Train-Tech signals out of sync with RailMaster diagram

[pd91223]

I have a number of Train-Tech signals, 3 of which I want to work in sync with one another. At times they'll all need to be red. When #20 is switched to green then both of the other 2 signals (#22 & #23) need to go red. When #22 is switched to green then #20 & #23 need to go red and (yes, you've guessed it) when #23 is switched to green then #20 & #22 need to go red.

 

The signals all work independently without any problems. However, when I set up the appropriate logic in Other Points/Signals the diagram works but the signals show the opposite (e.g. when I switch #20 to green #22 & #23 also go green, although on the diagram they go red). If i reverse the logic then the signals work but the diagram is reversed.

 

I've tried reporting this via the help process inside RailMaster, but I've had no acknowledgment/response even though it says the report has gone through ... but then they've had trouble emailing me before. Has anyone else seen this problem before and found a sensible solution - not one that confuses!

[Chrissaf]

It would really help the members who can answer this if you could post an image of ALL the signal configuration boxes in your RM track layout design screen.

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One thing to check prior to posting images. It has been discovered during resolving other members signalling issues that there was a syntax error in the way their "OtherPoints/Signals" dialogue boxes were configured. For this feature to work correctly, there MUST be a colon " : "character present in the configured command (colon is a double vertical dot).

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An example screen shot showing these colons in their correct locations is reproduced below:

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/media/tinymce_upload/65a4e6ac809d86d0ef5040d172dbe15f.jpg

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If any of your configuration entries have these colons missing after the word Signal (also the Point command if used must have the colon too), type them in and resave your track plan before testing again.

[BagEndJct]

I have had various issues with Train-Tech signals and Railmaster. The last obscure problem I had was successfuly cured by registering the signals to brand new ID numbers, not used before. I think there must have been some sort of corruption within the track plan and signal set ups on the old numbers. Worth a try?

[pd91223]

@Chrissaf

I'll check this later today and report back with images (which presumaably won't be published until next week). From memory I don't remember seeing the colons, but surely if these signal ids are being selected from a pre-populated drop-down list then the colons should already be there or it's a bug in the software that should've been fixed some time ago?! The points that I've associated with the signal logic work perfectly.

 

@BagEndJct

I'd created a completely new plan (a simple circle with 2 signals, no points), albeit with the same signal ids as have been failing, and that exhibited the same "out of sync" problem, namely for signal id1 "green, signal id2, green" gives red on signal id2 when signal id1 is switched to green (green on the diagram) & "green, signal id2, red" gives green on signal id2 when signal id1 is switched to green (red on the diagram). As I've said above I'll check for the colons & supply images, but I'll also try a completely new test with different ids.

 

Paul

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Paul, 

I think you have rediscovered a bug which has been reported to HRMS in the past and is still outstanding. Another Forum member, PJ, has done a lot of testing of Traintech signals, but he is currently "off-the-air" due to moving house. This thread https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/11612/?p=1 shows a lot of the testing he did, and a few comments by other members, including myself.

 

Ray

[Chrissaf]

.....if these signal IDs are being selected from a pre-populated drop-down list then surely the colons should already be there.......

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Quite correct, If you have selected from a drop down list they should be there. In the previous cases where they were missing, it was because the user had typed them in manually themselves. I only mentioned it as a possibilty as your original post wasn't detailed with regard the configuration methodology you had used.

[pd91223]

@St1ngr4y

Crikes that's a hell of a post to assimilate for my poor old brain! I'll have a read through later. I think my problem is a very simple for anyone with 2 Train-Tech signals to replicate manually. Images to follow.

Paul

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Paul,

I thought I would try to help with your specific problem by creating a new layout plan containing only three signals, containing the addresses of three of my own signals. When I tried to make the new plan the "start-up" track plan, I got this message....

 

/media/tinymce_upload/fb19f9c5d8f8c771451ab521b1b0182d.png

 

The message is repeated when I exit from the editor. I have since managed to overcome the problem by adding a couple of track pieces to the plan, so I'll post again when I have done some testing.

 

Ray

 

HRMS any comment ?

[St1ngr4y]

Hello again Paul,

Here are the results of some tests I have just carried out using my signals 103 106 and 107:-

 

/media/tinymce_upload/76e6737ea303c6f93bdb5424ad3f6052.png

Different outcomes seem to occur depending on the order you click the icons. In the first test, I clicked each icon to change to green then immediately clicked the same icon again to switch back to red. In the second test I clicked each icon once each to change them to green, then clicked each one again in turn to change them back to red. You will notice a couple of boxes where the outcome of the icon is marked "Green/Red". In this instance the icon was showing red, and when clicked it changed briefly to green then bacvk to red. I can understand this in a way, because this highlights another bug in the software, which also happens when signals are changed by programs. In the configuration window, the middle column is used to define the sequence of the light changes each time the icon is clicked. It is more noticeable when you configure a 3- or 4-aspect signal, as there will be 3 or 4 entries in the table, rather than just two. The fault is that when a signal aspect is changed by another point/signal or by a program, rather than by a click on the icon, the "next click" variable in the software for that signal is not updated, so gets out of step with what the icon is showing. So these two occurences in the testing are clicks where the signal was last changed by another signal.

Hope that makes sense  😆

 

Ray

[pd91223]

@St1ngr4y

Just what I've been getting, i.e. differences between Icon on diagram & Actual on signals. I've just reset  a Train-Tech DS6 (2 heads) to ids 1&2 (picture to follow when approved):

/media/tinymce_upload/822a9ee9acd56a651d139706af9bcde9.jpg

The track & signals shown on the left are actually impossible to achieve, because when id1 is switched to green id2 immediately goes green too!

So, starting from both red, click id1 to green on Icon, id2 goes red on Icon but green on Actual. Click id2 to green on Icon, id1 goes red on Icon but stays green on Actual.

Surely this is clear enough for a bug to be fixed! If you're able to report this please do so, because my system can't.

[pd91223]

My response is held up by image moderation!

[BagEndJct]

@St1ngr4y

 

Ray,

 

I noticed for the first signal you have Decoder Type set up as 'Train Tech Colour Light Signal'; the second signal as 'Train-Tech PC2 4-Port Decoder'; and the third as 'Hornby R8247 4-Port Decoder'. Might that have affected your tests? 

 

Like you, I think, I am relying more and more on programs to achieve the desired results!

[pd91223]

As you'll see from my test, once moderated, I used a single Train-Tech dual-headed DS6. This is effectively two 2 Aspect Home signals. I gave them ids 1 & 2 (both setup as "Train Tech Colour Light Signal") and they exhibited similar results to Ray's, namely a discrepancy between what's on the Icon on the RailMaster diagram and what's on the Actual signals themselves! So there is clearly a bug which needs to be fixed, Any hope??

Paul

[St1ngr4y]

@St1ngr4y

 

Ray,

 

I noticed for the first signal you have Decoder Type set up as 'Train Tech Colour Light Signal'; the second signal as 'Train-Tech PC2 4-Port Decoder'; and the third as 'Hornby R8247 4-Port Decoder'. Might that have affected your tests? 

 

Like you, I think, I am relying more and more on programs to achieve the desired results!

Oops well spotted  ☹️ I uploaded the wrong image file. After the initial tests, I decided to try different decoders to see what happens, and created a new image file. It was this one I uploaded by mistake. The original test, however, was definitely carried out using all Traintech decoders...

 

/media/tinymce_upload/dd0a220202a2a3087d546ad2983b665e.png

... and yes, the faults reported by PJ months ago are still outstanding. However, a recent email from HRMS regarding another problem, stated that v 1.70 will contain bug fixes and a few new features.

So one can hope  😉

 

Ray

[BagEndJct]

@St1ngr4y

 

Ray,

 

I didn't mean to catch you out!!

 

Latest Train-Tech signal problem for me, which is really a repeat of one before, I think. I have one double-headed home signal. In effect they are two separate home signals. They behaved correctly when clicked on the layout plan. However, with one of them, when trying to set it to "Stop" from a programme, would briefly go red then immediately back to green again. In a different program, where it is set to "Clear", it correctly stayed on green!

 

So I practised what I preached and changed the address of the rogue signal. Voila, it's now working correctly both from programs and from the icon on the layout plan. The mysteries of Railmaster and Train-Tech signals!

 

Next!

 

By the way, for what it's worth:- I have  recording of a signal box bell (there is a selection of these to be found online). At the end of each program, I get it to play that sound. It sounds good but, more importantly, it tells me that the program has finished running. I find that very useful.

 

John

[St1ngr4y]

Hi John,

 

"I didn't mean to catch you out!! "

 

No offence taken at all - it was just an age thing.

 

I found a signal box bell sound, which I played around with so I now have two sound files - 1 bell and 4 bells - which I use at the beginning of a couple of Express non-stop train programs.

 

I use one of the Railmaster-provided "chime" sounds in my programs quite a lot to give an audible indication. There is an undocumented command available to programs "Pause message". I use this to stop trains under program control in the station or goods yard. This command works by displaying a message on the screen saying "Press enter to continue" and it pauses execution of the program. So in the program, I use the decelerate command to slow the train to a crawl just before the stopping point. Then the Pause command is obeyed. In the program this command is followed immediately by a loco stop command, then by any other commands needed in the program. I precede the Pause command by one second by a Play Sound Chimes command. At this point, I keep my finger on the Enter key on the pc keyboard, then press it when the train gets to the stop point. There is one flaw with this command. While the pause is in operation, the program timer clock keeps going, so if there are a few other commands at, say, one second intervals after the Loco Stop command, and the pause has been running for say, 3 or 4 seconds, then when the pause is released by the Enetr key press, the program execution process tries to catch up with the clock by executing all of these commands as quickly as it can. But this can be overcome by leaving a gap of, say, 10 seconds between the Loco Stop command and the following command.

 

Ray

[pd91223]

Before someone catches me out, there is a way to achieve the 2 signals showing opposite colours by using the same id for both of them (I can post the instructions given to me by Train Tech if anyone's interested), but then it's not possible for both signals to show red at the same time.

[St1ngr4y]

Before someone catches me out, there is a way to achieve the 2 signals showing opposite colours by using the same id for both of them (I can post the instructions given to me by Train Tech if anyone's interested), but then it's not possible for both signals to show red at the same time.

 

The only other suggestion I have for that is to set "reverse polarity" on one of them, and see what happens. I would guess this might get the actual signals to behave the way you want but not the icons.

 

Ray

[David12]

It never ceases to surprise me every time this problem is raised on the forum. I reported it in February of this year when it first raised its ugly head. HRMS acknowleged it as a "complex problem requiring several hours to fix". I am beginning to think that should be rephrased to "several years". As I have stated on this forum before, the fault is in clear contravention of the claimed ability of RM to operate "other points/signals". I have, putting it quite simply, given up on RM to carry out any simple IF...THEN logic operations whatsoever.

[BagEndJct]

@St2ngr4ay

I tried my own tests earlier and concur with you and the OP as to what is happening and shouldn't be!

 

I did try "reverse polarity" but it seems to have no effect on these signals. However, it is possible to get the signals to respond as the OP requires by setting GREEN instead of RED in the "other point signal" box, third column. However, that means that the icon on the layout plan is then incorrect. The signals turn red as required but the icons show greem. Obviously, given the bug, you can't have it both ways. Programs are definitely the way to go and my layout plan is rapidly filling up with 50x50 pixel buttons!

[pd91223]

From the various responses I assume this has been reported more than once without a fix. As I can't report it - my system says it has been reported but I get no acknowledgement - can someone report it AGAIN please. I suspect there's little hope of a fix but it'll make me feel better and perhaps others (!!) more guilty. Thank you.

 

Paul

[Fishmanoz]

If you can’t report it via the email in the Help screen, you have an AV issue which you should fix.  While you are looking up the detail on how, either in the AV pdf on your desktop or on AC’s more exhaustive coverage on his separate site (see details in sticky thread at the top of page 1), you can report it at support@rail-master.com.

[pd91223]

My RailMaster system said that the problem had been reported and that I would receive an acknowledgement within an hour ... but nothing. I reported the problem to support@rail-master.com by email this morning ... but as yet no acknowlegement or response. They've had problems emailing me before, but this cannot be my problem.

[St1ngr4y]

I think the automated system may have had one or two glitches lately. On 10th August I reported a fault through the system, and everything looked fine at the time of sending, but I did not receive the usual automated reply headed "RailMaster Help Request Auto-acknowledgement". However, on 13th August, I received an email from HRMS, asking a question regarding my fault, and quoting the message I had sent through the system.

 

Ray

[BagEndJct]

I have mentioned this oddity in passing but this just happened again and I have paid more attention this time.

 

I have 2 Dapol powered semaphor signals controlled via a Train-Tech SC3 decoder which has been produced specifically to control these signals on a DCC system.

 

Without understanding what was happening, I have occasionally had to tick the 'reverse polarity' box in one or other of the controls for these signals to keep them in sync with the layout diagram in Railmaster.

 

This time I noted it occurred after a derailment caused a short when I depowered the layout to clear the derailment, resetting the DCC controller from within Railmaster. Then I found that one of my signals was out of sync and I needed to click the reverse polarity box to correct this.

 

Several derailments later (it's not been a good couple of days) and the signal is still out of sync. In the past, this has cleared itself eventually and I have had to untick the box to get it back into sync but I have no idea what happened to correct this!