Where have all the ships gone, Mr Airfix?

[RussellE]

Okay Mr Airfix what's going on?

You showed such promising signs by entering the 1/350 market with the Daring Class destroyers, Trafalgar class subs, and the lusty and the 1/700 Titanic.

But now it seems this has all gone out the window and there's nothing but a handful of ancient 1/600 kits and the sailing ship range.

Come on Mr Airfix, time to get back in the game and get those 1/350 kits back in the stores.

Sure keep the 1/600 stuff for the nostalgia, but give us the 1/350 range!

[the F-111C dude]

maby some people were turned off building them because of the detail. i also think it would be rather hard to mould /design them

[Captain Lockheed]

On the subject of the 1/600 ships, where have they all gone?

Only the Belfast remains in the Arfix store at the moment. As such I have found myself having to source kits from the odd shop that still has one in stock but mainly from online stores that have 'pre-owned' kits for sale.

Are we going to see the classic warhip resurrected or are they gone from Arifix range for good?

[William Morrison]

 You also mentioned that the sailing ship range is still in production but Airfix has not kept these ships in production for years.  Indeed, they might release one or two occasionally, but they are the same kits produced in the 1960s. There has been nothing new in Airfix's sailing ship range in almost 60 years!  This is a real shame since the company was very adept at manufacturing what many consider the finest plastic sailing ships made.

Airfix, we ship enthusiasts are screaming for more products!

[Jonathan Mock]

If the range of ships is smaller, or a range hasn't gone on to be developed further, I would imagine it's because there simply are not the sales there to support it, and not enough ship modellers buying the products. Kit ranges reflect what sells, and the absentees tend to be those that don't.

 

The market is so competitive these days, it makes little ecomomic sense for any kit company to keep producing things simply based on wishes - it's all down to sales. 

[William Morrison]

If the range of ships is smaller, or a range hasn't gone on to be developed further, I would imagine it's because there simply are not the sales there to support it, and not enough ship modellers buying the products. Kit ranges reflect what sells, and the absentees tend to be those that don't.

 

The market is so competitive these days, it makes little ecomomic sense for any kit company to keep producing things simply based on wishes - it's all down to sales. 

 

[Captain Lockheed]

Oh well Revell have plenty of ships on offer but I would prefer, out of loyalty, that Airix were in the same position.

[William Morrison]

 Jonathan,

I maintain that the manufacturers cannot expect to sell products if the don't offer new kits.  How many HMS Victories, Cutty Sarks, etc are we expected to purchase in order to show that they sell?  I already have almost every sailing ship that Airfix has manufactured; I don't need to keep buying them.  I need new products!

[RussellE]

maby some people were turned off building them because of the detail. i also think it would be rather hard to mould /design them

Indeed F111-C dude, ships are the most complex models to design/tool/and build, but people still do design/tool/buy and build them.

If the range of ships is smaller, or a range hasn't gone on to be developed further, I would imagine it's because there simply are not the sales there to support it, and not enough ship modellers buying the products. Kit ranges reflect what sells, and the absentees tend to be those that don't.

 

The market is so competitive these days, it makes little ecomomic sense for any kit company to keep producing things simply based on wishes - it's all down to sales. 

Jonathon Mock, I agree with William Morrison. We can't be expected to buy in volume kits that have been around for decades. Airfix made some promising progress entering the 1/350 market with 3 kits, but 2 of which are now missing from the range?

As an avid ship modeller, my scale of preference is 1/350, as are most other ship modellers these days-poll after poll proving this. There are huge gaps in the 1/350 market in terms of the RN, but I feel Airfix have missed a golden opportunity in this segment. The market has been crying out for years for a 1/350 Ark Royal (WW2) and now Merit have just released one. If sales are good (which they appear to be as almost everyone I know in the modelling community has one in the stash or on pre-order) you can bet Merit (or Trumpeter) will follow up with more.

Having said that, there's still plenty of "pie" to slice up in the 1/350 RN market: HMS Furious/Courageous/Glorious; all the escort carriers from WW2; pre-dreadnoughts and WWI grand fleet ships; all the light fleet carriers post WW2 including HMS Hermes of Falkands fame (and still extant in service as INS Viraat); Ark Royal IV/Implacable; Illustrious and Implacable classes from WW2; Type 42 Destroyers; Type 26 frigates; County class cruisers; Leander class cruisers... and the jewel in the crown, the Queen Elizabeth class carriers.

Now, I understand that Airfix's design department is infinitely small and to produce a ship model requires a huge amount of rescources, but there are ways around this: Release modern ships where CAD and drawings and extant examples exist; outsource the CAD work and so on (Dragon do this). Airfix have proven this can be done otherwise there would be no Illustrious/Daring/Trafalgar kits.

If Airfix don't enter this market segment, you can bet someone else will-and that's precisely the point I'm trying to make: if you don't have the product range, how can you achieve the sales? 😎

[William Morrison]

 Russell,

Although I live "across the pond", I agree entirely with you.  The Royal Navy is woefully under represented in 1/350 and in sailing ships.  You raise excellent points concerning the 20th century RN.  But, the same argument can be made about the 17th - early 19th century RN as well.  Afterall, the general performance of that service in the three Dutch Wars, the several wars against Spain and France, Anson's circumnavigation, et. al., enabled the British to establish the greatest empire ever known. The RN was almost solely responsible for defeating Napoleon and for preventing several serious invasion threats.  Yet, the only model kits we see are of the HMS Victory, and (rarely) Royal Sovereign, and Prince. Airfix also once produced a 1/600 scale HMS Shannon, but that was far too small of a model for satisfaction. It was also a very rare release.

I have said it elsewhere, but will say it again.  Imagine is you were an airplane modeler and the only kits available were a 1/72 Bf-109E, a 1/48 Supermarine Spitfire, and a 1/32 P-51 Mustang.  You will rapidly become bored, but you see no new releases and the manufacturers say that sales are down so no more airplane kits will be produced.  The, your excitement increases after one manufacturer advertises a completely new kit, then sinks when you discover that the new kit is a brand new 1/72 BF-109E!.  Such is the world of sailing ship modelers. 

Airfix has produced the best sailing ship kits in the market. Indeed, this is one type of model in which they excel.  The other manufacturers also make nice kits, but they cheated their customers by producing fantasy kits.  For example, Revell tried to use their kit of the HMAV Bounty as the basis for their kit of Darwin's HMS Beagle, although the two ships looked nothing alike. They did the same thing by using their excellent USS Kearsarge as the basis for their dubious CSS Alabama, and their outstanding Cutty Sark for their Thermopylae.  Heller perfected this kind of ruse.  The Zvesda Archeron speaks for itself.  Only Airfix has been thoroughly honest by releasing only true historic ships.  But, there have been no new kits for over 50 years.

In other words, Airfix once excelled at manufacturing sailing ship model kits. We need a larger range, each ship made to a common scale!

[Jonathan Mock]

 Jonathan,

I maintain that the manufacturers cannot expect to sell products if the don't offer new kits.  How many HMS Victories, Cutty Sarks, etc are we expected to purchase in order to show that they sell?  I already have almost every sailing ship that Airfix has manufactured; I don't need to keep buying them.  I need new products!

You've had new products - 1/350 HMS Illustrious, Type 45 destroyer, Trafalgar class sub... but only Lusty remains in the range, the others have been dropped, presumably because sales didn't justify their continued production.

 

 

For any kit company, the solution to product ranges who's sales drop off isn't to funnel more resrouces into more of the same in the hope that it will somehow conjure up more sales.

 

 

It's all down to sales, and if other subjects produce a better return, there's you answer.

[RussellE]

Therein lies the problem: if you don't make a serious effort to be "seen" as a contender in a particular market segment (in this specific case RN 1/350 warships), and if it looks like you're giving it up, then potential customers won't even bother to look into whether or not you can service their needs/wants and will automatically go elsewhere.

Airfix of the 60's and 70's was known for more than just planes-their 1/600 ship range was fairly popular.

Where tools for ships already exist, whether they be sailing, 1/600 or 1/350 it is not the huge outlay to mold more product that new tools cost. In fact, molding more product allows you to recoup more of the initial tooling cost by garnering sales.

Given financial circumstances at the moment, I can see why new tooling would be avoided, but why remove almost every vessel from the range shown on this website, even if currently unavailable? Surely the "pre-order" button on unavailable kits would serve to let the public know, Airfix are still serious about this market segment? If it can be done for other kits in the range that are currently out of stock, why not ships?

[William Morrison]

Russell,

I couldn't agree more!  Someone earlier mentioned "loyalty" to Airfix.  However, Airfix is not reciprocating that loyalty.  While other companies consistently take the risk by new releases (including Airfix when it comes to airplanes and tanks), Airfix has neglected our interests altogether.  New 1/350 20th century Royal Navy ships would be a terrific place to start. They could also retool their 1/600 range to bring those kits up to today's standards. And, they could reenergize their range of sailing ships.  We could wish for these happy outcomes, but I believe that Airfix will turn a deaf ear to our pleas.

[Jonathan Mock]

We could wish for these happy outcomes, but I believe that Airfix will turn a deaf ear to our pleas.

I'd say that the 1/350 ships could be seen as a direct result of "listening" to pleas - that's half the equation, the other is that it is then translated into sales.

 

Sales for all kit companies tend to be driven by orders - if the orders are not there, then that's your answer, pure and simple. You can't force a product onto retailers in the hope that a market will then appear.

 

All kit companies have finite budgets and resources. If a kit company isn't selling enough of someone's favourite subject, chances are there are not enough other people out there who share that same enthusiam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan Mock]

Airfix of the 60's and 70's was known for more than just planes-their 1/600 ship range was fairly popular.

The demographics, market and margins of the 60's and 70's is totally different to what it is now.

[DavidJC]

I don't want this to come across in the way it sounds, it is meant to be of debate, but I wonder if those who are pleading with Airrix, and so certain Airfix will be able to sell certain kits (they don't have to be ships of course but we are talking ships here) would be prepared to risk - plucking figures out of the air - £3,000 of their own money to help bring such kits to fruition?

 

Yes, there might be a profit at the end of it and you'd get £3,100 back, but are you so sure of that now?

 

Between you, crowd-fund a post 1960s Eagle! I might be a purchaser - until I see the selling price when I say 'wow I can't afford that' and look longingly as they gather dust on the shelves

[William Morrison]

Jonathan,

While I would like to see Airfix participate in the competition to manufacture 1/350 ships, I have been arguing and lobbying for more sailing ships.  You cannot claim recent releases in that genre.

[Botan]

All those new ships in 1/350 scale were a modern ones. I hope that Airfix will pick up something from WWII, at least small like some British submarine. However I think that in result of Hornby crisis they will put more efforts on the most profitable WWII planes.

[Jonathan Mock]

Jonathan,

While I would like to see Airfix participate in the competition to manufacture 1/350 ships, I have been arguing and lobbying for more sailing ships.  You cannot claim recent releases in that genre.

 

How large is the market for sailing ships compared to aircraft? What scale and retail price do you think new tool sailing ships should be? How many would you need to sell to cover the tooling costs?

 

Perhaps more pertinent,  how many kit companies have sailing ships in their range, how many do they currently have in their ranges and how many new-tool sailing ship kits have they produced in recent years?

[John Symmons]

Hi guys,

      Been following the lively debate on model ships. RussellE this question has been raised several times, and always seems to generate quite a spirited debate. Personally I’d love to see some new ships from Airfix even though my current interest lies in the 1/72 Axis WW 2 aircraft. I agree with all, or most of the comments mentioned above, especially the one by DavidC. ( Very neat idea.) Sort-of on that vein, if Airfix is a listed company how many of the guys hankering after new Airfix models have invested in Airfix shares? That would at least allow you to voice your opinions and question Airfix at their next share-holder meeting. ( Oh to be a fly on the wall.). Weren’t Airfix or should that be Hornby looking to raise some capital recently, there’s your chance to make a hobby company responsible to the hobbyists' it serves.

      In the very early years of Airfix they produced some quite interesting historic sailing ships in a very small scale, ( I believe the Santa Maria or Mayflower were actually in 1/350 scale. Looked for one when I was doing the Tamiya US Missouri for size comparison, but it was like hens teeth.) and certainly by today’s standards very crude but still cute. These little kits were ideal models for beginner’s and still are in that market segment, with maybe some small tweeking. Maybe the 600th range could benifit with some tweeking, replacement sprues etc, avoiding the complete re-tooling costs.

       The 600th scale range came into being in the late 50’s or early 60’s and again for their time were great kits and even now with the advent of photo etch still can be made into decent models; bit fiddley with the PE, and not suitable really for old-timers like me, with failing eye-sight. ( See my post on the Manxman & Cambletown. ). I still have a few 600th ships in my stash (3 in various stages of construction, whether I’ll actually finish them is doubtful.) and several 350th scale which I now prefer. These are all Trumpeter, except the Dragon Sharnhorst; which quite frankly scares the bee-gee-bers out of me. My point here is, there are quite a few companies continually producing 350 ( & 700th ) scale ships from the relatively inexpensive, simple ones from Hobby Boss to the expensive super kit models from Dragon, ( I believe there’s a rumour that the Sharnhorst is being re-released in an earlier fit.) and Academy and Trumpeter some here in the middle and all still releasing new models constantly adding to their range. Tamiya recently put out two new models of Japanese cruisers ( at typical Tamiya prices?) and have revamped the Missouri to a Gulf war fit. So there is a market out there for Airfix to tap into.

I can’t help feeling that the Belfast, Victory and Cutty Sark models still being available is that they’re good good sellers at the real ships exhibition places. ( Must be grateful for small mercies ). A local model shop has just received the re-issuing of both these Airfix Victory and Cutty Sark models, and I’m very tempted to try one, especial;y after reading the above comments. My point again is there is a market for model ships of all types and all scales and prices, ( Just look at the continual selling of Billing etc wooden ships kits and the various online ship modelling forums.) all it needs is the will to take the bull-by-the-horns and and Airfix could or should that be CAN have a world beating kit. Trumpeter did it with the HMS Hood that’s; with all it’s faults; still selling, (Can’t help feeling Airfix missed the boat [ pun intended ] on that one.) and have since released several WW2 RN ships to universal applause.

I see I've not mentioned the 1/72 scale launches Airfix made, these still stand up well by today's standards, and none have been done by other companies, so could be prime candidates for re-releasing.

So Airfix can revive their place in the model ship market, they have the kudos, they have the expertise, they have the experience, they have the loyalty, and there is a market. All they need is the WILL. Come on Airfix you CAN do it.

That’s my tuppence-worth. Remember we do this for fun John the Pom

[Jonathan Mock]

So Airfix can revive their place in the model ship market, they have the kudos, they have the expertise, they have the experience, they have the loyalty, and there is a market. 

Which begs the question why the Type 45 and Trafalgar sub aren't in the range? 

At the risk of overusing a phrase, it's not rocket science. And the reasons aren't that a lack of new product isn't motivating the market, because some of those old OH/OO vehicles have been plugging away year in year out despite some modellers wishing they'd be retired in favour of new tools, and yet the ships come and go.

[DavidJC]

So Airfix can revive their place in the model ship market, they have the kudos, they have the expertise, they have the experience, they have the loyalty, and there is a market. All they need is the WILL. Come on Airfix you CAN do it.

Really though? Experience, expertise? Consider my trials and tribulatons with the 1/48 Meteor Airfix nosecone, such a basic error that should never have happened. Based on that, would I shell out my a shed load more of my hard-earned money if I thought I was going to have to spend days correcting a fit that should never have been wrong in the first place? That's the pity - I have had seeds of doubt put into my mind due to one silly error (although I am looking forward to the 1/48 Stuka that is due this year). Loyalty - well that will only last so far.

 

I don't know how much the new Trumpeter Hood cost to develop and get to the shops but I bet it wasn't cheap if the selling cost is getting on for £300. They'll have done their homework predicting sales and will doubtless end up making a profit in some years though. I don't know the kit but I expect it will fit well even if there are some inaccuracies. And that these days is the important thing: fit is as important as accuracy. Bit of filler here and there, perhaps a bit of shaving, but broadly speaking it should fit together with ease and precision with no wild mismatches. At those prices we'd expect nothing less.

 

Do Airfix have the time and the capital to be investing in such a kit, even if not as big or as complex? Airfix are reinventing themselves which is taking some doing; they are still trying to shake off the days of the 1970s of simple, inaccurate and often poor-fitting kits - and good on them. They are making some headway but it's going to take some time. Once they have modeller's confidence again, and are making healthier profits, then perhaps they can consider broadening their lines - but not until then.

 

Then there's the final cost. We might all want a Hood or post-60s Eagle or whatever, and we can all say 'yeahhhhhhhh I'd buy one' but when it comes to going into the shop and seeing the product priced on the shelf, I bet a massive proportion would back away saying 'well, I would buttttt...'

 

I'm in no way knocking your arguments John the Pom but they are very, very real considerations that have to be made and I fully understand Airfix's stance as we see it. Once consumer confidence is back and they're producing kits that someone of my level can build without having to spend unnecessary hours (or giving up as I did and chucking it out) over it, with a bit of capital behind it can start to produce more off-beat subjects, and that includes a new range of ships.

 

[John Symmons]

Hi DavidC

I,m really sorry about your Meteor problems, I know how it feels as I've done the same with some Revell kits, So awfull that they were not even worth starting and went straight in the bin, but that won't stop me buying other models from the same manufacture.

As for the Trumpeter HMS Hood I see they're now issuing a 200 th scale version at about the $300 mark the 350 scale one is going for $100 or less. Yes I know thar's still expensive, but believe me you get a LOT of kit even in the 350 version. I dread to think what the 200 scale ones like. Last time I looked at Trumpeter they'd just released to Missouri in 200th scale and now I see there's four or five new ones in that scale, not sure about the 350 or 700 series but my point here is that there is a market. And yes I still do believe that Airfix have the kudos, expertise, experiance, etc. to make wonderful models just look at their new Tiffy and other recent now toolings. It's a pity that the Meteor had that problem hopefully Airfix can fix it for future releases.

I recently finished some old 1970's kits ie Fw 189 & Ju 52 and I was pleasently surprised at the general fit especially the Fw 189, also building the Hs 123 & 129. the Hs 123 almost clicks together while the 129 has some real problems but I'm trying my best to sort-of fix them. ( Posts later).

I just hope Airfix personal reads these discusions and takes note, but I'm going to continue living in my fool paradise and hope we get some new nautical surprise.

Remember we do this for fun.    John the Pom.

[Ratch]

 Large scale ships are fine, but how many do individuals buy (let alone build)? I've built the 1/350 Lusty (for Airfix) and have the Daring in my stash. I've built almost all of the 1/600 WW2 warships and have many still in my stash - I like to build one full hull and one waterlined, and I have conversion plans for others. I can't see folks buying multiple kits of the same subject in 350th (for display space only).

 I don't understand why Airfix would abandon 600 scale. The longevity of Bismarck, Belfast and Ark Royal in the range illustrates that these do sell - maybe not in 1/72 aircraft quantities - but at a steadier rate. If Airfix wanted to revitalise Bismarck sales they might think about re-issuing Tirpitz (not issued since 1983). A new Dreadnought in 600 would be a superb tester!

[RussellE]

Having read through the ensuing comments, I think I need to clarify my original question: Airfix have many ships in their tool bank, but why are only a few available? If they want to be seen as a kit maker that offers ships shouldn't they offer them available as pre-order even if they are not currently available? This applies especially to the newer 1/350 scale kits as this is the preferred scale of most ship modellers nowadays and should be the scale of choice for any new ship toolings by Airfix!