Elite update to firmware verion 1.42 using windows 10

[mark_reddish]

I have just tried to update my Elite from version 1.41 to 1.42 using Windows 10.  I followed all the instructions and when downloading the file it updates the process to full but I then have received a update fail message.  I disconnected everything and have switched the elite back on only to find out that all that happens is the green light is blinking but it does not display anything on the screen and nothing works.

Can anybody give me any help and advice as now I have a useless couple of hundred pounds controller.

 

Thanks

[Yelrow]

Mark, hi, welcome to the forum. You are not the first to experience this with windows 10, and no doubt somebody will be along to advise further , but if all else fails, Hornby can and will do it for you, usually, just for the cost of your postage to them. There are a lot of posts on the forum about this, so, worth a read. From my memory, it has been done, but not always on first attempt., and it is harder to do on windows 10, than on windows 7, but i dont  know why. So, your Elite, is not useless, just in temporary limbo.. john

[Chrissaf]

Unfortunately, you have bricked the controller by performing the upgrade using Windows 10, the same would probably have happened if you had tried using Windows 8x as well. These two Windows operating systems just do not seem to work with the Elite updater software to successfully complete the firmware update process. This issue is well documented on the forum. In hindsight, a search of the forum would have brought this issue to your attention before you attempted it. But I do acknowledge that Hornby SHOULD have included a note in the instructions to not try it with Win 8/10.

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However, all is not lost. It is recoverable, but you need access to preferably an old Windows XP PC, failing that Vista or Win 7. There is no guarantee though that Win 7 will fare any better, it doesn't always work for everyone. Maybe a friend or family member still has an old Windows XP or Vista PC tucked away somewhere.

.

You can buy refurbished XP laptops on the net for about £35

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I bricked my own Elite using Win 8.1. I borrowed a neighbours old obsolete Win XP desktop and the 1.42 firmware installed over the top of the bricked version at first attempt. Others here have recovered the Elite using Vista with reasonably consistent success and using Win 7 with some limited success. As I said before, Win 7 doesn't always seem to work. Some have also stated that they had to try the update several times using Win 7 in order for it to be successful. To the best of my knowledge, no one has reported success using Win 8x or 10.

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There is one indicator that is 100% consistent. If the upgrade progress bar moves slowly taking about a minute to reach 100%. Then the update will succeed. If the progress bar moves quickly across the screen, then it will report failure. This happens every time.

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Even with the bricked Elite, it is still important to follow TO THE LETTER, the instructions relating to the update sequence. Button pressing, waiting etc, All the process steps are important.

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If you just have not got any access whatsoever to an earlier Windows version, then you will have to send it back to Hornby to have the firmware updated. It is rumoured that they keep an XP machine in the workshop to ensure that they can easily recover bricked Elites, as XP never fails to work.

[96RAF]

I have had very limited success updating my Elite with Win 10 on a very low spec notebook (granddaughter's) that had Win 7 before the upgrade. It updated my Elite before and after the upgrade to Win 10 - In fact I was surprised the notebook even went to Win 10. A similar low spec tower PC (grandson's) running Win 8/8.1 wouldn't update the Elite before and didn't update the Elite after being upgraded to Win 10. My own PCs were Win7 - 8/8.1 - 10 and Win 8/8.1 - 10 and neither of those would update the Elite at any stage of their career.

 

I have flagged all this info back to Hornby CC and they said they are aware of the problem installing Elite updates using later spec PCs and they are investigating why this should happen and how to fix it.

 

Accordingly the problem seems to be that the installer does not allow enough time for the full update instructions to pass to the Elite. I think we can say this is confirmed by the rate at which the installer progress bar tracks across the screen. If it is quick (less than a couple of minutes) then it isn't going to work as the background processing obviously isn't happening. 

 

We have seen other occasions where the Elite can't seem to keep up with rapid data transfer such as when running programs in Railmaster e.g. skipping points changes or speed changes or even worse missing out stop commands resulting in chaos on track.

 

Knowing this doesn't help Mark in the short term, so his best bet is as advised by Chris, to find a friend with an XP or other elderly machine to reload the Elite, being aware that even then it sometimes takes more than one attempt; send it back to Hornby to have them do it; or wait for them to issue an update installer fix - but when this is likely to be I have no idea (next week or next month or if when?).

 

However sitting here with a beer thinking in technicolour about the data transfer rate mismatch - and I haven't tried this wild theory myself yet - but - and you have nothing to lose by trying this Mark, whilst waiting for Monday to come round so you can ring Hornby - go into device manager and change the baud rate for the port you are updating the Elite on, up from the default 9,600, to 19,200 or maybe even better to 115,200. No guarantees, but it just may help by forcing the Elite to work faster if you have a marginal spec PC. It would be interesting if it works.

 

Another blue sky thought is try pressing any button as you plug the power in except the ON/OFF button or the LOCO or STOP buttons as this method may boot up your dead Elite - again I haven't tried it from 'brick' status but it certainly works with a functioning Elite.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

 

As said before your Elite is perfectly capable of being restored to full working order by the simple expedient of reloading the firmware.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Really interesting stuff Rob.  It almost seems that most machines work unless they have ever had 8.x on them, what could be the cause of that?  And I think you are the first to report it successful with 10.

 

To add some of what I remember to the history, which is a little different to what you said Chris.  It has never been the case that any OS version has worked all the time.  Even back with XP, some machines simply wouldn't do it, although you never can completely discount people not following the instructions correctly even when they say they have.  Then, I don't think 7 was any worse in this regard than XP or Vista.  Hornby kept 2 (not 1) machines that they knew worked reliably back when they were doing 1.3/1.4/1.41 upgrades for quite a few people we were aware of from the forums.

 

Interesting if the updater has trouble at higher data transfer rates. Maybe it would be better to throttle ports to low rates rather than set them high to get it to work?  And maybe this area has been the problem all along, even with the XP machines that didn't work?  I've always suspected it to be drivers and their interaction with specific hardware, but maybe not.

[96RAF]

@fishy

 

this may / may not be the answer but...

 

the best (raf) analogy i can think of is a piston engined aircraft (elite) flying in formation with a jet (new spec pc).

 

to maintain position the elite needs to have the throttle (port speed/baud rate) wide open and the pc needs to have the airbrakes out (pauses in the installer code for the elite to catch up - if that is how it will be done).

 

i don't suppose we will ever really know how it was/if fixed, as all we will get is an installer with the next update that works, although it would be good if hcc included a read-me explaining things.

 

[mark_reddish]

I have had very limited success updating my Elite with Win 10 on a very low spec notebook (granddaughter's) that had Win 7 before the upgrade. It updated my Elite before and after the upgrade to Win 10 - In fact I was surprised the notebook even went to Win 10. A similar low spec tower PC (grandson's) running Win 8/8.1 wouldn't update the Elite before and didn't update the Elite after being upgraded to Win 10. My own PCs were Win7 - 8/8.1 - 10 and Win 8/8.1 - 10 and neither of those would update the Elite at any stage of their career.

 

I have flagged all this info back to Hornby CC and they said they are aware of the problem installing Elite updates using later spec PCs and they are investigating why this should happen and how to fix it.

 

Accordingly the problem seems to be that the installer does not allow enough time for the full update instructions to pass to the Elite. I think we can say this is confirmed by the rate at which the installer progress bar tracks across the screen. If it is quick (less than a couple of minutes) then it isn't going to work as the background processing obviously isn't happening. 

 

We have seen other occasions where the Elite can't seem to keep up with rapid data transfer such as when running programs in Railmaster e.g. skipping points changes or speed changes or even worse missing out stop commands resulting in chaos on track.

 

Knowing this doesn't help Mark in the short term, so his best bet is as advised by Chris, to find a friend with an XP or other elderly machine to reload the Elite, being aware that even then it sometimes takes more than one attempt; send it back to Hornby to have them do it; or wait for them to issue an update installer fix - but when this is likely to be I have no idea (next week or next month or if when?).

 

However sitting here with a beer thinking in technicolour about the data transfer rate mismatch - and I haven't tried this wild theory myself yet - but - and you have nothing to lose by trying this Mark, whilst waiting for Monday to come round so you can ring Hornby - go into device manager and change the baud rate for the port you are updating the Elite on, up from the default 9,600, to 19,200 or maybe even better to 115,200. No guarantees, but it just may help by forcing the Elite to work faster if you have a marginal spec PC. It would be interesting if it works.

 

Another blue sky thought is try pressing any button as you plug the power in except the ON/OFF button or the LOCO or STOP buttons as this method may boot up your dead Elite - again I haven't tried it from 'brick' status but it certainly works with a functioning Elite.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

 

As said before your Elite is perfectly capable of being restored to full working order by the simple expedient of reloading the firmware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul60]

   Windoze 10 ? Yikes ☹️

 

I think Windows 7 is garbage. I'd go back to XP if I could.

[Yelrow]

Paul, there is nothing to stop you. XP, full new programmes up for sale on ebay, complete with code. john. I agree with you about windows 10, but am very happy with windows 7. john

[Chrissaf]

Mark,

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Just a humble 'pointer in the right direction' suggestion as you are a newbie poster. The 'Blue Arrow Quote' button that is embedded in each individual posted reply. Is NOT a 'click this to reply' button. As you have found out it just duplicates the whole post in a yellow box.

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When you want to make a reply, just scroll down to the bottom of the page and write your reply in the great big empty reply text box and click the 'Green Reply' button.

[Paul60]

Paul, there is nothing to stop you. XP, full new programmes up for sale on ebay, complete with code. john. I agree with you about windows 10, but am very happy with windows 7. john

 

I would, but there is one important program I use that needs windows 7 (64bit).

 

So be-grudingly I have had to install Windows 7.

 

I have found a Windows 7 version of Outlook Express so at least my email looks familiar. 😀

 

 

[Yelrow]

Paul, i use AOL, for all my needs. Have done for 22 years. john

[Paul60]

Paul, i use AOL, for all my needs. Have done for 22 years. john

Hi John,

 

I have been using Outlook Express since XP first came out and Eudora before that. I'm a creature of habit too.

 

I have found each new version of Windows since XP has been a good step (or two) backwards.

[mark_reddish]

Thanks for everybodies feed back and help.  I have tried all of the kind replies and advice, yesterday I tried all of the tips for chamnging the baud rate, thanks RAF96 & Chrissaf (both up and down) but this again this did not work.  I sent an email to Hornby so it looks like waiting for a reply or calling them to see if they will update for me.

[96RAF]

@Mark

Email response hasn't been terribly prompt so a call would be better. The number at the bottom of screen is the same one for Mark Hodge the CC Mgr, whom you can ask for if you can't make satisfactory progress with the help desk responder.

[modelman]

I too have had the imfamous brick display just following the update procedures for my elite using windows 10. I've no way of getting out of it and have tried turning it on and off but no avail.

[Chrissaf]

Modelman,

This thread documents an alternative update methodology to the one documented by Hornby which has proven to unbrick an Elite. Note it is written for version 1.44 firmware downloadable from the Hornby site:

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/elite-bricked/?p=2/#post-264669

[96RAF]

For the records what is the batch date code engraved in the underside of the case...

e.g.

/media/tinymce_upload/8e8307c398b60badba293a7edcd50d26.jpg

Rob

 

[modelman]

Modelman,

This thread documents an alternative update methodology to the one documented by Hornby which has proven to unbrick an Elite. Note it is written for version 1.44 firmware downloadable from the Hornby site:

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/elite-bricked/?p=2/#post-264669

I have tried this just now and it's still not working for me. It's downloading and then coming saying update failed. Tried the second method but it just kept saying elite comm failed

[modelman]

Forget my reply. I just did it again and hallelula! It's working and back in business again! Thanks for the help there @Chrissaf! You've just saved me two to three hundred pounds on getting a new elite controller and my Christmas! 😆

[Chrissaf]

I didn't come up with method B. I just have a good memory for reading previous posted threads and remember seeing it. There is a big advantage to reading ALL posted threads on a regular basis, even if you do not contribute in them. Else these little gem threads pass you by unnoticed.

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Just glad you have got it working again.

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PS Could you answer Rob's question about the date code please. I suspect he is trying to ascertain if certain PCB revisions are failing more often than others.