I will soon bore of just an HST for example and will the MK 1s be available in B/G when the 31 arrives to allow typical commuter rakes? While not averse to doing an odd repaint (LMS Full Brake now in blue 1970s parcel fleet) or a quick renumber, I just feel that before committing wholesale to TT120, a sufficient planned variety in matching period livery should be visible.
Greetings! On the Class 37 front, Hornby has indicated that the liveries are subject to change. The listed liveries are there for reference, but they're likely to be modified by the time of release. Selfishly, as someone who also purchased the HST, I would love a BR Blue Class 37! We've conducted a poll on the Class 37 on this forum, and Era 5 and Era 7 Class 37 variants performed very nicely.
There's still a lot of murkiness on what they're planning to release. However, something the bodes well is the fact that the Class 37 they used as their design reference is a BR Blue Class 37. You can see the Class 37 and the designer here:
We do know that the head of brand at Hornby has mentioned that they're trying to release rolling stock for the locomotives they release. That is a definite priority for them. So, your point is exactly right!
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6 hours ago, Dave the Busker said:
Thanks!
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Same here. Hopefully they get it addressed soon. I'd love to see some of those Class 37 and KFA renders!
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2 hours ago, ntpntpntp said:
Piko (not PECO) 🙂
In N gauge the ICE 3 models by Arnold can handle reasonably tight radii perfectly well. Kato's ICE 4 had a little problem on my layout, but only the fairings around the bogies on the driving ends (no problem with the intermediate coaches). A bit of careful cutting away of material on the inside improved things 🙂Good catch! It was only a matter of time before I made that mistake! 😂
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5 hours ago, Herbie said:
Not sure what radius the wheels in that photo would be able to cope with. Doesn't look like much movement is possible.
Smaller power bank sounds good, even if it doesn't last as long.
You’re right that some compromise would be necessary. Something akin to what Marklin and PECO did in their HO ICE 4 trains. You can see in this video part of the body is moveable. It allows the train to take tight curves. The same would be necessary in a variant such as this.
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Another great interview! For someone with little to no experience interviewing on YouTube, I thought he performed very well. I was pleasantly surprised. Martyn and Carl were excellent again. This communication is fantastic. I was not expecting this, so I'm very pleased.
A few key takeaways...
1) J50 Sound- I was not expecting this! This makes these models significantly more attractive. Obviously, we're going to need to wait even longer for an undesigned 6 Pin decoder with sound. That could be a while. However, the fact they're designing it with this capability is really good news.
2) Class 47- Seems like the Class 47 is just about to enter the design stage. As someone really looking forward to the 47, it's a bit sad. However, Hornby's plate is full right now. The Class 37 can tide me over!
3) Powerbank Improvement- This is welcome! I'm happy to see them shrinking it down.
4) New locomotives- It seems they have 4 new locomotives in the design stage. This includes two models that haven't been announced yet. Those will be a complete surprise. No clue as to what those are!
5) Eurostar- It's good to hear they're thinking about this. I'm really hoping they move forward a Eurostar. If they want to increase the addressable market, they should do the e320/Class 374 version of the Eurostar. That's the ticket for getting into Germany. Why? Because it is the same design, with a few modifications, as the DB 407/408 trains. That way you are getting the Eurostar model that travels in Britain, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium. He reasonably argued that the market for French TT is more limited. But when you couple the potential for the DB 407/408 trains that operate in Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium, you have a bigger addressable market. The German market is the one with the most potential. DB 407/408s are going to be in service for decades to come. With the last DB 408 set to arrive in 2029, they could be use in the 2050s.
I will continue my crusade for the Class 374 (or 373, but it has less international opportunity) unabated! Here is a picture of the e320, DB407/408, and a Turkish variant hanging out for a photo at the Siemens factory.
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5 hours ago, Herbie said:
The Mk2F are era 7, the Mk2E are era 8 ?
I have no idea if this is correct in real life, did the F come out before the E?
No, they came out alphabetically. The Mk 2Es in blue are appropriate for Era 7 and Era 8. They probably should have labelled them Era 7 IMO.
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8 hours ago, Tim Allen said:
Not sure, the stock level is -64 which generally would be pre-orders. I wouldn't say that it's sold out unless 3rd party sellers have got a ridiculous amount on pre-order. Incidentally the TT6015 21T Mineral Wagon had -245.
Either it's a website fault and we should be able to order it or for some reason they have stopped accepting pre-orders. Strange that the other wagon is still accepting pre-orders, wonder if it's down to a licence issue with Shell / BP.
EDIT - I've emailed customer service asking them if it actually is unavailable or a website fault. The reply was the item has sold out of pre-orders.
Wow! Thanks for getting to the bottom of it!
I think your hypothesis on stockists buying many of them makes perfect sense. 64 wagons seems like an awfully small number. If Gaugemaster ordered 50, TMC ordered 50, etc. you could see hundreds of wagons run out pretty quickly.
They’re still available for preorder at other sites, but still impressive for Hornby to be sold out a month after announcing the product.
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13 hours ago, Irishmail said:
For anyone that wants to mix and match UK and European stock 37893 & 37895 would be a good option in EWS livery. They both worked in Italy from 2001 - 2003 and retained their original livery and numbers. Can't share pic due to copyright, but if anyone has the book 'British Diesel & Electric locos Abroad' is well worth a look.
Page 63 shows the two 37's near Modane hauled by SNCF CC6500 loco with a Lyon to Turin train.
If interested in the book its published by Pen and Sword books limited, ISBN 978 1 52674-469 2
Agreed! For people curious, I'd recommend this article on the Railway Magazine website. It's a great introduction to this topic without having to purchase a book, and there are some cool pictures of Class 37s :
As an aside, the Class 20 looked kind of cool in its French livery:
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10 hours ago, BritInVanCA said:
I find it interesting they have put such specific dates in the magazine after previous issues suffered from many missed dates due to the lag between submitting articles for copy and final publication. Is that not an issue now that the magazine is electronic? If so I think it’s a benefit if we get more accurate dates.
I'd advise you to be skeptical of an exact date, but to take the information as a positive indicator. The article notes those dates are the predicted time for Hornby to receive their cargo shipment at their warehouse. But as with any logistics, there's an element of uncertainty. If a ship is delayed entering port or the vessel has technical difficulties, that could shift the time back. And unloading a ship and transporting the container to Hornby's warehouse also opens the possibility for delays. And of course, then Hornby has to unpack their shipments and catalogue them within their systems.
I'd give them up to 1-2 weeks of leeway after the date for the product to actually end up in the hands of customers. Those look like raw internal figures. This is Hornby's own internal tracking predictions for shipments, but even those can be delayed if certain circumstances converge.
One of the great pieces of news, is that the Class 50s and Duchesses are very close. It takes 4-6 weeks for a shipment to reach Britain from the Far East. If Hornby is projecting a May release for a product, this guarantees that the items are already loaded on the ship and transiting to Britain. The products set for a late June release are probably in the process of being packed and prepared for loading onboard the cargo ship. In other words, the locomotives that will soon be running around our layouts are no longer conceptual. They're real items making their way to us right now.
By July, Hornby will have delivered 3 newly tooled locomotives, 3 newly tooled coach variants, and a newly tooled wagon.
The magazine also suggests that production is in full swing for the next wave of products. The 21 Ton Wagons and the HAAs are said to be in production. They might arrive late summer or early autumn. I'm hoping sooner, but until they're on the boat we can't really know. The Class 66s seem like they've slipped into autumn. So, after the flurry of arrivals in May and June, we might see things quiet down for a few months. October and November are going to be wild. Those months are hopefully when we see 10x Class 66s, green 08, blue 08, 2x Pullmans, 2x HST sets, J50, etc. And that will set Hornby up for a fitting conclusion to 2024 and a solid Christmas. At that point, Hornby should have completed every October 2022 preorder except the Mk 2e and the remaining Class 50 livery. And those should easily be dealt with in 2025.
One question I do have is for TT6028. The website is saying that it's unavailable. Has it sold out while on preorder? If so, then that's actually pretty impressive. Has anyone managed to preorder it?
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4 hours ago, Postman On The Rails said:
It is a shame but as the 6 pin HM7000 decoders are now showing as September 2025, cancelled my Green 08 and separated decoder order. I appreciate they are having difficulties by I have had my DB 08 since the 12the June 2023 and haven’t been able to use it as my layout is Digital at this rate I will have had it two years.
This is, unfortunately, completely rational. I too have an 08 that has sat idle, awaiting the the promised 6 Pin decoder. I'm considering the J50, but buying another locomotive I can't run is not fun. I'm not angry at Hornby for failing to predict the massive silicon chip shortage, but I'd rather buy products I can use right now. It's not difficult to choose between a locomotive you hope to be able to run in 2025 and one you can take out of the box right now and enjoy.
There are solutions to the problem as others have noted, but HM7000 is really really good. I'm planning to stick with it.
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4 hours ago, Tim Allen said:
After seeing both last week I've added the Sir Edward Elgar to the Leviathan order. Both are in DC, I've decided that the green will be passenger only with 4 x Mk2f in era 8 livery and the other will be more for freight. I know they can do both but in my mind that's how I justify having both and not just one.
The Elgar was a "celebrity" locomotive. As a celebration of GWR's history, trainspotters were delighted to see it in its heritage livery. It was the talk of the town when it was revealed. Keeping it on passenger service where it can be appreciated is good storytelling!
There were also Class 47s redecorated in the same livery for the GWR anniversary celebrations. Once the Class 47 is released, perhaps Hornby will let you get the entire anniversary collection!
I've been considering the Leviathan. It's beautiful, and I do love that livery. I've determined that it was in the Eastern Region in the summer of 1981 for its conversion into Big Logo and internal overhaul. That's around the time I've been thinking of setting things up. I was inclined to maybe push things to the 1982/1983 time frame, so then I could make use of the BR Railfreight wagons. Class 50s were pressed into service on the ECML, but only before being sent back to their depot on Cross Country Service. So, it would be a brief window where it would make sense.
Decisions decisions...
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8 minutes ago, Rallymatt said:
I genuinely think the BR Standard 9F will be the best ever….. I mean imagine all those rods and that valve gear, all those wheels, all that black paint that huge tender….. every home will want one 😁
That’s the steam locomotive I’m looking forward to most- it’s a must purchase!
9F for High Fell! 😆
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33 minutes ago, GMD said:
I think the 66 was delayed largely because they gave its slots away to the second batch of Easterner and Scotsman sets. It certainly seems to have benefitted from the upgrades that are coming on stream, compared to the first locos, and yes, for those who were prudent enough to get in with quicks orders - an absolute steal!
Agreed. I also remember that employees from Hornby’s European division sent over additional materials on European Class 66 variants. In order to incorporate these additional variants, the roll out had to be slowed.
I’m thinking these Class 66s could sell several thousands copies. There’s a possibility that this ends up being the most successful TT tooling thanks to the affordable price, many liveries, and European appeal.
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4 minutes ago, Rallymatt said:
@Generic Hornby Username we did discuss this in the International section, Hornby absolutely MUST get a Eurostar out first. The standard of Hornby TT:120 is premium and while I have long been a massive fan of Piko models (so capable and reliable!) the detail is a little more basic. I’m hoping the reception of 125s has focused attention towards delivering a Eurostar. It’s not likely that I would buy one for High Fell but for the good of the scale and Hornby profits I would even be ok with my 9fs being slightly delayed…. 😳
Exactly! I'm hopeful, because we've seen Arnold has the appetite to launch EMUs in N Scale. They have the original ICE 3, Pendolino variants, and they've just launched a newly tooled Italian EMU. Jouef also has a long history of launching EMUs. Hornby could even do a Eurostar project where they create versions of the Eurostar in OO, HO, TT, and N scale. The existing Eurostar tooling is supposed to have been very popular. So popular, in fact, that it's worn out and becoming unusable. Getting a research team together and getting detailed pictures, scans, documentation, etc. would allow Hornby to launch a new model through Hornby, Hornby TT:120, Arnold TT:120, Arnold N, and Jouef simultaneously all from a single product development.
1 minute ago, Dave the Busker said:I wonder if, being a totally new thing for Hornby, the demographic for TT:120 might skew a little younger than they normally have? The reception to the HST suggests it might to me, people wanting to model trains they remember but from a more recent time? Steam being something we've only seen in preservation? I'm early 40s, so it's diesel and electric that I grew up with. Models like a Eurostar could well be a hit for TT.
I think this is probably right. And the smaller scale means longer formations. It's interesting, because OO modelers often direct mockery towards TT because of the express passenger locomotives that are available. But that's one of the benefits of the smaller scale. It's not uncommon to see HO and N scale layouts in Continental Europe with express passenger locomotives and EMUs. As far as I've observed, no one makes fun of them. Along with a focus on more modern locomotives, it's also possible we'll see more interest in HSTs, Class 80xs, Eurostars, and Pendolinos. This might mean fewer shunting/depot layouts and more landscapes. But TBD.
5 minutes ago, Peachy said:@Dave the Busker I agree, although I get the feeling the 70’s 80’s & 90’s might be where they shift their focus. Perhaps the lack of interest of the era11 HST (compared to the era 7&8 versions) might put them off of the really modern stuff?
I think it's going to hinge on the Class 66. If that performs well, the Era 11 people will start arriving. Hopefully, the Class 66 is highly successful.
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Really fantastic news coming out of Key Model World Live. It seems like we've got multiple accessory manufacturers on the cusp of expanding/introducing TT product ranges. I'm particularly happy to hear that Key Model World is still happy with their participation in the TT project. They've been helpful in legitimizing the scale. Their stamp of approval is meaningful.
And of course, Revolution's plans are also exciting. I suspect they have something in the pipeline, or else I'm not sure why they would schedule a TT Talk. And I'm glad they've picked up on the benefits of the scale's ability to reach the continental market. Of course, it's not a surprise they're savvy. Launching an entirely new brand and gaining widespread adoption is not something that anyone can do. It takes smarts. As to which models might fit...
Cargowaggon twins IZA
https://revolutiontrains.com/projects/cargowaggon-twins-iza/
IPA car carriers
https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/revolution-trains-ipa-car-carriers-oo-gauge
IWA Sfins 2 holdall vans and Rfnoos timber carriers
https://revolutiontrains.com/iwa-sfins-2-holdall-vans-and-rfnoos-timber-carriers/
Drax IIA-D biomass hoppers
https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/UIC-letter-codes/T/Tafoos/i-3VxWXkD/A
WIA Arbel car carrier
https://revolutiontrains.com/take-five-revolution-offers-articulated-arbel-car-carriers/
IHA Sfhimmns covered steel carrier
https://revolutiontrains.com/product/iha-sfhimmns-covered-steel-carrier-n-2mm/
KSA Rover “cube” van
https://revolutiontrains.com/product/ksa-rover-cube-van/
So, lots of optionality for models! I wouldn't be surprised if they do the IZA or one of the car carrier wagons. It seems like the car carriers are some of the fan favorites. I do think these first wagons will probably be aimed at the Class 66 crowd, and not the BR Blue/British Railways fans. There's a little bit of risk with this, because TT's established customer base is skewed heavily towards those markets at present. However, the Class 66 is looking really really good. And the pricing for the Class 66 is super competitive. Looking at those Class 66s should give Revolution the confidence that the Era 11 market will begin to populate. Moreover, while Hornby has two known wagons on the way (KFA, Sffgmss... and yeah, you can sort of count the HAAs, but they were on their way out) appropriate for the Class 66, the models proposed by Revolution are meaningfully different. If anything, Hornby should sell more Class 66 models because people will have the confidence to invest. I'm very upbeat about this!
I mentioned this in the YouTube comments of Peachy's video, but I think it bears repeating. I think if Hornby/Arnold fails to get a Eurostar to market before Piko/Roco, I think this would represent a terrible failure. Either the e300 or the e320 are models that will sell well in both the UK and Europe. They can be sold in various liveries (the e320 under DB AG in Germany). Gaugemaster is a savvy operator. They get it. I've seen Simon extoll the virtues of TT while using the Eurostar as an example. I think this is one of the secret projects Hornby has in the works. If they don't, they're making a mistake that could hamper Hornby/Arnold's growth in TT.
That's all I got! 🤣
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2 hours ago, John-L said:
I wonder if we might get a good spread of Class 37’s in the first batch? There are five class 66 liveries (granted that’s a loco that doesn’t have the build differences between liveries that the class 37 will have).
Really feels like BR full blue should be making an appearance by the time that loco launches? So blue and grey MK1s, full blue class 37, full blue class 50 and eventually full blue class 47?
So my wish list would be Class 37’s in Green split headcode with small yellow ends, and single headcode versions in Full Blue small logo, Scottish Highland large logo large yellow ends, and general Railfreight two tone grey/black with general freight logo.
I’d be day one purchase for any of those.
When Simon was at Hornby, he was against releasing too many variants all at once. He believed that if they released everything all at once, buyers would be overwhelmed and miss out on their favorite locomotives variants. That might have truth in it, but I agree that more Class 37s would be a good thing. BR Green, BR Blue, BR Large Logo, EWS, and Rail Direct Service would be a good start, giving coverage over many decades. We'll have to see whether Martyn decides to stick with Simon's playbook, or try a different strategy. He may play it safer with fewer releases.
I think it may also depend on other releases in 2025. If 2025 sees the release of the Class 31 or Class 47, Hornby may feel less of a need to pump out the Class 37 variants in year one. Lots of unknowns.
And then there's this quote that continues to mystify me from last year.
"All announced models will be released and more. Most models are now at the tooling stage. Only the ‘9F’ and Class 37, of the announced models, are still at the design stage. We also have some surprise models in tooling, more of which will be announced soon."
This quote puzzles me. It was before they abandoned "phases," so she may have been describing phases 2 and 3. It depends on what she means by "announced models." Does the Class 60 count? Probably not. But why do the Class 37 and 9F count? They're still not available for preorder. It's unclear. Lots of uncertainty for next year. Which isn't a bad thing! But the other parts of the range will impact what liveries are selected for the Class 37.
That quote does suggest that the 9F was in development alongside the Class 37. Which, given the timeline, indicates that it could be another 2025 model.
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3 hours ago, SimonF80 said:
The 50 and 66 look really good. I’d originally pre ordered the 66 in large BR logo but changed it to the red DB as my little boy keeps spotting the 66 in DB red when we pass Dollands Moor so the idea of picking an era is out of the window! It’s going to be a real mixed bag!
My nephew has seen some video of my locomotive, and he was mightily impressed. I'm looking forward to letting him use the whistle and make the sounds on the app when I see him next. It makes it even more fun to share it with someone! If your son wants a red Class 66, then that's exactly what you should buy!
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6 minutes ago, StuLarge said:
Thanks Tim great thread, wonderful photos. I pre-ordered the GBRF 66, it looks too good!
Glad to hear about the Blue 08 too.
If anyone can ask about the Gresley Coaches? My Mallard is begging for a rake! (Instead of pulling a MK3 restaurant and 50' full break 🤣)
I'm trying to resist the impulse to purchase one. Why? Because if I buy the Class 66, then I'll need some rolling stock for it to pull. And the Arnold/Hornby Sffgmss wagons look like the perfect thing to buy. How many do I need? I'd probably need 6. And if I buy one Class 66, then I probably need another so...
😅😉🤣
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Thanks for starting this thread, @Tim Allen! I think this show demonstrates why Hornby didn't need to announce a bunch of new locomotives in April. This year is packed with new releases. The Class 50s, Duchesses, Class 66s, and now the J50 are going to keep people interested in TT during 2024. Highlighting the Class 37 signals Hornby is committed to the scale, while not giving away too many secrets. If 2025 runs at a similar tempo of releases, which seems likely, Hornby TT:120 will be on its way.
We know of 3 new toolings due next year. The Class 37, the Mk 2e, and the KFA wagons. That's a solid start, and I think we'll see more announced in 2025. But for now, we can enjoy what will be arriving over the next 6 months. Hornby has no need/desire to distract people from what's coming on the boat as we speak. Leave tomorrow for tomorrow. Today, we've got the Class 50s to look forward to!
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ERA support
in Hornby TT:120
Posted
I saw your 08, and to be honest I thought you had gotten one of the BR blue 08s. Imagine my surprise when I realized that it had been a DB 08 originally! Very very good work on that 08. You nailed it!