Modern MUs

[GWR LNER fan 4472]

I can't be the only one who's noticed the lack of modern multiple units produced by Hornby, or indeed any other manufacturer apart from Bachmann, who seemingly have a monopoly on this. Now this isn't just me whining that a specific class isn't availabe exactly how I want it, it's a whole type of train.

Currently in Hornby's range are the class 153, 156 and 800, but considering practically all passenger services are multiple units of some sort these days, it's a surprise it's a seemingly unpopular thing for manufacturers. I should point out that when given the choice between a 153 and a shiny pacific, most people I'm sure would choose the latter, however I think there's a case to be argued for having something more relatable for today's public.

I'm talking also about the beginners' perspective, people like things they can relate to. My Dad had the HST train in the 70s and 80s, when the real thing was being publicised. It wasn't just a cool-looking train, it was a familiar train, one that he'd seen a lot of and I'm sure that was the case for many beginners back then. There just isn't the option these days unfortunately, especially not at beginner's prices going by Bachmann's RRPs. I really believe there's a gap in the market here that Hornby could fill, reasonably-priced, accurate modern multiple units representing the whole country to cater for the younger modellers of today, for who eras such as BR blue is completely alien.

That's not to say of course, that today's beginners only want modern trains, but in my experience the hobby isn't necessarily accessible on an accuracy level without a lot of research. For me, that's half the fun of it, but I know a few people who would like to be able to recreate their local station in model form, but can't because no one's ever made the trains.

Then there's the experienced modellers, who just want to do present day layouts. There have been many of these in Railway Modeller and Hornby Magazines over the years, but most of them tend to be loco depots, as that's a range that's catered for plentifully, with class 37s, 66s etc produced by lots of manufacturers. There's also a trend that these modellers tend to be younger, perhaps late teens or early 20s, because this is what they know, this is what they've grown up with and like it or not, Sprinters and Turbostars are the same to them as grimy BR Standards or class 47s were to the same age group in decades past. I grew up with Pacers and Sprinters, do I like these trains? No, not really. Do I still want to model them in future because it was my childhood and they're disappearing? Yes, the same as any modeller.

Lastly, just a mention about price as always in these threads. I wouldn't mind at all if Hornby started making Railroad (or Railroad Plus) products with new mouldings. As far as I know, most items in this range are pretty old moulds, with a few mechanism upgrades along the way. It wouldn't be completely unreasonable for Hornby to make a few MUs that aren't super detailed, super high tech, with loads of separately-fitted parts, because really all some people want is the essential resemblance of something familiar. There's potential for new trainsets in the classic style, just with an 2-car DMU instead of an 0-4-0 and freight wagons. By all means there should be the high-detail ones too and understandably that warrants a higher price, but maybe not £300+! Hornby have something special in the Railroad range that no other manufacturer has and that's accessibility to reasonable models that don't look cheap and plastic. The Hall class for example is a superb model, plenty of detail, faultless mechanism and I got mine for only £80 (that was a few years ago mind). The class 800s are beyond top-of-the-range prices, but when compared to the competition's offers it's nothing to complain about.

What are your thoughts? The market for modern day modelling is certainly there, it can even be blended with heritage steam tours if the modeller so desires.

[Luciton St James]

Been banging our heads against a wall with units for 40 years & it’s always been lip service or the usual stock responses of no demand , to expensive , not enough liveries , to small a operational sphere of which none of it stacks up when you consider the ac electric locomotives they make , the pendolino , IC225 etc.

The main thing is that they are not seen as glamorous. Hornby only see the big hittters / they can’t see the backbone of the operation. Can see the class 800 , but fail to see the class 387’s / 700’s that run alongside them. Hornby have never been able to join the dots. You see that with its mk2f coaches, can make the 3 basic types but the 2 coaches that are really needed the RFO & DBSO , they won’t look at / just ignore , just always half a job.

In 1955 25kvac became the standard. Since 1955 only model has been made of the backbone of the operation , pretty dire stuff, emus operate out of every London terminal bar one. Yet in model railways they just don’t warrant any interest. It’s quite pathetic & so every year is another yawn fest of catalogue launches & not buying any new models & building the kits of the emus.

A recent trip to Edinburgh from Blackpool highlighted what a waste of space Hornby / Bachmann are at the moment. On the stock we travelled on , not a single item is made. A trip to Harburn Hobbies & all they had in the glass cabinets was a Avanti pendo , ScotRail IC7 power cars & a few class 66’s. Not one dmu / emu. So again we came out empty handed. This hobby is fast becoming a dead end when it comes to the present era. Biggest fleet orders the railways have ever seen & all you can get is a GWR IEP & a 801 Azuma.

Nostalgia is the name of the game. Making models that appeal to old men with deep pockets is where it’s at. The train sets are as dull as dishwater, nothing of any real relevance to youngsters or new entrants. The IEP should be to the 2020’s what the HST was to youngsters in the 1970’s , but who in their right mind is going to shell out £425 on a IEP at Xmas compared to how much a PlayStation or Xbox / Nintendo switch & so therefore the newbies are lost.

I recently bought 4 ScotRail mk3sd coaches. First new Hornby models I’ve bought in 20 years. The HST power cars for them are old Lima ones with the vinyl transfers ( cost £84 all told ) compare with £269 for the Hornby ones. So the question has to be asked , if they can churn out the old Lima 66 in a multitude of liveries why can’t the Lima HST power cars be issued in LNER / Virgin EC / XC / ScotRail / Midland Pullman etc, I’m sure if Bachmann / Accurascale made the HST power cars they’d be issued to provide a cut price alternative like a flash.

i wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a new gen dmu or emu to be made. For those of us that require these units , we’ve left rtr long behind , they’re stuck in the fairy world of keep issuing the same old same / more remakes of remakes , another Flying Scotsman in different packaging.

The guys at Accurascale / Cavalex , the retailers like Hattons / Rails have more ideas / running rings around Hornby & even Bachmann are having to up their game from being a second rate USA railroad outfit to produce models that get where Marklin & Roco where 7-10 years ago. Can Hornby up their game & produce a showstopper of a present era dmu or emu? Probably not.

[Tony57]

Hi

I have to agree with your sentiments for the need of modern multiple units at affordable prices. If Hornby can develop the complete APT train of 14 units which never made it in to revenue making service in real life then making modern mu's should be must for them.

Maybe Hornby railways should split their development teams in two with half working on steam eras the other on diesel and electrics eras. How many classes of diesels and electric locomotives and multiple units have been and gone over the last 60 years and never made into r t r form never mind the different liveries they carried?

Then there is also the need for modern infer-structure to go with modern electric units, and the question should the catenary system and locomotive / multiple units pantographs be working like the real thing or dummy?

[ellocoloco]

I have enjoyed reading the three posts above and fully agree that the arguments put forward for modern MU stock representative of the railway 'seen' today are valid, however, what is overlooked in my opinion is consideration of what would be best for Hornby rather than what would 'fill' a gap in the range of British outline OO scale models.

Models have to be sold and its no surprise to me that 'glamorous' steam locos and large modern locomotives sell reasonably easily and fulfil a demand. Only Hornby (and maybe Bachmann and a couple of large retailers) will know the demand for modern MUs based on sales of existing models, and on this information they can decide if a newly tooled model will be viable. They must also take into account the fact that models of MUs take up much more space to operate/display/store and this may limit their appeal as many customers may be limited in space or not even have layouts.

@Luciton St James

'Can Hornby up their game & produce a showstopper of a present era dmu or emu? Probably not.' They certainly can! Have you seen the Renfe 470 EMU as well as the 592 and 594 DMUs offered by Hornby under the Electrotren brand? These, in my opinion, are on a par with the models offered by Roco. They are equipped with 21pin sockets with optional loksound.

@GWR & LNER fan 4472

'I wouldn't mind at all if Hornby started making Railroad (or Railroad Plus) products with new mouldings.' Again under the Electrotren brand, Hornby will be shortly releasing models of the Renfe S-114 EMU and 596 DMU that are marketed as Hobby. These will be cheaper, and less detailed models than other recent Hornby Int'l releases, though still relatively expensive compared to what OO modeller get charged! This maybe a way forward for the OO range.

@Tony57

'should the catenary system and locomotive / multiple units pantographs be working like the real thing or dummy?' It would take some research to establish what proportion of modellers actually bother to erect catenary or use it for a power supply. I would have thought that if a modeller is 'serious' enough to put up catenary then they would be more lightly to use DCC for control and therefore don't need it to be functional.

When some consumers want super detail and others want models to a price there will always be a balancing act for Hornby. We just have to hope we get what we want. And sometimes we do.......for anything else there is Shapeways, Railmatch and Railtec..!

[96RAF]

Not modern rail MUs but land based. I have campaigned Hornby to produce modern tram systems which would open up a whole new ball game.

Many cities in UK have their own variant of a modern tram, which are not unlike rail MUs, and the concept offers up a market for associated tram-sets, infra-structure models like urban and city buildings and street accessories, etc, but as usual it falls upon deaf lugs as it wasn’t their principle’s idea.

[Rana Temporia]

A modern tram system would be an interesting concept, especially since the models should have no problem whatsoever with R1 curves!. The overhead part would be the most difficult bit.

[Going Spare]

The quandary for Hornby, I suspect, is the size of the potential market for U.K. multiple units when set against the tooling costs for more than one vehicle and the relatively constrained areas of operation for some. The 466 Networker and the 4-VEP have not been re-run for many a year so they can't be viewed by Hornby as having been particularly popular, in the Networker's case even to the extent of creating tooling for the 465 centre cars and upgrading the existing 466 tooling. And Bachmann seem to have baulked at expanding their m.u. range to any great extent. Perhaps European markets are larger, allowing Hornby to spread costs across a greater volume of sales?

[Luciton St James]

@ellocoloco

Electrotren have to compete with the best & so they have to be a cut above. Given that Hornby own 4 HO brands it amazes me that they still struggle to get OO to the levels of HO. But then they don’t really have to compete. Brand loyalty / collecting are a big part of Hornby.

To be honest I’ve had Electrotrens freight wagons long before Hornby took them over & the standards haven’t changed which says everything about how good HO models are from 25-30 years ago.

Catenary is a integral part of the set up & again its mystifying why Hornby won’t issue the Electrotren masts / wires in the UK range , same with the tramway masts.

I find myself back to the old ways of railway modelling from the 1980’s / 90’s of converting stuff & building the kits. The 3d print stuff from CMAC / Shapeways is getting better all the time. Buying new rtr is fast becoming a non starter as the models of what’s required are not being made. Ok Hornby might never make a new emu , but they could help the cause by being proactive by making spare parts such as motor bogies , bogie sideframes , chassis parts & pantographs more readily available & actually market the spares properly.

[Luciton St James]

@Rana Temporia

Leopald Hallings tram / LRT models in HO are superb & can get round far tighter curves than R1. They make models of the Blackpool Flexity2 , Stadler Croydon Tramlink & Manchester’s Metrolink M5000 vehicles.

Ive yet to see why Hornby could not go into partnership with Halling & get these models sold in the UK & kick start the great untapped rescource of modern image modelling. The LRT vehicles allow a whole new facet to be opened up , only needs Hornby to develop its recent acquisition of Oxford die cast ok to create a working car system & you have a complete new area of product line to develop / market.

OHLE isn’t the major problem , Electrotren make tramway masts & wires , let alone the standard Sommerfeldt / Viesmann systems. The trickiest bit is the track / double railed with concrete / paving slabs / pointwork.

[96RAF]

I have long since suggested there is a UK market for modern tram systems along with city track, points, etc and the associated urban roadside accessories and buildings. Many cities are running trams these days and very nice many of them are. Starter tram sets would be a viable alternative to the very tired 0-4-0 starter train sets, which have been flogged to death with a lick of different coloured paint / livery.