Old v new tool 1/72 Stuka

[Peter s]

Hi everyone, as I seem to have had a lot of time on my hands in the past 6 weeks..... (hmm) I've been building like some sort of madman. I set myself the challenge of trying to model the entire battle of Britain in 1/72 before lockdown ends. Obviously not every individual aircraft but I'm trying to do every one in Wikipedias list of aircraft of the battle of Britain. This isn't as mad as it sounds as the offical list is pretty short. On the British side its Spitfire, Hurricane, Defiant, Blenheim 1F and Lysander (Air Sea rescue.... I had to do some digging to get that explained). On the German side He 111, Do 17, Ju88, Ju87, Bf110, Bf109. There's multiple sea planes which have proven tricky but Airfix do/have done everything on the list. I've added old matchbox versions of the Lysander (which is hard to get these days because its still a very nice kit) Fiat F42 Falco (because the Italians did take part & the version in Hendon was shot down during the BoB) and He 115 floatplane which is being done as a "red cross" rescue plane. The Fiat also holds up as a nice build, the He 115 is a bit of a crude slab of plastic however. Bits are good but the wings are horribly lacking detail.

In due course I'll post pics of the whole set (I'm quite far along and given myself extra projects by doing E3 and E4 Bf109 and being flexible with my time span of the BoB to stretch into the Blitz of later 1940... this justifies bringing in the A4 Ju88 and an extra defiant as an all black nightfighter). 

Based on some comments I made about the old tool Ju87 comparing well to modern kits I'm going to do both side by side as a build thread. I bought the old tool in error seeing "red box" and "bargain price" on eBay and clicking before checking. Its stamped 75th anniversary of the battle of Britain which presumably dates the issue to 2010. I have it on good authority its a 1978 retool of a 1957 original. I've really fond memories of this kit as its the first one I ever built myself. I'd have been about 7 so that puts it about 1983. 

More to follow with pics........

[Peter s]

Post 2:

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As you can see, similar packaging and even a very similar Italian version for the alternative scheme.

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Open the box and the difference is obvious. The new tool has A LOT more parts and is technically quite challenging in places. In contrast the older kit is very straight forward. NO FLASH AT ALL on the old kit and all parts really nicely moulded.

With most of my builds I'm lazy painting the parts you can't see. I spend a reasonable amount of time painting the crew and with the pilots in place and the canopy mounted there's little cockpit detail visible. The stuka has a big cabin so painting it once assembled is quite practical.

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Once built (the new tool is in front) you can tell the new tool is a little more detailed but both look like Stukas. One aspect of the new tool I like is the extra choices built in. Whereas the old tool has the mounts for the 50 kg wing bombs ready moulded the new tool gives you more choice. It comes with 500 and 250kg bomb options all of which are very nicely moulded. Finer fins that the old tool. For variation the new tool gets the single 500kg bomb while the 250 and wing bombs from the new tool are being donated to the older kit.

[Peter s]

Post 3:

Slight tangent here. Back in the 1980s the Airfix kit depicted the plane painted in a single shade of very dark gray-green. Tamiya AS-3 which is more or less RLM76 gray-green is a close match. My original 1980s model looked very like the Hendon version. Very dark monocolour on top, light blue underneath. It was a favourite I kept for years. Initially I was going to repeat that on this build but these days Stukas are almost always depicted as RLM70/RLM71. Where possible I try to copy original pics as no two model paint companies paints are exactly the same shade. I like Vallejo model air for performance (plus their safety profile being water based minimises what I breathe in and what I need to clean the air brush afterwards). The down side of model air is while many of their colours look "just right" some are pretty dubious. Their RLM70/71 gives a big contrast between colours. I used both straight out of the bottle for the Dornier 17 part of my project and was more than happy. However looking at original pics of the Stuka taken from signal magazine 

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You've got to stare REALLY hard to see the difference between the two shades. This is an original colour pic not a recolour (from Signal magazine) and if nothing else you can see why at one point Stukas were modelled in one shade.

Weirdly the pics I have of Dorniers and one of a JU-52 which you would assume are also RLM70/71 seem to show more contract between the colours. 

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The JU 52 may have been painted in maritime shades but the Dorniers really should be the same as the Stuka... I think????? 

My solution has been to do each Luftwaffe plane in turn as best I can match to the photo in question. With the Stukas I've reduced the contrast between RLM70/71 by adding about 1 part gray-violet to 5 parts paint for each one. Thats darkened the rather brown vallejo RLM71 and reduced the contrast. 

I'm a believer in scale colour effect. The logic of that is that a 1/72 model viewed from 2 feet away looks like the real thing from  144 feet away and generally colours appear lighter the further back you are. I first found that with scale Panzers. The really dark grey which is almost charcoal used on the real thing looked too dark on a model. Lightening it a little made my tanks look "right" while technically being "wrong". 

I should also note that when sprayed Vallejo paints are quite satin and the shine can make them photograph much lighter than they look on the bench. I normally dull them down with matt varnish and weathering effects after the decals go on. Between that and mobile phone pics some of the build pics may look a touch weird.

[Peter s]

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I had a bit of Tamiya AS-3 left in a rattle can so used it as a primer coat. Model air doesn't like unprimed plastic. Normally I airbrush Tamiya XF- paints, normally black or white as a primer. This can work nicely on new tool kits as the vallejo is reluctant to enter the panel lines and a black primed model oversprayed in vallejo can have well shaded panel lines for zero effort. I'm using Xtradecals for both planes. The new tool is getting a yellow engine cowl and prop spinner. This one carried the sirens which is unusual for BoB stukas and gave me a chance to fit the sirens included in the new tool kits. The old Stuka is not getting tactical markings and a red spinner. No sirens. Yellow, and to an extent bright red are best applied over a white base so both props sprayed with tamiya white as a base, then either flat yellow or flat red applied next. 

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Cowl on the new tool is now masked off as are the props. Props then sprayed with tamiya green-black which is similar but not identical to the Vallejo RLM70. Gives a better model if the shades are varied a little.

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Final pic for this week. Finished props and both planes with my version of RLM71 . As I said earlier this pic is misleading and the colour appears much shinier and lighter than it looks with the eye.

More to follow next week. Enjoy your VE day bank holiday.

[Heather Kavanagh]

That's ambitious, and I applaud you!

 

No Gladiator? There was a flight down on the south coast at Roborough for a few weeks until they got Hurricanes.

 

Not sure about the He115 with Red Cross markings. I will stand to be corrected there, of course. The type was used to drop mines during the Battle period, of course.

 

I started out with a plan like you. It soon turned into a slippery slope. I am now trying to model everything that operated during the whole of 1940 on all sides. The last stock take gives me 51 kits in the stash, 33 built. Once the Western European theatre is done, I shall start working on the Mediterranean and North Africa. I must be obsessed! 

[Peter s]

Hi Heather- well spotted. I missed the gladiator from the list but not the build. Its actually done and sitting there on the shelf. I've run into a bit of a blank with the seaplanes. The only pics I found were the He 59 biplanes. Its an assumption on my part that they'd look similar. Mine dropping in RLM 70/71 is tempting as it would hide the lack of detail. Its not started yet so I'll ponder. 

One of the reasons I've stuck to an "elastic" battle of Britain is that once I get into "battle of France" territory too badly I send up needing to buy a lot of expensive French aircraft I'm not hugely interested in and it gets crazy... The wiki list avoids our bomber force which was busy bombing invasion barges so no immediate need for Hampden, Blenheim, Whitley etc. either.

I've used this as my source list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_of_the_Battle_of_Britain

United Kingdom[edit]

Only the squadrons listed as Battle of Britain RAF squadrons were counted as being part of the Battle of Britain for the award of a campaign medal

• Bristol Blenheim
  • Blenheim Mk. IF – Fighter Command (night fighter)
  • Blenheim Mk IVF – Coastal Command
• Bristol Beaufighter Mk. I – Fighter Command
• Boulton Paul Defiant Mk. I – Fighter Command
• Gloster Gladiator – Fighter Command (limited numbers)
• Hawker Hurricane Mk. I and Mk IIA series I – Fighter Command
• Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I and Mk. II – Fighter Command
• Westland Lysander (limited numbers) (Opening days)

Germany[edit]

• Breguet 521 Bizerte
• Dornier Do 17
  • Do 17M and P
  • Do 17 Z-2
  • Do 17 Z-3
• Dornier Do 18 D-1 (Air-Sea rescue)
• Focke-Wulf Fw 200 C-3
• Heinkel He 59 C-2 (Air-Sea rescue)
• Heinkel He 111
  • He 111 H-2
  • He 111 H-3
  • He 111 H-4
  • He 111 P-1
• Heinkel He 115 B-1 and B-2 (Air-Sea rescue)
• Junkers Ju 87 B-1 and B-2
• Junkers Ju 88 A-1 and A-5
• Messerschmitt Bf 109
  • Bf 109 E-1, E-1/B
  • Bf 109 E-3
  • Bf 109 E-4, E-4/B, E-4/N
  • Bf 109 E-7, E-7/N
  • Bf 109 F-1
• Messerschmitt Bf 110
  • Bf 110 C-4, C-4/B
  • Bf 110 C-5

[Peter s]

Post 5: (they seem to be out of sequence above hence the numbering!)

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RLM70 applied. I put a tiny application of brown filter v airbrush at this stage just to dirty them up a little.

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Masked off for painting the undersides. Tin foil is very handy for protecting weird shaped parts (like Stuka wheels). The delicate Frog tape is a secret weapon. Its identical to the Tamiya stuff but about £6 for that huge roll. Ideal for masking off a whole Spitfire wing with one bit of tape.

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You can't see the blue in this pic but the masking is all off so the tactical markings on the new tool are revealed.

Final pic for today:

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Satin varnish applied (the real colour pic has a bit of a shine to it) & decals on. New tool is the yellow one, old tool the red. At this stage both make really good models. Where the new tool shines is the smaller detail and the neatness of the parts. Fitting the tail struts after painting the blue undersides was tricky with the older kit but dead easy on the new. The prop is designed to be easily fitted late in the build on the new and the moulding of the air intake grill is far nicer. 

 

[Heather Kavanagh]

That's definitely a comprehensive list you've got there. Like you, I found i was slipping back into the Battle of France, and eventually it just made sense to me to cover the whole of 1940!

 

German seaplanes. Mmm, well, the He59 is a biplane. There's a few kits out there from one of the Eastern European companies, but they don't currently have the right version for the rescue planes used during the Battle. I keep looking, but it remains one of the gaps in my collection. The He115 is much larger, think He111 on floats and you'll be about right. That was kitted by Matchbox, now Revell, and I think there's one from our friends in Eastern Europe again.

 

Keep up the good work. I'm keen to see how this develops. 

[Peter s]

That's definitely a comprehensive list you've got there. Like you, I found i was slipping back into the Battle of France, and eventually it just made sense to me to cover the whole of 1940!

 

German seaplanes. Mmm, well, the He59 is a biplane. There's a few kits out there from one of the Eastern European companies, but they don't currently have the right version for the rescue planes used during the Battle. I keep looking, but it remains one of the gaps in my collection. The He115 is much larger, think He111 on floats and you'll be about right. That was kitted by Matchbox, now Revell, and I think there's one from our friends in Eastern Europe again.

 

Keep up the good work. I'm keen to see how this develops. 

Thanks. I can do much of the list. You might have done me a big favour too. I do wonder if the list is in errror when it suggests the He 115 was air sea rescue. I found a few pics of them attacking convoys early in the battle and a couple even came down over England. Its a big kit. Like you say an He111 on floats. I'm tempted to hedge my bets. Do it in combat colours but take a photo of it with an airfix pilot in a small raft. I'm sure a combat 115 would happily rescue a colleague if possible. I'll need to save the red crosses for something more appropriate. 

The British and German definition of the battle is vastly different. The germans go until May 1941 (when the bombers switched to Russia). The British version is much shorter. July-Oct 1940 more or less. I've decided to start at Dunkirk and go to the start of the Blitz. Say Dec 1940? If I start on the battle of France I'll never finish! 

[Peter s]

Final set of pictures. I took these about 6pm last night and the evening sun coming through the back door cast a nice shadow but also reflected off the shinier parts so maybe not the best set of pics. I've usually found dull days or morning light works best for me.

Both together.... I used a desert base but a English backdrop to try and give the idea of a very dusty field in N.France in mid summer. 

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"Vintage" filter can work really well. This is a bit second rate.

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I'm a bit less confident with undersides. Over weathering can be a disaster and I've rarely seen a good authentic pic of a real combat plane to work out how dirty they get. These are pretty clean. The best underside I do are Spitfires and thats solely down to the 1960s Battle Of Britain movie. They really streaked their aircraft with oil and cordite.

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Based on this pic I did the bombs with a dark green body and dark grey tail

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New tool on its own:

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Shows off the Jericho sirens and the nice moulding of the air intake. 

Finally the old tool:

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Plenty of the old tools are showing their age badly but this isn't one of them. Overall the new tool wins as the better kit but merely on the finer details. The open cockpit is a nice touch, the Jericho siren unusual on most Stukas, the rear MG is very fine (the old tool is crude next to it). As I said originally the old tool was the first kit I made without help as a kid and it was a fortunate choice. This is still a really fun build and very straight forward to build well.

[peebeep]

Special Hobby did the He 59, although you might be pushed to actually find one these days.

 

Revell have two flavours of He 115, the Frog tooled but never released as a Frog kit and the Matchbox tooling. Both have been issued in Revell boxes.

[Ratch]

I really must get hold of a new tool Stuka

[Peter s]

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Not sure why the original set of finished pics never got approval. I'll repost:

The old kit still builds into an excellent Stuka. In some ways I actually enjoyed it more than the new tool although that may be nostalgia for my first ever kit. Where the new tool wins hands down is the extra choices and finer detail especially under the nose and in the cockpit. Things like the rear MG on the old tool are just too fat and the option of having the canopy open on the new tool is a nice touch. Both are fine Stukas though. 

The battle of Britain project progresses well on both sides. Two defiants nearly finished and the Blenheim IF started. I THINK I can pull off something a little bit rare and clever on the British side... no details yet. If I don't fall flat on my face I'll share that ASAP

[Peter s]

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Not sure why the original set of finished pics never got approval. I'll repost:

The old kit still builds into an excellent Stuka. In some ways I actually enjoyed it more than the new tool although that may be nostalgia for my first ever kit. Where the new tool wins hands down is the extra choices and finer detail especially under the nose and in the cockpit. Things like the rear MG on the old tool are just too fat and the option of having the canopy open on the new tool is a nice touch. Both are fine Stukas though. 

The battle of Britain project progresses well on both sides. Two defiants nearly finished and the Blenheim IF started. I THINK I can pull off something a little bit rare and clever on the British side... no details yet. If I don't fall flat on my face I'll share that ASAP

[T2B]

I also struggle with getting good images but the low light has made your scene look really atmospheric and you have created a really good backdrop to your scene. 

 

The only disappointment is a little more light would have shown off your wonderful work. I liked your bomb trolley and groundcrew but it was difficult to see them properly. I am guessing they are from a Zvedza set?

 

Well done on your build and diorama! 

[Peter s]

I also struggle with getting good images but the low light has made your scene look really atmospheric and you have created a really good backdrop to your scene. 

 

The only disappointment is a little more light would have shown off your wonderful work. I liked your bomb trolley and groundcrew but it was difficult to see them properly. I am guessing they are from a Zvedza set?

 

Well done on your build and diorama! 

Thanks! yes... Zveda plus a Revell soldier with dog. The light caught a bit of a glue mark on him I hadn't seen in the flesh so I need to repaint the trouser leg before any close ups. I'll roll them out again for the Heinkel 111. I'm saving that as my final build as I think it'll be the most complex.

The RAF are well advanced. Defiants nearly built, lots of Spits done plus 1 Gladiator. Blenheim 1F has the brown paint on & I started a Whirlwind last night (1977... about ten parts to the kit but 10 crisp well fitting parts). Airfix made a damned good kit in the late 70s. I really enjoyed that old Stuka. 

I've sourced "another make" of Bf109 F. I hadn't realised they were used in number towards the end of the Battle & they're quite different to the E model (also cheap in 1/72) so for the sake of completion I should do one.

Fingers crossed I might be back at work a lot more next week even if its working on my own a lot. Allegedly I might have to baby sit Sky news which will be "different" if nothing else. Among other jobs I do our health and safety and the paperwork for letting random news crews into a building while maintaining 2M distancing is stunning. 

Once these are all built I'm at a loss what to do with them. I'm genuinely wondering if the Battle of britain Flight at Conningsby might be interested? Failing that East Kirby or the York Air Museum might want them. My storage space is limited and finished models just gather dust.

[Dark Earth]

Very nice work Peter.  Both Stukas and the diorama parts look very finely done.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the battle participants.  

Chris

[null_null981707818191]

A pretty comprehensive list of participating aircraft in the BoB (which will be useful to anyone who wants to emulate what you're doing Pete) - however, and I'm ready to be told I'm wrong, but according to one book I've recently read about the BoB, 808 Squadron FAA based at RAF Castletown flew Fairey Fulmar patrols over Scapa Flow and were listed in September 1940 as part of the Order of Battle - which is why I built one to add to my BoB collection. Unfortunately it's not an Airfix model - I don't know if Airfix ever made one - so I built the offering from the company beginning with R.... But anyway, here it is....

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And as an additional thought, if you go dowen the Battle of France 1940 route, as well as the Fairey Battle as a light bomber, don't forget that the Blackburn Skua (also FAA) was also apparently involved in its dive-bomber role.

[T2B]

Although it's a generous offer to donate your models to a museum, it's a shame you don't have the space to display your good work on your models, which as well as the joy of building them I get a lot of pleasure just seeing them on my shelves. 

 

And Airfix did release a reboxing of the Fulmar, which a quick search shows it was a new tool by Vista in 1994, reboxed by R in 1995 then Airfix in 2005.

 

If you are determined you can get a Blackburn Skua, done by Special Hobby. It's a little expensive but it is a multi media kit. I have 1 which I'll be doing after my Hampden as a Dogfight Double with the Heinkel He111 P-2!