The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 As Eric001 has suggested lots of money is required for this project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 No. the EU were not talking about banning Made in Britain labels. That's an old rumour from 2004."The European Commission recently produced a document entitled "Made in the EU Origin Marking – Working Document of the Commission Services". As the name suggests, this is not a proposal, but merely a consultative document looking at the pros and cons of products being marked with "Made in the EU". It does not contain any plans to ban "Made in Britain" labels." See http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/communication/take_part/myths/fact_041_en.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The son of TriangmanCost is a part of life a set of tyres for my car is £550 and in 3 years or less will need replacing it cost £130 to fill it up with fuel every month plus £400 to insure it then road tax £200 so for £12030 is what the minmum cost is just to drive aroung and all of this is items that you can not hold or have for years and years road tax is not some thing to look at or get any fun out of so would £500 for a working model in live steam not be money better spent your a long time dead. If all the money and work that I have put into my schools and west county comes to nothing just having a go is fun By the way I also have an half 71/4" guage GWR King on the go finish its price would be £50,000 so the price for some thing is what ever people are going to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The problem when you go into production though Gowest is that you need customers and if it's only reaching the more liberal pockets of modellers, I doubt if many would spend £500 on such a loco when they could get so much more for that money for their model railway or buy two or three good live steamers off a certain auction site for that sort of money. To make it sell and work as a even a volunteer business you need to make it affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hello all,I have to agree with tsot again, you must work in manufacturing industry too and are aware of the realities. I'll say it again, the setting up costs are huge and I believe, in this case, would be prohibitive and money would drain away.Probably yes, I would pay up to £500 for a new model that I really would like but I would only do it once and only if the finished quality was as good as Hornby's.And how many LS enthusiasts are there out their who would pay even, say, £250? I would suggest nowhere near enough to make a profitable, or even break even, venture. Ask why did Hornby halt production? They either lost money or weren't making enough to satisfy the shareholders, that's business. What would you do?Oh but I so wish it had been a success!!Is there a solution to a new low cost model? Could the chasis and workings be adapted on existing models such that the requirement would be for a new body and re-designed running gear and a new tender?The OEM was Hornby but who designed the concept and prototypes and who holds the rights to the design? Perhaps the designer could help and a small group of enthusiats make something happen at a reasonable cost to satisfy our needs.A question for debate again.Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I agree Eric totally!For myself I have worked in industry for many years and in the family business. My job was as General Manager and IT Director of a London based PR firm allied to some very big Blue chip companies, so manufacturing, banking, costings, desgin, production planning, project management, HR, accounting, and all that goes with are second nature, I also manufacture my own model railway products.I think if a small home or shed based operation was to produce a new body to fit the A3 or A4 chassis and perhaps some valve gear parts to modifiy the valve gear of existing models then that would work. However injection moulds for the bodies are typically £100,000 from design to completion.Probably the easiest loco that would lend it's self to being produced would be the rebuild 4-6-4 W1 "Super A4" it could use the Hornby live steam A4 chassis with a new pony truck and stretched A4 style body with a few modifications. It would an easy model to make. As for the A3 a simple change of bogie and few detail and so on modifications, a stretched A3 chassis and you have Gresley's P1 class 2-8-2 heavy express freight loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Two very easy locos to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The body of the W1 could be resin cast in a heat resistant resin, a simple home job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hello tsot,Interesting, not that I would want to attempt it but as a concept it sounds feasible. I'm by no means knowledgible about locomotives but didn't the P1 have some kind of additional drive on the pony truck?As an educated guess I would say that hornby used a thermoset material for the loco bodies. A heat resistant resin sounds good but would still need a mould of some kind. Could that be produced by using an existing A3 body I wonder, cutting and extending it then producing a mould. All hand made stuff I know but we are talking one off's here.Next time I take one of my loco's to bits I'll have a look 'how to' extend the chasis. This means either making a new chasis or modifying and an existing A3. Con rods would have to be hand made with an additional wheel/axle assembly. I have no idea about the design of the pony truck.I'm an AuotCAD user and have been thinking about re-producing manufacturing drawings of LS loco's and components. I have a very comprehensive stock of spares to work with (no chasis though). Might ask my spares supplier if there is one available though.Hmm..you've got me thinking. What colour was the P1? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They are both good projects Eric. The two P1's had the famous Gresley booster fitted to them to increase their power outputs. They were in fact too powerful for the traffic they were build for and the trains they pu;;ed were too long for normal usage, the big bogie brick wagons from King's Dyke at Whittlesey on the March-Peterborough line. They looked very much like a Giant 2-8-2 A3 with the same boiler I think. Tractive EFfort was 47,000lbs if memory is correct. Livery was LNER works Grey and then the usual Doncaster Apple Green lined livery. Been a long while since I have read the info on them. Interesting and very handsome locos much better looking than the two early P2's.The rebuilt W1 "Super A4" would be the easiest to make with a stretched Hornby A4 body and cab, a different rear pony truck and detail differences.The rebuild W1 is my favourite loco, more powerful than an A4 with a higher speed capability the loco was never really given it's chance to show what it could really do. The rebuilt W1 was surely Gresley's masterpiece, both Mallard and Pegaus(the rebuilt W1 never carried it's winged horse and nameplates for some reason) were pet locos of SNG. A second run was planned for Mallard as Gresley wasn't happy with the record and felt Mallard could do more, a run with Pegasus was also planned but both runs came to nothing because of the outbreak of WW2.Essentially we lost Gresley's masterpiece the final maximum form of the A4 in 1959. The tender survives behind Union of South Africa to this day, well at least the chassis does.The rebuilt W1 has been quoted as unreliable as it spent a lot of time out of service during overhaul but the loco had only one boiler a much improved version of the original 1922 A1 class boiler so boiler overhauls took longer, you couldn't swop the boiler as you could an A3 or A4.Interesting ideas eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 My job was as General Manager and IT Director of. That's what we want is a top heavy company with a good salary say what £50 a year and a pention to match 6 people like that and your live steam engine would be not £500 but £5000 Eric001 has hit the nail on the head high temperature 2 part resin is cheap and lends its self to small production runs Hornby must hold all the CNC information on the component parts and memo's of why they stopped making them and what was in the pipe line of any further projects They may one day dust off these drawings and CNC data disc's and with little adjustment's bring out a new engine if you can make a full size Tornado then a 00 gauge engine should be easy. I see people speak of what they want but not what im going to do I's like a ME club in Essex that would meet once a week and drink tea and talk but how many in the room did anthing out of 12 people only 2 ever put in a finish model. If I can offer any help to anyone like me that's building an engine from bits then let me know here. If 3 or 4 of us set to and started then each might have something to add as to how they got over there problems to build there engine a pool of information would push the possibilities forward for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I would willing give my time and labour for free to a viable project, Gowest. The P1 was LNER Doncaster Apple Green with the normal black and white linning Eric001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I suggested high temperature casting resin Gowest if you look at the posts. The most suitable locos are the rebuilt W1 and Gresley's P1.The rebuilt W1 neing the eaiest to convert from a Hornby live steam A4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 If someone could show me a sensible viable business plan, then I would happily give my time to such a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hello Gowest and tsot,A sensible business plan tsot? Are you probing for other readers of this site who might have been close to this stuff. I seem to remember suggestions of this on the old web site, which seems to have been lost. I heard there was someone who started importing existing sets from China again, as previously sold by Hornby. But no idea under what terms.My idea was to produce a new loco in the simplest possible way, because we know the cost of producing an entirely new one, using what is already there. And this was entirely for my own edification. Any further talk of production would be such that any profits made would be re-invested in tooling. It would be a 'hobby' where you give your time for free and cash outlay would be minimal. At best a small profit, pocket money I would suggest. I remain pragmatic and cautious because Hornby failed. Gowest, you suggest if 3 or 4 of us get started to make something... With all due respect how about that if 3 or 4 got together and decided on a common goal with individual expertise, something might be achieved.I don't have the knowledge you guys have about these locomotives but would be willing to work on some kind of prototype 00 guage LS loco modified from an existing one. tsot you suggest a P1 or W1. Do either of you have any engineering drawings or know where they are available. Even partially dimensioned drawings of reasonable quality can be scaled off to reasonable accuracy and re-produced into working drawings.How about an update on progress with your model Gowest? Any pictures?Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 A W1 or a P1 would be a push over the A4 would convert easy to this type of loco and the A3 would also convert to the none streamlined engine. I would move away from these more easyer type to smaller engines and tank engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hi Eric001Sorry i did not read your reply above till now and you sound the type of bloke that has the best grasp of the way forward as others here just want a business plan? Was hoping to get a video on youtube of the Schools but still designing the new electronic's I can send pictures to you or video of what I have so far as I said before all work has been noted down and sugestion's on what to do. Not counting the hours the cost in parts is about £450 which to me is nothing if I end up with an engine that I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hello Gowest,Why not put some pictures on Youtube for all to see? Mine are at Jan03696 and got a lot of enjoyment out of making them.Sounds like the £450 you've spent so far has been very well spent for you and it would be very intersting to see how you have done that. How long do you think it will take to finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... OOLiveSteamClub Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 To all those who think big money is needed to kick start a new production run dont forget that the original OO live steam Duchess that Hornby based its production on is still running!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UatXL7dw_MkIt was built in 1968 by Richard Hallam who had all the diverse skills. More recently he built a Black 5 aided by some Hornby A4/A3 production parts.My idea is that a group of us, say 20 people, each picking up an element of the production, could make maybe 100 locos much more efficiently than one man doing it all. Keep 1, sell the other 4.I'll buy a drill and drill all the holes. Who can do the machining? Is anyone out there good at soldering or brass sheet shaping or spray painting or...... or..... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... poliss Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 And you'll need a good patent lawyer and a registered design lawyer too.I'm surprised the admin has let this thread continue as you seem to want to set up a rival company using their webspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I agree poliss a good patent lawyer and a good design lawyer too will be needed, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, I don't think the guys have quite grasped the mountain they have to climb to make such a project work.One off models are easy anyone can do that, turning them in production models and getting more than one made is the hard bit.Talk to Hornby see what is really involved in a new model if you are all serious, they might show you just how much goes into a new model behind the scenes.The first model will have to be a simple conversion model for a start that's why I have chosen the P1 and rebuilt W1 as they are easily based on exisiting live steam models. The more simple the work needed the lower the cost of the model, the more chance of it selling in profitable numbers. The first model needs to make a profit so money can be reinvested into the next model and so on. I make my own products and it's a minefield of paperwork, lawyers, logistics, design, patents and a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Taske my advice it's not just a load of blokes in a shed or workshop putting things together. you need Hornby onside for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Big money is needed to handle all that will come for lawyers, patents, logistics, packaging, leasing etc. A cutting die to simply cut the window out of a box for instace needs to be laser cut for prescision and will cost over £1100 to have made on it's own and that's without a press to punch the windows out of the boxes, then there's moulds for styrene trays, printing of boxes for your product, instruction sheets which need to be designed, it all adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 poliss said:And you'll need a good patent lawyer and a registered design lawyer too.I'm surprised the admin has let this thread continue as you seem to want to set up a rival company using their webspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Don't think Hornby will be that bothered Poliss. They, with all their might, will know where they went wrong. They might even be sitting watching and saying "well get on with it, see what happens and how much money you lose". Besides, anyone have any idea how many enthusiasts are out there? Not enough to pose any kind of threat or warrent any legal action, not worth it for Hornby. Gowest has probably got it right. Only one off's for the loco that each of us would like to have and I don't think Horby would mind that. What would be good is that how that could be done and is shared and debated on the know how.At least 00 guage LS could be kept alive in some manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Archived This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
The son of Triangman Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The problem when you go into production though Gowest is that you need customers and if it's only reaching the more liberal pockets of modellers, I doubt if many would spend £500 on such a loco when they could get so much more for that money for their model railway or buy two or three good live steamers off a certain auction site for that sort of money. To make it sell and work as a even a volunteer business you need to make it affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hello all,I have to agree with tsot again, you must work in manufacturing industry too and are aware of the realities. I'll say it again, the setting up costs are huge and I believe, in this case, would be prohibitive and money would drain away.Probably yes, I would pay up to £500 for a new model that I really would like but I would only do it once and only if the finished quality was as good as Hornby's.And how many LS enthusiasts are there out their who would pay even, say, £250? I would suggest nowhere near enough to make a profitable, or even break even, venture. Ask why did Hornby halt production? They either lost money or weren't making enough to satisfy the shareholders, that's business. What would you do?Oh but I so wish it had been a success!!Is there a solution to a new low cost model? Could the chasis and workings be adapted on existing models such that the requirement would be for a new body and re-designed running gear and a new tender?The OEM was Hornby but who designed the concept and prototypes and who holds the rights to the design? Perhaps the designer could help and a small group of enthusiats make something happen at a reasonable cost to satisfy our needs.A question for debate again.Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I agree Eric totally!For myself I have worked in industry for many years and in the family business. My job was as General Manager and IT Director of a London based PR firm allied to some very big Blue chip companies, so manufacturing, banking, costings, desgin, production planning, project management, HR, accounting, and all that goes with are second nature, I also manufacture my own model railway products.I think if a small home or shed based operation was to produce a new body to fit the A3 or A4 chassis and perhaps some valve gear parts to modifiy the valve gear of existing models then that would work. However injection moulds for the bodies are typically £100,000 from design to completion.Probably the easiest loco that would lend it's self to being produced would be the rebuild 4-6-4 W1 "Super A4" it could use the Hornby live steam A4 chassis with a new pony truck and stretched A4 style body with a few modifications. It would an easy model to make. As for the A3 a simple change of bogie and few detail and so on modifications, a stretched A3 chassis and you have Gresley's P1 class 2-8-2 heavy express freight loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Two very easy locos to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The body of the W1 could be resin cast in a heat resistant resin, a simple home job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hello tsot,Interesting, not that I would want to attempt it but as a concept it sounds feasible. I'm by no means knowledgible about locomotives but didn't the P1 have some kind of additional drive on the pony truck?As an educated guess I would say that hornby used a thermoset material for the loco bodies. A heat resistant resin sounds good but would still need a mould of some kind. Could that be produced by using an existing A3 body I wonder, cutting and extending it then producing a mould. All hand made stuff I know but we are talking one off's here.Next time I take one of my loco's to bits I'll have a look 'how to' extend the chasis. This means either making a new chasis or modifying and an existing A3. Con rods would have to be hand made with an additional wheel/axle assembly. I have no idea about the design of the pony truck.I'm an AuotCAD user and have been thinking about re-producing manufacturing drawings of LS loco's and components. I have a very comprehensive stock of spares to work with (no chasis though). Might ask my spares supplier if there is one available though.Hmm..you've got me thinking. What colour was the P1? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They are both good projects Eric. The two P1's had the famous Gresley booster fitted to them to increase their power outputs. They were in fact too powerful for the traffic they were build for and the trains they pu;;ed were too long for normal usage, the big bogie brick wagons from King's Dyke at Whittlesey on the March-Peterborough line. They looked very much like a Giant 2-8-2 A3 with the same boiler I think. Tractive EFfort was 47,000lbs if memory is correct. Livery was LNER works Grey and then the usual Doncaster Apple Green lined livery. Been a long while since I have read the info on them. Interesting and very handsome locos much better looking than the two early P2's.The rebuilt W1 "Super A4" would be the easiest to make with a stretched Hornby A4 body and cab, a different rear pony truck and detail differences.The rebuild W1 is my favourite loco, more powerful than an A4 with a higher speed capability the loco was never really given it's chance to show what it could really do. The rebuilt W1 was surely Gresley's masterpiece, both Mallard and Pegaus(the rebuilt W1 never carried it's winged horse and nameplates for some reason) were pet locos of SNG. A second run was planned for Mallard as Gresley wasn't happy with the record and felt Mallard could do more, a run with Pegasus was also planned but both runs came to nothing because of the outbreak of WW2.Essentially we lost Gresley's masterpiece the final maximum form of the A4 in 1959. The tender survives behind Union of South Africa to this day, well at least the chassis does.The rebuilt W1 has been quoted as unreliable as it spent a lot of time out of service during overhaul but the loco had only one boiler a much improved version of the original 1922 A1 class boiler so boiler overhauls took longer, you couldn't swop the boiler as you could an A3 or A4.Interesting ideas eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 My job was as General Manager and IT Director of. That's what we want is a top heavy company with a good salary say what £50 a year and a pention to match 6 people like that and your live steam engine would be not £500 but £5000 Eric001 has hit the nail on the head high temperature 2 part resin is cheap and lends its self to small production runs Hornby must hold all the CNC information on the component parts and memo's of why they stopped making them and what was in the pipe line of any further projects They may one day dust off these drawings and CNC data disc's and with little adjustment's bring out a new engine if you can make a full size Tornado then a 00 gauge engine should be easy. I see people speak of what they want but not what im going to do I's like a ME club in Essex that would meet once a week and drink tea and talk but how many in the room did anthing out of 12 people only 2 ever put in a finish model. If I can offer any help to anyone like me that's building an engine from bits then let me know here. If 3 or 4 of us set to and started then each might have something to add as to how they got over there problems to build there engine a pool of information would push the possibilities forward for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I would willing give my time and labour for free to a viable project, Gowest. The P1 was LNER Doncaster Apple Green with the normal black and white linning Eric001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I suggested high temperature casting resin Gowest if you look at the posts. The most suitable locos are the rebuilt W1 and Gresley's P1.The rebuilt W1 neing the eaiest to convert from a Hornby live steam A4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 If someone could show me a sensible viable business plan, then I would happily give my time to such a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hello Gowest and tsot,A sensible business plan tsot? Are you probing for other readers of this site who might have been close to this stuff. I seem to remember suggestions of this on the old web site, which seems to have been lost. I heard there was someone who started importing existing sets from China again, as previously sold by Hornby. But no idea under what terms.My idea was to produce a new loco in the simplest possible way, because we know the cost of producing an entirely new one, using what is already there. And this was entirely for my own edification. Any further talk of production would be such that any profits made would be re-invested in tooling. It would be a 'hobby' where you give your time for free and cash outlay would be minimal. At best a small profit, pocket money I would suggest. I remain pragmatic and cautious because Hornby failed. Gowest, you suggest if 3 or 4 of us get started to make something... With all due respect how about that if 3 or 4 got together and decided on a common goal with individual expertise, something might be achieved.I don't have the knowledge you guys have about these locomotives but would be willing to work on some kind of prototype 00 guage LS loco modified from an existing one. tsot you suggest a P1 or W1. Do either of you have any engineering drawings or know where they are available. Even partially dimensioned drawings of reasonable quality can be scaled off to reasonable accuracy and re-produced into working drawings.How about an update on progress with your model Gowest? Any pictures?Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 A W1 or a P1 would be a push over the A4 would convert easy to this type of loco and the A3 would also convert to the none streamlined engine. I would move away from these more easyer type to smaller engines and tank engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hi Eric001Sorry i did not read your reply above till now and you sound the type of bloke that has the best grasp of the way forward as others here just want a business plan? Was hoping to get a video on youtube of the Schools but still designing the new electronic's I can send pictures to you or video of what I have so far as I said before all work has been noted down and sugestion's on what to do. Not counting the hours the cost in parts is about £450 which to me is nothing if I end up with an engine that I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hello Gowest,Why not put some pictures on Youtube for all to see? Mine are at Jan03696 and got a lot of enjoyment out of making them.Sounds like the £450 you've spent so far has been very well spent for you and it would be very intersting to see how you have done that. How long do you think it will take to finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOLiveSteamClub Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 To all those who think big money is needed to kick start a new production run dont forget that the original OO live steam Duchess that Hornby based its production on is still running!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UatXL7dw_MkIt was built in 1968 by Richard Hallam who had all the diverse skills. More recently he built a Black 5 aided by some Hornby A4/A3 production parts.My idea is that a group of us, say 20 people, each picking up an element of the production, could make maybe 100 locos much more efficiently than one man doing it all. Keep 1, sell the other 4.I'll buy a drill and drill all the holes. Who can do the machining? Is anyone out there good at soldering or brass sheet shaping or spray painting or...... or..... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 And you'll need a good patent lawyer and a registered design lawyer too.I'm surprised the admin has let this thread continue as you seem to want to set up a rival company using their webspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I agree poliss a good patent lawyer and a good design lawyer too will be needed, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, I don't think the guys have quite grasped the mountain they have to climb to make such a project work.One off models are easy anyone can do that, turning them in production models and getting more than one made is the hard bit.Talk to Hornby see what is really involved in a new model if you are all serious, they might show you just how much goes into a new model behind the scenes.The first model will have to be a simple conversion model for a start that's why I have chosen the P1 and rebuilt W1 as they are easily based on exisiting live steam models. The more simple the work needed the lower the cost of the model, the more chance of it selling in profitable numbers. The first model needs to make a profit so money can be reinvested into the next model and so on. I make my own products and it's a minefield of paperwork, lawyers, logistics, design, patents and a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Taske my advice it's not just a load of blokes in a shed or workshop putting things together. you need Hornby onside for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Big money is needed to handle all that will come for lawyers, patents, logistics, packaging, leasing etc. A cutting die to simply cut the window out of a box for instace needs to be laser cut for prescision and will cost over £1100 to have made on it's own and that's without a press to punch the windows out of the boxes, then there's moulds for styrene trays, printing of boxes for your product, instruction sheets which need to be designed, it all adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 poliss said:And you'll need a good patent lawyer and a registered design lawyer too.I'm surprised the admin has let this thread continue as you seem to want to set up a rival company using their webspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Don't think Hornby will be that bothered Poliss. They, with all their might, will know where they went wrong. They might even be sitting watching and saying "well get on with it, see what happens and how much money you lose". Besides, anyone have any idea how many enthusiasts are out there? Not enough to pose any kind of threat or warrent any legal action, not worth it for Hornby. Gowest has probably got it right. Only one off's for the loco that each of us would like to have and I don't think Horby would mind that. What would be good is that how that could be done and is shared and debated on the know how.At least 00 guage LS could be kept alive in some manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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