Go_West Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/4b5ca780f56022e4969d754761b38730.jpgWhile I’m waiting for parts to build the new electronic PCB I thought I might think about how I was going to pick up power from the rails and as a small 8 year old I had a Tri-ang train set which I still have and the engines had metal strips contacting the inside wheel flanges and thought why reinvent the wheel this could be just as good away as any so if in the drawing here I made up a strip of printed board with 2 screw holes to fix it to the bottom of the engine it will need some spacers to keep it from fouling other parts of the engine and soldered to this some bronze or spring copper contacts one set can go straight down to earth via the 2 fixing screws the other set of contact can have a brass strip soldered to the strip and bent to take the power up to a contact board with 4 pins so that all the major connection can be terminated here and the electronics can be easy unplugged./media/tinymce_upload/7d5a35439d61ecd8de9c908dee63b4c0.jpgI have included an oil hole in the board so you can get access to the middle axle bearing which unlike the front and rear bearings goes from one side of the chassis to the other and the axle has an under cut so a good amount of oil can be retained in the bearing. The other bearings are short and do not go completely across the chassis I have a small drawing of this here so I think its best to oil the front and rear bearing between the wheels and bearing to use the centre oil points can leave oil dripping into the wrong area of the engine and do no good what so ever in my case in the rear bearing it would come into contact with the servo PCB and could cause trouble later on. I find a good oil for these bearings is GTX which has a good sticky film type lubricant and temperature range but that’s my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I don’t suppose most folk appreciate the amount of work that goes into the basics of building an engine Ken, like oiling the bearings and gathering power from the rails. Every bit as essential as the innovative bits like the circuit boards and boiler build. Looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 RobThinking of the oiling and of the Great Western and that it is thought they like other railway companies were building the best steam engines in the world the rear axle should be covered just to make shore oil never gets to the electronics so the drawing here is what I propose to do which is make a thin sleeve and totally enclose the axle so keeping oil away from the PCB./media/tinymce_upload/84d35e290e87cb8f6cc2db068864cd2b.jpgI have now split the PCB components into 2 making one side of the PCB the power supply and the other the side the servo control for the electric motor this way I can make the PCB much smaller so that it fits in the chassis the PCB’s are as below fig 1 is the power unit side and fig 2 is the servo control unit side. You might be able to see the wire links taking the power from one side of the board to the other there are 3 in all./media/tinymce_upload/1fb56ece4754bacd1e1937d80addc38d.jpgFig1/media/tinymce_upload/efc0a54105f18ff27e76bce474c17a87.jpgFig 2Heat can be a problem with these small components along with oil and water Hornby managed to keep there servo control PCB in a good place which was in the cab but this engine is a bit short on space and I have found in the past that under the chassis is a good place for the electronics./media/tinymce_upload/95ef430253ddba2451abae0fe552111c.jpgTo give you an idea of the size we are down to now I have included a picture of the double sided electronics board on a Penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 Back in the work shop the Hornby bearings were modified as the drawing below /media/tinymce_upload/585c11082f669d6f0efe54202e3bb1d0.jpgOnce set up a small boss was turned on the inside end of each bearing so that a brass sleeve would be a pressed fit onto the bearing ends. /media/tinymce_upload/d185623069b0eaf6dba48b5116c10b08.jpgWith the components assembled into the chassis the oil hole was drilled in place this was a made a little larger than the existing hole in the chassis as I find this hard to use being so small and by filling a syringe with GTX the needle will now pass right through the chassis and bearing sleeve so that oil can be put exactly where it should go. /media/tinymce_upload/27b596622f62f4a0961171017dff8290.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/5c5dc5970abffe272ed3276bab264228.jpgLooking into the chassis in this picture you can now see the brass sleeve covering the axle completely this small area will need some insulation made up like a box to cover the metal surfaces so that the small electronic motor control unit will not short out as the engine we hope runs round the track./media/tinymce_upload/b87917404c7feb21aa908a7ac03114ba.jpgYou can see the small electronic control PCB sitting in the bottom of the square space in the chassis now much better than the first PCB that I made/media/tinymce_upload/364898836aab391e7f4fd4ad6cf809ab.jpgWith the PCB sitting in the chassis as I wanted it was time to carry on with the wiring of the engine.All the main connections were to be terminated on a small copper clad board fitted to a bracket on the side of the servo unit. This small PCB will have the heater wires soldered to it along with the indicator light wire from the oil tank switch and the electric motor connections. The power from the wheels will only be one wire to be soldered to this board as the other connection will be by the earth down to the chassis and the 2 screw will pick up this other power connection.In the picture here you see this small termination board all the wires from the 2 PCB’s will be connected by way of a 4 pin plug to make servicing a little more easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 What will stop the bearing tubes from turning and dumping oil out of the oil filler holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 Roggood point I was hoping that the bearings being a press fit might stay in place in the chassis and not turn the only way to make sure that it stays put might be to add a short tube soldered to the brass sleeve and hanging all the way out the chassis and the power pick up board also, will have a look and make up the part for this mod.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 How about soldering a short length of tube into the filler hole to aid topping up with oil and also prevent rotation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 If the bearings/tube assy turns in the frame Ken, then you would have to have a combination of bad tolerances working against you. I would suck it and see for now. Look for an answer if and when you definitely have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 RAF 96 has a good point why look for a fault that may not exist but I have only just looked at the forum and spent the morning making changes so here you are Rog an oiling tube which I soldered into the brass sleeve and also opened out the hole in the chassis to allow the tube to poke through this should stop the tube revolving and also making oiling even easier ./media/tinymce_upload/0b29c1a1986966aa6a5c3c14968f842b.jpgThe oiling tube mod was once more put into the chassis and as you see it here it is hanging out the bottom of the chassis a good bit and will need cutting down but I want to see how the wheel contact board fits first then once this is screwed in place I will shorten the tube so that it clears the track well. /media/tinymce_upload/8f17424bfc7824712838c5f8c0224c30.jpgYou may notice the termination board has its pins soldered to it now and I can see a problem with its location here as it will foul the boiler so maybe its time to start the boiler design now as space is getting tight. /media/tinymce_upload/71c41be3dd00d4f0f993d55f9728b5be.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/6ad04a54e5b265c5d4aa486b89df1ba4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 At last back on the GWR tank have been of other projects lately so not much time for the engine but did do a bit today which is as follows./media/tinymce_upload/3f5684a6c6da25014f719258191adfdc.jpgThe power pick ups are now finished and in place these were made from some printed board material with some bronze strips bent at right angels and soldered to the printed board with a section bent outwards to come into contact with the inside wheel flanges./media/tinymce_upload/10595552810a55178c7ec6bce9321fb3.jpgThe connection from the printed board to the small plug board has to be made but the plug board is in the way of the boiler and must be relocated in some other part of the body./media/tinymce_upload/52dc22dd073dd47bfdf928e61acf9dd7.jpg The boiler which I have given some thought to and tried different ideas like in the picture here where I made up a square block of wood and tried this in the body but didn’t like it so opted for the traditional round boiler but with a step in the rear for the coal bunker having said that I have just had a thought that I can cut more of the body away here and make the step a little higher as this will have some coal to cover the top of the boiler when in place./media/tinymce_upload/46f507cb82accd98afd2b177b73766a0.JPGI will have to try the following build because there is very little space left for the boiler and the smaller it is the running time will suffer but having said that I’m hoping that a 20 to 25 minute run could be achieved but tests will show if this is true./media/tinymce_upload/9497137ca9d2fb361fe32169af402b82.jpgWe are not going to have the inside cab area free so you can look from one side to the other and see right through as in the picture the boiler is now occupying this space.but might still squeeze a couple of crew in place with out legs or bottoms?/media/tinymce_upload/f4a6205857adb6bbb912e4119282b303.jpgI think I will cut a new section of tube and start a new boiler having said about cutting more of the coal area of the body away Where the safety valve is going I’m not sure but the water filler screw will be in the top of the boiler with access through the air vent in the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I would have suggested pinching a bit of the rear end chassis area to enlarge the boiler Ken, but you still need somewhere to hang the trailing truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 Hi RobThanks for your input that would give more water space but would have to check the rear wheel clearance it's all getting tight for space I think I will carry on with the boiler as i see it and if this does not give a good run time then will have to look at freeing up space as you say.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Silver solder a boss on the boiler for the truck pivot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 I like the idea Rob could solve the problem of space in this area and as you say with the rear pony truck fixed to the bottom of the boiler the rear drivers might cause a problem and also the electronics would have to be relocated so lots to think about I have cut more of the body to take a different shaped boiler which I will finish but can incorporate Robs if it looks better and fits ok.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/0bd6143f4d1dd09d7de8eac2b64b1437.jpgAnd so with the work started on the second design for the boiler this time the shape in the stepped area of the boiler was increased a little by giving it a raised not flat section to the top of this part this way a little more water might be added to the total capacity (picture here)./media/tinymce_upload/8f9769b7429ffa0b36a33ee33591fc93.jpgThe assembly idea for this boiler was to use the section of chassis which had previously been the location for the safety valve on the A3 models which was a large hole ideal for a single fixing location and this was a large hole in the Hornby chassis a PTFE insulator can be added in an effort to keep heat transfer to the chassis down.This picture shows the fixing components also the front end plate which needs the heater tube drilled and soldered in place along with the steam outlet pipe which will connect to the repositioned safety valve. /media/tinymce_upload/217ed5a4d03744c2e66efd0321fb0ef1.jpgYou can see a little better what I mean in this pictures looking at the under side of the engine the screw and the large washer holding the boiler in place then the fitting of the body was considered as the smoke box is very small compared to the A3 the only way was to fit the body to the engine is to slide the larger diameter area of the smoke box over the oil tank of the engine and then fold the back end up into the bunker and cab section and hope it will all fit./media/tinymce_upload/dfdb4965126fa96f47041d362abc44ca.jpgYou can see in this picture I have positioned the body smoke box end over the oil tank and there is just enough room to then fold the rest of the body down over the boiler all worked out ok in the end./media/tinymce_upload/50f508dd1d2a096e92146504bc5010d2.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/6a681212d3cf755e758b0338f42426b8.jpgYou can see again in these two pictures how a little more space has been gained by cutting away some of the rear cab wall in an arch so that the boiler now has a more room for extra water and the filler screw hole in the ventilator aperture I might construct a cover for this to hide the screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 That is snug Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Your right Rob but still thinking of the rest of the parts and how to connect them up together I think that the wiring board needs to be moved maybe to the space above the electric motor and the main steam pipe from the boiler to the safety valve needs a compression fitting so that the boiler can be removed easier while the other side of the safety valve the pipe here can be hard soldered along with its connection to the supper heater it is hoped.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Maybe you should have built the body in two halves, with a hinge down the centre like old car bonnets so you could easier fit it to the chassis. Seriously though - could you make a clear plastic body (vaccuum formed over a former, like how I used to make slot car bodies) so that you could see where there is spare space, etc. Thinking about it the two halves method is not such a daft idea for a new build as you could solder them together again at the end of the chassis work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 If you are up to it, you can take two photos of the loco, one with the body on and one with the body off and superimpose them in Photoshop or similar to show where there might be space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/82421375edabcc6bbae65c36fbb92abb.jpg I have now finished the boiler complete with the electric heater in place which is a supper heater element which is shorter as the standard heater element for the A3 tender is much too long to fit this short boiler. You can see the 2 white wires running at the top of the engine and the steam outlet pipe running down the side of the engine which is ready to have the safety valve fitted if there’s room./media/tinymce_upload/bde495abf9c6ccd43da37b635fb8cbf2.jpgSo may ideas on how to build along with so many parts to get into a set space but Rog might have something with the cut away view idea so have one here with the picture above cut out and over laid on a picture of the body and looking at this there looks like room for the safety valve on this side view with enough space at the top for pipe work to the models safety valve position what I can do is a second picture looking down on the engine done in the same way to see if the safety valve will fit inside the water tank. The new position for the wiring looks like it might fit in the space above the motor we hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/d520b85f907ef05c8b3e4224a2744daa.jpgThings were coming together and were working out ok so far the safety valve did fit in the side tank and to assist the assembly of the boiler to the safety valve a compression fitting was made to connect the 2 together while the safety valve to the supper heater was going to be hard soldered making the 2 parts permanently fixed together. /media/tinymce_upload/af1e04616626fd729ccf93308884ef34.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/f815ea10c494db4e5cb8523243bad489.jpgLooking at the under side of the engine with the body on you can see the bottom of the safety valve and how snug it all fits inside the water tank./media/tinymce_upload/4391e4e32085ab793d3a7881e97cd151.jpg The other thing to look at is how the connection from the top of the safety valve can be connected to the hole in the centre of the boiler so that when in steam puffs of steam will come from the engines own safety bonnet. /media/tinymce_upload/186086831333d32a99229f4595585f05.jpgI have marked out here in blue the position of the safety valve location and the position of the hole in the centre of the boiler in the body it might be possible to link these 2 parts with a small copper tube and a special brass top to the safety valve fixed to the inside top of the water tank so that as the chassis is folded up into the body this connects to the safety top fitting so i will need to make up the parts and see how much room we have here./media/tinymce_upload/9fb8f9d8e3139c06a6795ba1d630b8c8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 That kinked pipe twixt boiler and safety valve is going to fail Ken. Any way of doing it with elbow fittings if you can’t get a smooth bend due to limited space. I like the way you have shuffled all the main components around on this build to make them fit in the available space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 No doubt others have spotted the dented pipe I did think when up loading the pictures it looked bad and as Rob my MOD inspector has pointed out it can cause a problem it was all fine until I dropped the boiler on the floor which caused the dent in the pipe. As Rob and other might have come across in there working life in industries or even like guards on the railway and bus inspectors they are there to check things are running ok be it a bus or items making there way through a factory We at Marconi had our own inspection department and if the equipment was for the armed forces then the ministry inspectors would check out unit along with the Marconi ones not only the unit but all the related paper work should the Marconi inspector pass your bit he would use a rubber stamp and put his seal of approval next to the label on the unit with the units identity and serial number this would be his inspection number say 429 MWT so he can be traced should there be a problem the MWT stood for Marconi Wireless Telegraph company that makes me feel old as we are going back to the days of Titanic with morse and radio I think this at some point changed to Marconi Radar.As for the railway guards dad once told me of an electric train that was on track not level for some 20 odd miles and as it run in and out of a station which it should have stopped at the guard got on the intercom to tell the driver of his mistake in not stopping the guard got no reply from the driver so still running he stopped the train at the next station using the brake in the guards van and walked to the front of the train only to find the cab empty? No driver but the door on the other side of the cab was open and with out going into detail they think he was taking a leek and fell out.so the rolls of some people in jobs of work are required if only to keep up standards and safety up therefore reliability but back to my dented pipe Rob can I see first if this engine is ever going to work for if not scrap it with out spending any more time on it.Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Press on Ken, but stay on the blind side in case this happens.../media/tinymce_upload/e9da02d36499812e5e03c0b1348a363e.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 Robthat looks to be a big repare job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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