Turning sound on one loco activates sound on Vent Van

[BagEndJct]

This has been driving me midly barmy. I have not really been able to pin down what's been happening until today.

 

I have a  Hornby DB Schenker Shunter (TTS Sound - R3504TTS) set at loco ID 004. I also have a Hornby Vent Van (R6888TTS) set at Loco ID 020. When I turn the shunter sound ON (F1) this sometimes also triggers a sound on the Vent Van. (Not absolutely sure which one but it's either hammer or spanner - I have a problem pinning this down).  Any ideas why this is happening, please? (It's only today that I linked turning the shunter sound on to a sound starting up on the Vent Van without my triggering it).

[96RAF]

I have both TTS Class 08 (ID3) and VV (IDs 4, 5, 6) so tomorrow hopefully I will be able to set them to the same addresses as yours and see what happens. I don’t have a track at present but I can put the VV on the rolling road and the 08 decoder in an ESU test rig.

 

Edit - has your track got a bus and/or terminators.

Also as you are using RM I will try using that.

[BagEndJct]

Thanks! Yes, running RM and have a bus.

[2e0dtoeric]

I don't use Railmaster or a pc to play trains, but - a thought.

Is your vent van hard-wired to the bus, or just standing on the track somewhere?

If just standing, it might be getting a dodgy connection, and receiving corrupted data - the vent van equivalent of dc run-away?

Do you have a choke on your bus? Perhaps a random noise spike is triggerng the vent van?

[BagEndJct]

Interesting thoughts, Eric.

 

No the vent van is not hardwired, just standing at the end of a siding, and, no, I don't have a choke on the bus, so you may well be right! This morning it started a sound without my operating the shunter. Though, more times than not, starting the sound on the shunter does trigger a sound from the van. I'll try positioning it somwhere different for starters! And another obvious thing I'l try is to change the two addresses. 

[96RAF]

BEJ

I have tried the Class 08 and VV combo both direct from the Elite and from within RM, using my existing addresses and then your specific addresses in the OP. No errant sounds from the VV when I selected any function on the Class 08 in any of these scenarios.

 

One thing I did notice in RM-Pro is that I only have access to one expanded throttle. If I select a second one the first one just flips to the new loco. Reported to HRMS.

 

I have seen random TTS sounds without command before on my old Cyprus roundy-round track, which had a rough kind of star bus feeding loop to loop, but no terminators. I have also experianced DC runaway and uncommanded sounds and lights on the same layout when programming a loco on the isolated prog-track.

 

I would suggest you look at Chris's DIY terminator/choke guide somewhere on the forum and hang a set on each end of your bus. I shall plan them into my new layout wiring..

[Chrissaf]

I would suggest you look at Chris's DIY terminator/choke guide somewhere on the forum and hang a set on each end of your bus.

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To save looking it up.

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Snubber, Terminator, Filter..........different name same function. A 'choke' is something different and consists of an inductor in series with the DCC feed (rather than in parallel like a snubber) and works in a different way to a 'snubber'.

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Snubber/Filter theory in DCC can be read here (written by Mark Gurrie a member of the NMRA):

 

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Alternatively, if the DCC Controller is located at the end of a Bus as opposed to being at the centre of a T Bus, then only a single snubber need be used. This can be beneficial as each snubber that is installed passes about 100mA of current on a live DCC feed. This is why the resistor has such a high wattage rating and will get very warm to the touch in normal use. This amount of drawn idle current can eat into the controllers current capacity to control locos. So really needs a controller with a 4 Amp, rather than 1 Amp power supply.

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[Fishmanoz]

It would be good if someone moved Metman’s different content to its own thread as BEJ’s problem is yet to be resolved?

 

BEJ, while you are getting to fitting snubber/s, have you tried changing the VV address to see if the problem persists?

[MetmanUK]

It would be good if someone moved Metman’s different content to its own thread as BEJ’s problem is yet to be resolved?

 

BEJ, while you are getting to fitting snubber/s, have you tried changing the VV address to see if the problem persists?

 

My reason for commenting on this thread is because I think the issue we are experiencing is the same.  Ie some form of incorrect ID being generated by RM.  It hasn't been reported before so I assume it only happens in certain circumstances which at the moment I cannot work out.  BUT it is repeatable.  Also, as both points (with the same ID) operated I deduce that it is not the point motor(s) or signals that are wrong.

[96RAF]

For info Fishy and BEJ

Further testing - I have VVs on addresses 4, 5, 6 and 22, and a Class 20 on address 20, which I tried versus the Class 08.

I also tried VV 22 on address 20 and changed the Class 08 address to same as BEJs, but no uncommanded sounds were heard when a random selection of some of my other TTS decoders of any address was tried.

This was all done using the Elite direct as listing that lot with new addresses in RM and reverting them to their original adresses is a pest.

 

Metman - your post (except your comment directly above) has been moved to its own topic Signals changing points in RM uncommanded, where it will draw more directed answers.

[BagEndJct]

Thanks for all the input on this.

 

I have been sidetracked over the last couple of days but will get back to this little poser tomorrow. Meanwhile, I did a bit of running yesterday. The first thing I did was turn on the sound on the Class 08 and, guess what, on came the air spanner (I think!) on the VV. 

 

Hopefully more on this tomorrow.

[96RAF]

A thought has just occurred to me about this...

 

I know you are using eLink with RM, but when using a Select which has no indicator for which sound is selected you can often leave a loco/vv with a sound selected and this plays on its own later as the decoder acts on its last selected configuration by command.

 

RM is infamous for getting the throttle function buttons display out of synch with what the actual vehicle has in its memory. Hence even though a sound looks to be off it may actually be on. If that sound is a spot sound (play once) then it will chirp up now and again, but why it seems to be triggered by the Class 08 I have no idea.

 

I would run a reset on the vv via RM. You can read the CVs then write value 5 or 8 to CV8 regardless of any warnings in RM.

[BagEndJct]

<RM is infamous for getting the throttle function buttons display out of synch with what the actual vehicle has in its memory.>

 

That's part of the problem, knowing what sound is playing. I find it very difficult controlling the sounds of the VV in RM. As you say, it does not know or remember what sound is playing and many sounds take a while to "turn off". Maybe I should be more patient when trying to narrow down which sound it is! It would be nice if the STOP button could be used to turn all sounds on or off, or even just have an F button to do same!

 

So far the VV has provided more frustration for me rather than pleasure!

[Rog RJ]

My knowledge of TTS is quite limited but I understand a TTS decoder can play only 2 sounds at the same time - is this correct for the vent van?

If so, switch on 2 sounds and then switch those same 2 sounds off.  Logically, this should clear any other unknown sounds and prevent them playing.

[96RAF]

TTS VV should really be triple track sound as it can play any of three sound channels, whether loop or spot sound i.e. play through once.

 

As stated some of the play once sounds take a long time to play through - play out times are listed in the manual.

 

Now comes the crunch because if you select two loop sounds then ask for a third the telephone bell rings to warn you of that, then the third one plays, but if you have a spot sound already playing out that affects the situation. Also if you hit play for any sound and immediately select it again then that one sound playing twice occupies two channels.

 

Resetting both the controller and the VV should put all functions and their selections to off.

 

Confused...?

Now imagine what a mess you can get into when RM skips a command if you are playing VV sounds using a program.

[BagEndJct]

OK. I changed the address of the shunter to 44 and have done a few tests turning sound on and off without trigerring anything on the VV. However, I had cause to reboot the E-link and the Vent Van started "air spannering". When I opened the throttle window I was surprised to find the the appropriate button highlighted as "on". I pressed the button and it went silent.

 

There have been no more random incidents but will continue to test....... 

[96RAF]

That was it then BEJ, RM had a covert air spanner selection running without the function button being greened up on screen. If you really switch everything off then there are no random noises.