Dean Goods

[Big stephen]

A loco drive Dean Goods would be nice,as per the LMS 4F and 2P (which had the same chassis).

[Ozexpatriate]

Err, the Dean Goods is an 0-6-0, as is the LMS Class 4F.

The LMS Class 2P is a 4-4-0 which is hardly the same chassis.

The 2301 class and 4F class are similar with 62" and 63" driving wheels respectively, though I'm not sure about the wheelbase.

The 4F center wheels are noticably to the forward of the wheelbase center.

[Big stephen]

Ozexpatriate said:

Err, the Dean Goods is an 0-6-0, as is the LMS Class 4F.

The LMS Class 2P is a 4-4-0 which is hardly the same chassis.

The 2301 class and 4F class are similar with 62" and 63" driving wheels respectively,

though I'm not sure about the wheelbase. The 4F center wheels are noticably to the forward of the wheelbase center.

[Big stephen]

The Dean Goods,2P and 4F all had the same tender drive as they were from the same company (Airfix).Though the 2P came out in Mainline days.

[Ozexpatriate]

Big stephen said:

The Dean Goods,2P and 4F all had the same tender drive as they were from the same company (Airfix).Though the 2P came out in Mainline days.

The LMS 2P that was announced for 2011 will have a loco drive, not the

old tender drive.

I think that most people who would like to see a new version of the Dean Goods (and that includes me by the way) would prefer a loco drive over the old tender drive.

[The son of Triangman]

A model of The Great Bear would be nice.

[Big stephen]

the 2p used to to have tender drive,like the 4f and dean goods.the tender motor was the same.hornby are now bring the 2p and 4f out with new chassis,but not the dean goods.it would be nice 2 c the same wiv the dean goods

[Big stephen]

The Great Bear would be FANTASTIC as a model!!

[Ozexpatriate]

Great Bear is an interesting choice. It comes up here quite regularly on GWR wish lists despite only existing for a relatively short time, from 1908 (when it was built) to 1924 (when it was rebuilt as Castle No. 111 Viscount Churchill).

In

a broader scope it does not appear to be as popular. In the MREmag poll, Great Bear is the 25th most requested GWR locomotive with the same number of votes as the Buffalo class 0-6-0ST. In comparison, the 42xx 2-8-0T got 12 times as many votes!

It

is interesting yes, as the only GWR Pacific, but the poll results seem consistent with such a short-lived locomotive.

Attached is a sampling of the top 25 GWR locomotive preferences in the poll, identifying some of the other ideas mentioned in this

thread for comparison.

1. GWR 42xx 2-8-0T 74
2. GWR 72xx 2-8-2T 58
3. GWR 40xx 4-6-0 Star 50
6. GWR Steam Railmotor 32
10 GWR 29xx 4-6-0 Saint 24
17 GWR 25xx 0-6-0 Dean Goods 15
25 GWR "Great Bear" 6
26 GWR 0-6-0 Saddle Tank "Buffalo

Class" 6

[Postman Prat]

Hi Ozex

Interesting Poll results in that the top 2 were the only ones on the list to survive until the 'bitter end'. Might prove difficult with the overall wheelbase on the 72XX - no chance of running on 1st radius and I would have thought not a

lot of hope of good running on 2nd!! The Star, in 3rd place, wasn't too much of a surprise since it was a bit of a star(no pun intended)

You might not know that I'm not a GWR man but the item I would like to see would be the Railmotor. I went to Didcot

a few weeks ago, to see and photograph it, and, to be honest, I was entranced. Smells like a loco, sounds like a loco, where's the loco?

I don't hold out a lot of hope for 'Great Bear' How many people remember her in Castle form, never mind as a Pacific.

Mind you, that needn't count for much. Last year I was at Didcot and I overheard a couple of guys arguing quite heatedly about the shade of paint being right for the ROD on the Mogul!! For heavens sake, they were arguing about something that went back to 1920!!

However,

to topic - we'll get what we are given!!

Ozexpatriate said:

Great Bear is an interesting choice. It comes up here quite regularly on GWR wish lists despite only existing for a relatively short time, from 1908 (when it was built) to 1924 (when

it was rebuilt as Castle No. 111 Viscount Churchill).

In a broader scope it does not appear to be as popular. In the MREmag poll, Great Bear is the 25th most requested GWR locomotive with the same number of votes as the Buffalo class 0-6-0ST. In comparison,

the 42xx 2-8-0T got 12 times as many votes!

It is interesting yes, as the only GWR Pacific, but the poll results seem consistent with such a short-lived locomotive.

Attached is a sampling of the top 25 GWR locomotive preferences in the poll,

identifying some of the other ideas mentioned in this thread for comparison.

1. GWR 42xx 2-8-0T 74
2. GWR 72xx 2-8-2T 58
3. GWR 40xx 4-6-0 Star 50
6. GWR Steam Railmotor 32
10 GWR 29xx 4-6-0 Saint 24
17 GWR 25xx 0-6-0 Dean Goods 15
25

GWR "Great Bear" 6
26 GWR 0-6-0 Saddle Tank "Buffalo Class" 6

[Ozexpatriate]

Postman Prat said:

Hi Ozex

The Star, in 3rd place, wasn't too much of a surprise since it was a bit of a star.

You might not know that I'm not a GWR man but the item I would like to see would be the Railmotor. I went to Didcot

a few weeks ago, to see and photograph it, and, to be honest, I was entranced. Smells like a loco, sounds like a loco, where's the loco?

The Star and the Railmotor are highlighted in the abridged list because they are the nearest and dearest choices

to me, though gladly I'm not the only one.
- The Star is the only GWR 4-6-0 that has never been modelled RTR.
- The railmotor is quite a versatile model; it was equally at home on rural branchlines and suburban services (like Plymouth).

Pictures

I have seen of the railmotor at Didcot are lovely. (Of course in model form, I'd like to see chocolate and cream, but that lined crimson lake is quite beautiful.)

[Postman Prat]

Hi Ozex

The Railmotor is lovely - out of this world. I also prefer the colour to choc/cream although that, of course, is personal taste

Anyway, got to go - making tea - Piazza!!

Ozexpatriate said:

Postman Prat said:

Hi

Ozex

The Star, in 3rd place, wasn't too much of a surprise since it was a bit of a star.

You might not know that I'm not a GWR man but the item I would like to see would be the Railmotor. I went to Didcot a few weeks ago, to see and photograph

it, and, to be honest, I was entranced. Smells like a loco, sounds like a loco, where's the loco?
The Star and the Railmotor are highlighted in the abridged list because they are the nearest and dearest choices to me, though gladly I'm not the only one.


- The Star is the only GWR 4-6-0 that has never been modelled RTR.
- The railmotor is quite a versatile model; it was equally at home on rural branchlines and suburban services (like Plymouth).

Pictures I have seen of the railmotor at Didcot

are lovely. (Of course in model form, I'd like to see chocolate and cream, but that lined crimson lake is quite beautiful.)

[Ozexpatriate]

Postman Prat said:
Anyway, got to go - making tea - Piazza!!

Make sure you start at the corners now!

[Big stephen]

Models of Kestral and Lion (the prototype diesels)have been made whilst the prototypes where as short lived as The Great Bear.517 tanks where around for 80 years but i cant recall seeing them in these lists.

[Ozexpatriate]

Big stephen said:

Models of Kestral and Lion (the prototype diesels) have been made whilst the prototypes where as short lived as The Great Bear. 517 tanks where around for 80 years but i cant recall seeing them in these lists.

The

517 class is certainly there and checks in at number 21 for GWR locomotives in the 2011 MREmag 00 poll. Almost twice as many people would like to see a 517 as the Great Bear.

21 GWR 517 class 0-4-2T 11

The fact that the last 517 was withdrawn

in 1945 virtually eliminates it as a probable RTR model because it cannot 'legitimately' run in BR livery.

I don't believe that either Kestrel or Lion were manufactured by Hornby, but by someone who primarily does diesels (at least in 00). If Great

Bear still existed there would be a much better chance of seeing it in model form. Nothing against No. 111, if someone made it, I'd buy it, but given the choice, I'd much rather have a Star. There were lots of them operating all over the GWR for many years

and Lode Star is in the NRM.

[Big stephen]

It seems that all models have to be BR models now.No-wonder so many people I know have given up model railways.

[Ozexpatriate]

Big stephen said:

It seems that all models have to be BR models now.

This appears to be a pretty big deal to the manufacturers. The BR steam/diesel transition period is very popular with customers. I remain a GWR fan and enjoy

(and purchase) GWR models*.

The trend is illustrated by the fact that with the new Hornby Castle tooling, to date Hornby announced eight BR liveries and one GWR livery. Personally I find it disappointing. I did my part and bought a Tintagel Castle.

People say that pre-nationalisation doesn't sell like it used to. RTR models are a business and need to address the needs of the market.

* Except those with Collett roundels, particularly on the tender.

[Big stephen]

I bought a Tintagel Castle as well,but find model railways very boring now.I once had 5 freinds who modelled the GWR but,due to a dearth of good models,have all given up.

[LCDR]

Pre-Nationalisation and better still pre-Grouping models would be very nice, BUT to do them justice you need sufficient authentic rolling stock to hang behind them. For example (and an extreme case) a Dean Goods hauling a train of Mark 3 carriages
looks daft. A Dean Goods would require a GW Toad, and a dozen or so Welsh coal private owner open wagons.

As a general rule a pre-grouping passenger locomotive requires a couple of contemporary carriages, and a pre-grouping freight locomotive a brake
van, and open wagon and a van from the same railway, to look right.

Pre-grouping trains were shorter and therefore lend themselves better for model railways as they need less space.

The big drawback is that there were so many of them it is difficult
to choose which one is to be chosen. The big companies (Premier League) were London & North Western, Great Western, Midland, North Eastern, Great Northern and Great Central. The 'second division' included the Great Eastern, Lancashire & Yorkshire, Caledonian,
North British, and London & South Western. Then the rest, including London Brighton & South Coast, South Eastern & Chatham, London Tilbury & Southend, Hull & Barnsley, Midland & Great Northern, Furness, Great North of Scotland, Glasgow & South Western, North
Staffordshire, Cambrian, Midland & South Western, Somerset & Dorset, Metropolitan, Taff Vale, Rhymney, Barry, etc. etc.

Which one(s) should you choose!!

[jwd]

Big stephen said:

A loco drive Dean Goods would be nice,as per the LMS 4F and 2P (which had the same chassis).

Yep a Dean Goods gets my vote....

[Ozexpatriate]

LC&DR said:

Pre-Nationalisation and better still pre-Grouping models would be very nice, BUT to do them justice you need sufficient authentic rolling stock to hang behind them.

As a general rule a pre-grouping passenger locomotive

requires a couple of contemporary carriages, and a pre-grouping freight locomotive a brake
van, and open wagon and a van from the same railway, to look right.

Which one(s) should you choose!!

LC&DR,

I think the initial choice for

pre-grouping rolling stock is easy. Go with railways where pre-grouping locomotives are being offered. Hornby is currently (or has recently) offered locomotives in LSWR, LSCBR and S&DJR liveries.

My preference would be to see some clerestory stock in

S&DJR Prussian blue, and the very distinctive S&DJR brake vans. There are plenty of regional wagons made by local providers for the S&DJR.

[The son of Triangman]

Don't forget the MS&LR folks, the forerunner of the GCR. We have a Hornby GC coke wagon, now for a brake van and a loco to pull it!

I agree some more S&DJR rolling stock and coaching stock would be very nice.

[Postman Prat]

It is often overlooked that pre BR goods trains would include wagons/vans from different companies. That's not to say that the local company can be ignored, particularly the brake van would almost certainly belong to the local company.

For example

an LNER van would carry a load from York to Exeter, transshipment would not take place. When unloaded, the van would be used by the GW for a load somewhere else (not necessarily on the LNER) and so on and so forth. This was 'The Pool'. Brake vans and specialised

vehicles were not included in the pool. Keeping track of vehicles, in the pre-computer age, must have been a nightmare. Revenue, hire fees etc., were dealt with by the Railway Clearing House.

Just a few thoughts to point out that things are not necessarily

as bad as they appear (no, I'm not saying this point does not need looking at)

[Ozexpatriate]

Ozexpatriate said:
Hornby is currently (or has recently) offered locomotives in LSWR, LSCBR and S&DJR liveries.

Oops. Of course I meant LBSCR!

[81F]

A loco drive Dean Goods would be great - I'd want one!

On the subject of a 72XX, I cannot see why it could not negotiate the same curves as a 9F and after all they are only 42XX with trailing wheels