Generic Hornby Username

No, they came out alphabetically. The Mk 2Es in blue are appropriate for Era 7 and Era 8. They probably should have labelled them Era 7 IMO.

Wow! Thanks for getting to the bottom of it! I think your hypothesis on stockists buying many of them makes perfect sense. 64 wagons seems like an awfully small number. If Gaugemaster ordered 50, TMC ordered 50, etc. you could see hundreds of wagons run out pretty quickly. They’re still available for preorder at other sites, but still impressive for Hornby to be sold out a month after announcing the product.

Agreed! For people curious, I'd recommend this article on the Railway Magazine website. It's a great introduction to this topic without having to purchase a book, and there are some cool pictures of Class 37s : https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/5928/from-the-archive-brits-abroad/#:~:text=Today there are 182 main,another two Class 92s pending.&text=The earliest transfer of a,6000 (subsequently E26000 Tommy). As an aside, the Class 20 looked kind of cool in its French livery: https://www.cfd.group/photos/class-20-locomotives--738 https://www.cfd.group/photos/bb-2000-cfd-autun--304

I'd advise you to be skeptical of an exact date, but to take the information as a positive indicator. The article notes those dates are the predicted time for Hornby to receive their cargo shipment at their warehouse. But as with any logistics, there's an element of uncertainty. If a ship is delayed entering port or the vessel has technical difficulties, that could shift the time back. And unloading a ship and transporting the container to Hornby's warehouse also opens the possibility for delays. And of course, then Hornby has to unpack their shipments and catalogue them within their systems. I'd give them up to 1-2 weeks of leeway after the date for the product to actually end up in the hands of customers. Those look like raw internal figures. This is Hornby's own internal tracking predictions for shipments, but even those can be delayed if certain circumstances converge. One of the great pieces of news, is that the Class 50s and Duchesses are very close. It takes 4-6 weeks for a shipment to reach Britain from the Far East. If Hornby is projecting a May release for a product, this guarantees that the items are already loaded on the ship and transiting to Britain. The products set for a late June release are probably in the process of being packed and prepared for loading onboard the cargo ship. In other words, the locomotives that will soon be running around our layouts are no longer conceptual. They're real items making their way to us right now. By July, Hornby will have delivered 3 newly tooled locomotives, 3 newly tooled coach variants, and a newly tooled wagon. The magazine also suggests that production is in full swing for the next wave of products. The 21 Ton Wagons and the HAAs are said to be in production. They might arrive late summer or early autumn. I'm hoping sooner, but until they're on the boat we can't really know. The Class 66s seem like they've slipped into autumn. So, after the flurry of arrivals in May and June, we might see things quiet down for a few months. October and November are going to be wild. Those months are hopefully when we see 10x Class 66s, green 08, blue 08, 2x Pullmans, 2x HST sets, J50, etc. And that will set Hornby up for a fitting conclusion to 2024 and a solid Christmas. At that point, Hornby should have completed every October 2022 preorder except the Mk 2e and the remaining Class 50 livery. And those should easily be dealt with in 2025. One question I do have is for TT6028. The website is saying that it's unavailable. Has it sold out while on preorder? If so, then that's actually pretty impressive. Has anyone managed to preorder it?

This is, unfortunately, completely rational. I too have an 08 that has sat idle, awaiting the the promised 6 Pin decoder. I'm considering the J50, but buying another locomotive I can't run is not fun. I'm not angry at Hornby for failing to predict the massive silicon chip shortage, but I'd rather buy products I can use right now. It's not difficult to choose between a locomotive you hope to be able to run in 2025 and one you can take out of the box right now and enjoy. There are solutions to the problem as others have noted, but HM7000 is really really good. I'm planning to stick with it.

The Elgar was a "celebrity" locomotive. As a celebration of GWR's history, trainspotters were delighted to see it in its heritage livery. It was the talk of the town when it was revealed. Keeping it on passenger service where it can be appreciated is good storytelling! There were also Class 47s redecorated in the same livery for the GWR anniversary celebrations. Once the Class 47 is released, perhaps Hornby will let you get the entire anniversary collection! I've been considering the Leviathan. It's beautiful, and I do love that livery. I've determined that it was in the Eastern Region in the summer of 1981 for its conversion into Big Logo and internal overhaul. That's around the time I've been thinking of setting things up. I was inclined to maybe push things to the 1982/1983 time frame, so then I could make use of the BR Railfreight wagons. Class 50s were pressed into service on the ECML, but only before being sent back to their depot on Cross Country Service. So, it would be a brief window where it would make sense. Decisions decisions...

That’s the steam locomotive I’m looking forward to most- it’s a must purchase! 9F for High Fell! 😆

Agreed. I also remember that employees from Hornby’s European division sent over additional materials on European Class 66 variants. In order to incorporate these additional variants, the roll out had to be slowed. I’m thinking these Class 66s could sell several thousands copies. There’s a possibility that this ends up being the most successful TT tooling thanks to the affordable price, many liveries, and European appeal.

Exactly! I'm hopeful, because we've seen Arnold has the appetite to launch EMUs in N Scale. They have the original ICE 3, Pendolino variants, and they've just launched a newly tooled Italian EMU. Jouef also has a long history of launching EMUs. Hornby could even do a Eurostar project where they create versions of the Eurostar in OO, HO, TT, and N scale. The existing Eurostar tooling is supposed to have been very popular. So popular, in fact, that it's worn out and becoming unusable. Getting a research team together and getting detailed pictures, scans, documentation, etc. would allow Hornby to launch a new model through Hornby, Hornby TT:120, Arnold TT:120, Arnold N, and Jouef simultaneously all from a single product development. I think this is probably right. And the smaller scale means longer formations. It's interesting, because OO modelers often direct mockery towards TT because of the express passenger locomotives that are available. But that's one of the benefits of the smaller scale. It's not uncommon to see HO and N scale layouts in Continental Europe with express passenger locomotives and EMUs. As far as I've observed, no one makes fun of them. Along with a focus on more modern locomotives, it's also possible we'll see more interest in HSTs, Class 80xs, Eurostars, and Pendolinos. This might mean fewer shunting/depot layouts and more landscapes. But TBD. I think it's going to hinge on the Class 66. If that performs well, the Era 11 people will start arriving. Hopefully, the Class 66 is highly successful.

Really fantastic news coming out of Key Model World Live. It seems like we've got multiple accessory manufacturers on the cusp of expanding/introducing TT product ranges. I'm particularly happy to hear that Key Model World is still happy with their participation in the TT project. They've been helpful in legitimizing the scale. Their stamp of approval is meaningful. And of course, Revolution's plans are also exciting. I suspect they have something in the pipeline, or else I'm not sure why they would schedule a TT Talk. And I'm glad they've picked up on the benefits of the scale's ability to reach the continental market. Of course, it's not a surprise they're savvy. Launching an entirely new brand and gaining widespread adoption is not something that anyone can do. It takes smarts. As to which models might fit... Cargowaggon twins IZA https://revolutiontrains.com/projects/cargowaggon-twins-iza/ IPA car carriers https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/revolution-trains-ipa-car-carriers-oo-gauge IWA Sfins 2 holdall vans and Rfnoos timber carriers https://revolutiontrains.com/iwa-sfins-2-holdall-vans-and-rfnoos-timber-carriers/ Drax IIA-D biomass hoppers https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/UIC-letter-codes/T/Tafoos/i-3VxWXkD/A WIA Arbel car carrier https://revolutiontrains.com/take-five-revolution-offers-articulated-arbel-car-carriers/ IHA Sfhimmns covered steel carrier https://revolutiontrains.com/product/iha-sfhimmns-covered-steel-carrier-n-2mm/ KSA Rover “cube” van https://revolutiontrains.com/product/ksa-rover-cube-van/ So, lots of optionality for models! I wouldn't be surprised if they do the IZA or one of the car carrier wagons. It seems like the car carriers are some of the fan favorites. I do think these first wagons will probably be aimed at the Class 66 crowd, and not the BR Blue/British Railways fans. There's a little bit of risk with this, because TT's established customer base is skewed heavily towards those markets at present. However, the Class 66 is looking really really good. And the pricing for the Class 66 is super competitive. Looking at those Class 66s should give Revolution the confidence that the Era 11 market will begin to populate. Moreover, while Hornby has two known wagons on the way (KFA, Sffgmss... and yeah, you can sort of count the HAAs, but they were on their way out) appropriate for the Class 66, the models proposed by Revolution are meaningfully different. If anything, Hornby should sell more Class 66 models because people will have the confidence to invest. I'm very upbeat about this! I mentioned this in the YouTube comments of Peachy's video, but I think it bears repeating. I think if Hornby/Arnold fails to get a Eurostar to market before Piko/Roco, I think this would represent a terrible failure. Either the e300 or the e320 are models that will sell well in both the UK and Europe. They can be sold in various liveries (the e320 under DB AG in Germany). Gaugemaster is a savvy operator. They get it. I've seen Simon extoll the virtues of TT while using the Eurostar as an example. I think this is one of the secret projects Hornby has in the works. If they don't, they're making a mistake that could hamper Hornby/Arnold's growth in TT. That's all I got! 🤣

When Simon was at Hornby, he was against releasing too many variants all at once. He believed that if they released everything all at once, buyers would be overwhelmed and miss out on their favorite locomotives variants. That might have truth in it, but I agree that more Class 37s would be a good thing. BR Green, BR Blue, BR Large Logo, EWS, and Rail Direct Service would be a good start, giving coverage over many decades. We'll have to see whether Martyn decides to stick with Simon's playbook, or try a different strategy. He may play it safer with fewer releases. I think it may also depend on other releases in 2025. If 2025 sees the release of the Class 31 or Class 47, Hornby may feel less of a need to pump out the Class 37 variants in year one. Lots of unknowns. And then there's this quote that continues to mystify me from last year. "All announced models will be released and more. Most models are now at the tooling stage. Only the ‘9F’ and Class 37, of the announced models, are still at the design stage. We also have some surprise models in tooling, more of which will be announced soon." This quote puzzles me. It was before they abandoned "phases," so she may have been describing phases 2 and 3. It depends on what she means by "announced models." Does the Class 60 count? Probably not. But why do the Class 37 and 9F count? They're still not available for preorder. It's unclear. Lots of uncertainty for next year. Which isn't a bad thing! But the other parts of the range will impact what liveries are selected for the Class 37. That quote does suggest that the 9F was in development alongside the Class 37. Which, given the timeline, indicates that it could be another 2025 model.

My nephew has seen some video of my locomotive, and he was mightily impressed. I'm looking forward to letting him use the whistle and make the sounds on the app when I see him next. It makes it even more fun to share it with someone! If your son wants a red Class 66, then that's exactly what you should buy!

I'm trying to resist the impulse to purchase one. Why? Because if I buy the Class 66, then I'll need some rolling stock for it to pull. And the Arnold/Hornby Sffgmss wagons look like the perfect thing to buy. How many do I need? I'd probably need 6. And if I buy one Class 66, then I probably need another so... 😅😉🤣

Thanks for starting this thread, @Tim Allen! I think this show demonstrates why Hornby didn't need to announce a bunch of new locomotives in April. This year is packed with new releases. The Class 50s, Duchesses, Class 66s, and now the J50 are going to keep people interested in TT during 2024. Highlighting the Class 37 signals Hornby is committed to the scale, while not giving away too many secrets. If 2025 runs at a similar tempo of releases, which seems likely, Hornby TT:120 will be on its way. We know of 3 new toolings due next year. The Class 37, the Mk 2e, and the KFA wagons. That's a solid start, and I think we'll see more announced in 2025. But for now, we can enjoy what will be arriving over the next 6 months. Hornby has no need/desire to distract people from what's coming on the boat as we speak. Leave tomorrow for tomorrow. Today, we've got the Class 50s to look forward to!

At the 19:00 minute mark of the Q&A, we see Martyn answer a question on the Class 37. He mentions they are not yet at the point where they're deciding liveries for the Class 37. This indicates that the previously announced BR and EWS models might not be the ones that launch. We know for sure that the Class 37 is being designed to accommodate releases ranging from the Eras 6 to 11. We can likely expect 2-3 versions to be available on the original release. Those might be the BR and EWS versions, but there also could be a variety of liveries we haven't heard about yet. Usually, Hornby follows up initial releases with further livery after the initial release. So I fully expect more Class 37s in the future. This is one of the strengths of the tooling. Lots of optionality!

I have to say, as an American, TT really does work well with Imperial units. Ten feet in real life equals 1 inch in TT. That conversion makes things so easy. I imagine that’s part of the reason 1:120 scale was selected by its US designers back in the day. It’s arguably the best scale for easy Imperial calculations. Though, the scale’s use is pretty much nonexistent in the one market that might appreciate it… 🤣

Unfortunately, I can't go either. I'd love to see the Class 37 they're trucking in to convention center! Usually, details will slowly come out in the days following the show. I wonder if someone here is planning to attend. 🤔

I'm optimistic we'll get some updates on the Class 50's arrival later this week at Key Model World Live. Hornby will be there with a stand, and they will be answering questions and have models on display. Not only am I expecting to see some of the samples like the Class 50s and Duchesses, but I would not be the slightest bit surprised if we see the new Class 66 and J50 samples too. Hornby usually have all the dates of expected models on display, so we'll get a nice roadmap. People have usually had some burning questions for the Hornby team, but lately they've been doing such a good job communicating there aren't really any pressing issues. One of the few things not brought up in either of the April Q&As were wagon and coach packs. Those would be very useful for building longer trains. But that's pretty much the only thing I would be curious to hear them discuss (and which they might realistically answer 🤣). Other than that and ETAs for the 2024 products, things are on track!

I can tell you’re joking, but if anyone would like, you can actually tell YouTube not to suggest a channel. Hit the three little dots next to the name of the video. A menu should open with the following selections: “Not interested,” “Don’t Recommend Channel,” and “Save for Later.” Don’t recommend channel is effective if you are completely uninterested in a certain YouTuber’s content. If it’s just that one video you don’t want to see, you can hit the “Not Interested” button. All those selections will train the video recommendations you receive. I’d be crazy without those features!

This is a great question- I've actually been thinking of this too! There are certain locomotives that this would really be helpful with. The Class 20 and Class 37 come to mind. Though, I do understand the objections based on actual savings. If it's only going to save 20 pounds, why not just buy an additional locomotive? There would need to be enough savings to differentiate the product from the motorized version. Whether or not that is actually feasible is another question... A similar option would actually be to offer twin packs of certain locomotives, like I've seen other manufacturers do. Suppose Hornby pairs the new Class 50 Leviathan with another Class 50 like the Agincourt. All they need to do is change the running number and name plate. You could make the Class 50 featured in the twin pack exclusive to the twin pack. That way, in order to get the special locomotive, you would also have to purchase the Leviathan. Hornby could sweeten the deal by knocking 44 GBP off the selling price, and price them at 400 GBP for DCC. Make it a limited run of 50 or so, and sell it exclusively on the Hornby website. Would there be interest in that?

This is so true. Exhibit A, I present to you Marklin's 1 Scale Big Boy locomotive. It comes in with a 999 Euro RRP... For the display case. To get the locomotive with that, you will need to spend at least another 6000-7000 Euros. But perhaps a more fair comparison is between two Class 66 models. Hornby TT:120 has their sound-fitted Class 66s pegged at 203.45 Euros RRP. By contrast, Marklin has their HO Class 66 variant selling at 488.99 Euros RRP. Modell Bahn Union has them on sale for 388 Euros. Pretty expensive! https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-gauge/diesel-loco-Class-66-HGK-mfx-Sound.htm?shop=modellbahn-union-en&a=article&ProdNr=Trix-T22691&p=802 I will note that Marklin has managed to retain a significant amount manufacturing inside of Germany and the EU. That's laudable, in my opinion. But there's a price associated with that. They are the Rolls Royce of the model railway world. I think Lionel would be the US equivalent. Those are some pretty pricey models.

You know, I wasn't sure if I agreed with you on this, RM. But after this performance... You could make a strong case that Sam has now crossed the line. Describing an entire product as "horribly faulty" without any evidence beyond a single model, would seem to begin meeting criteria for defamation (at least in the US where I'm from, I assume it should be similar in the UK). He has a platform sufficient to cause Hornby material damage. There's even evidence below his video of people describing their product cancellations. This was not a case of fair criticism. I'm totally fine with criticisms of quality control, lack of flywheels, issues with matching the prototype, etc. But when a major platform makes a demonstrably untrue claim that harms your business... What other remedy do you have?

I posted this on another thread, and then I received a beautiful example of being unnecessarily rude. Here was Sam's latest video title: "Hornby's Horribly Faulty New Black 5" Some of his frustration is completely valid. I know what it's like to get a model that doesn't work... It stinks! But most modeling magazines would then have reached out the manufacturer, explained the issue, and gotten the problem rectified. Their review would note their initial difficulty, how the manufacturer responded, and then explain the process of repair/replacement. They would warn readers that the event occurred, allowing modelers to be aware of the issue if impacts their model. But ultimately, the reviewer is not trying to sink the product. If the model cannot be fixed in a timely fashion or if there are inherent design flaws, that's when the reviewer will become deeply critical. But Sam doesn't do any of that. His title describes Hornby's model as "horribly faulty." Not his particular version of the model, but the model in its entirety. He could have entitled it "the problems with my Hornby Black 5." That would have been accurate. But he didn't. His title suggests an inherent fault exists in the product. That's dishonest. He can't know that. The result was obvious... Several posters below the video describing their product cancellations or their relief at not having purchased one. Also, unsurprisingly, several posters were puzzled because their versions of the new Black 5 work perfectly. It's interesting to hear how he rationalizes it: "Now I know this has been a highly negative review, and I know there will be people out there who will have a go at me and say I'm 'Hornby bashing' again. Well, you know what, sorry but Hornby deserve to be bashed over this. You try spending over 200 pounds for a model and finding so many quality problems, plus performance issues, and then getting down on your knees to Hornby and licking their boots and then thanking them for what they produced. No, I don't think so, somehow. When Hornby produce models that are good, I will give them a good review. And there are plenty of those on this channel. But equally, when Hornby produces dross, I'll criticize them for it. And that's what this video is. And it doesn't matter if there ten critical Hornby reviews in a row, if the models deserve that then that's what I will do. Call me a 'Hornby basher' if you will, and I will accept that title gladly. Because if I am bashing Hornby for this, then that is what they deserve." It seems he has set up a straw man in his mind. No one is saying to stop negatively reviewing bad models. Being critical where appropriate is essential. Judgements like "for the money, I would suggest going for x model instead" are completely fair. I have no problem with, "I'm not sure the price level on this product is justified" (though, he often does seem to have an unrealistic view of what's "fair"). Critiques on the choice of materials, the item's running quality, and the weight are all totally fine. But a video that describes a product as "horribly faulty" is not nuanced. It's not constructive. It's not even critical. It's just a lie. Giving a manufacturer space to respond and work out issues is not "licking their boots," it's just being a decent person.

This is one of the most unforgiving things you can do to your track work. Even a tiny imperfection that is irrelevant to running can cause the whole camera to wobble. I've seen commentators describe filming their track work from this level as one of the most humbling things someone in the hobby can do. I think the track in your video looks great! So cool!

I think the main reason that Key Model World likes to clearly differentiate themselves from Hornby Group, is because of editorial freedom. Sometimes they get attacked (wrongly) for being stooges of the Hornby Group. Those types of attacks tend to go something like, “of course the magazine named ‘Hornby’ gives a good review to Hornby’s latest train.” While in truth, they have complete freedom to criticize any Hornby model they please. I will say that most of the traditional model railway magazines tend to be friendly with the manufacturers. They’ll critique the products, but they won’t be overtly hostile. I think that’s a fair position to take in the model railway world. Someone reporting on large financial institutions or large food corporations should have a more adversarial approach when it comes to their relationship. In the world of model railways, things are smaller and more intimate. The stakes are also smaller and companies in a more financially precarious position. Hornby, Bachmann, and Dapol are not reaping billions in profits. Some like to criticize “big model trains,” when in truth even the largest player is still a small business. No need to be a brute in this industry. But you are right that Hornby Magazine/Key Model World does have a warm relationship with Hornby Group. Besides licensing the name, Key Model World also publishes the yearly Hornby OO range catalogue. They also received exclusive news like the first images of the CAD renders of the KFA wagons. And of course, they were one of the first stockists to officially begin selling Hornby TT:120. They also stocking HM7000 too. So, they clearly do have a good relationship.