Where have all the ships gone, Mr Airfix?

[Jonathan Mock]

Jonathon I re-itterate my posting earlier on in this discussion about the market for model ships. Th model ships website and forum is very lively and has new products the whole time, there IS a market for model ships Airfix just has to have the will. Personally I would never build a moden submarine to my mind if you've seen one you've seen them all; boring.

Airfix are famous for starting the plastic modelling industry in a big way and their main claim to fame was their aircraft, and especially the Spitfire and it's nice to see them continuing with that tradition. Lots of other manufactures have made the Spitfire especially in the early days like Frog, Matchbox and Revell and I've made several but hey just weren't Airfix. Having said that I hope Airfix continue to make aircraft ( and hopefully some German airfield support vehicles like the Kettengrad, VW jeeps and other support vehicles, like they’ve already done with the RAF and US bomber sets just please in 1/72 scale... 

I still think that Airfix could still have a market share in the ships, so hopefully we'llbe rewarded with a suprize, like the new releases recently announced.

Remember we do this for fun      John the Pom

 

As I said in a previous post, it's not a one-size-fits-all market. Some companies have better traction with some subjects because of their retail reach or markets. Aoshima was mentioned - they clearly have more luck with ships than aircraft. Tamiya do ships, but they don't small small-scale armour like Dragon, Trumpeter and Revell. The list goes on, you will always find model companies that have areas and markets where sales and brand identity are strong for some subject matter but not others.

 

I think they proved the "will" with the 1/350 new tool kits - the fact that they've mostly now disappeared from the range and have not been followed up with more of the same probably tells its own story. I don't think it's a case they didn't try hard enough, they clearly did, but if you've dipped your toe into a market and it's not bouyant enough to float, where is the business sense in investing more of the same. And, alas, model kit companies down the ages have been burned by modellers talking up subjects as being the sure-fire kit that everyone wants, only for it not to pan out that way. I'd suggest googling 'Fine Scale Modeler poll' and the stories behind the /148 Catalina, Ju 52, Vigilante and 1/72 Stratocruiser.

 

Me personally? I'd love to see the 1/600 range expanded because Airfix have provenence in this scale, but you know people will then say that it should have been 1/700 or 1/350. Somewhere down the line there will always be the "ah but, it would have sold if only...".

 

Hate to say it, but the aircraft modellers are most probably more consistent in their purchases, and 1/72 and 1/48 are easier scales to cater for. And when it comes to business decisions, this whole Field of Dreams thing about "make them, and they will come" doesn't really make good business sense when you've already done that and they didn't come.

 

Plus, long story short, the trade know what sells better than any anecdotal conjecture on any modelling forum. If the trade are saying "those ships of yours didn't shift, can we have more aircraft?" the response isn't "no, you'll get more ships until the market appears", because no sane retailer is going to take on more stock they had trouble shifting in the first instance.

 

If the ships have gone but the aircraft dominate, it's because the aircraft modellers and market is more easier cater for, more relaible and - more crucially - more profitable.

And ultimately, it's a business, not a service.

John points out that the manufacturers have the appropriate research on which to base its decisions.  Yet, I can recall never having seen a survey from Airfix about ship choices, let alone sailing ships.  Indeed, I have seen many surveys about desired ship models, none of which asked about sailing ships.  I sincerely doubt that there is real research that pertains with this topic.  There is ample evidence that wood sailing ship kits sell regularly for over $1,000.  For example, the Amati HMS Vanguard has been selling at around $1,350.00 for almost ten years.  The Caldercraft "Nelson's Navy" kits continue to sell for that kind of price as well.  I'm sure that many would like to have the opportunity to purchase these ships in plastic for around $50.00, but no manufacturer has asked us.

 

Well to to be fair, Airfix do run a suggestions list each year at Scale Model World, and there is a wishlist section on these forums, so there's clearly some avenue of feedback, maybe you've missed that. And kit companies do a lot of market research into new products across broad range of factors - just because they haven't consulted you or anyone you know personally, doesn't mean they don't do thorough market research.But, as I said earlier, kit companies are usually guided mostly by the trade, by sales because that's the sharp end, that's where opinion has to give way to fact, i.e. the numbers being sold and the profits therein. And if the trade don't reorder items because they are slow to move off of shelves, that's usually the precursor to them being dropped from a kit range.

 

John, you accuse me of making assumptions; I accuse you of the same.  You assume that I am among only a few who want such ships. You assume that there are few who share my interests, and you belittle many people that I have cited in my small circle as being irrelevant.  All I am recommending is that Airfix ask us about that which we would like to see.  I want them to conduct thorough research among people who share these interests.  You seem to want to deny us even that.

 

I didn't accuse or bellitle anyone and I'm far from denying any "thorough research", but we who are the "we" and "us" to be consulted? You see the context there is that far from any "small circle" being irrelevent, every small circle is relevent and it's as relevent as the next small circle - but there's a lot of small circles all competing for attention, all demanding that kit companies listen/consult them because their particular interests or scales are where the investment should be poured into. 

I've worked in the industry now for nearly thirty years, my "assumptions" are based on first hand experience. There is a simple formula in all this - sales equals more of the same, lack of sales means less of the same. That's it. And that's all dependent on individual kit companies budgets, economies of scale and how *their* markets work for *them*.

 

 

I go back to my original point and that is that the lack of ships most probably reflects a lack of interest from the trade because of a lack of sales. That's it. I'd personally love to see more 1/600 stuff to flesh out the range, but if you're looking at R&D budgets, weighing up how many bankable sellers you'd have to bounce in order to risk some more ships, whilst looking at the sales from the last attempt to stimulate a market, and the trade aren't asking for more ship kits anyway...

 

 

 

[Jonathan Mock]

I don't believe anybody is being belittled here, what some of us are suggesting is that manufacturing companies are sales driven and what doesn't sell doesn't get made. Here's a breakdown of one trader's sales at Scale Model World this year:

All Aircraft 42%, Civil Vehicles 25%, Military Vehicles 11%, Ships 10%, Figures 9% (of which military 7%), Space & Sci-fi 2%, Misc 1%.

If Airfix have become aircraft-centric whilst armour and ships get short shrift, the above may hold a clue.

Those numbers tell me that the aircraft market is easier to cater for and the sales are more reliable. If that's where the money is, then you follow the money.

[William Morrison]

Jonathon I re-itterate my posting earlier on in this discussion about the market for model ships. Th model ships website and forum is very lively and has new products the whole time, there IS a market for model ships Airfix just has to have the will. Personally I would never build a moden submarine to my mind if you've seen one you've seen them all; boring.

Airfix are famous for starting the plastic modelling industry in a big way and their main claim to fame was their aircraft, and especially the Spitfire and it's nice to see them continuing with that tradition. Lots of other manufactures have made the Spitfire especially in the early days like Frog, Matchbox and Revell and I've made several but hey just weren't Airfix. Having said that I hope Airfix continue to make aircraft ( and hopefully some German airfield support vehicles like the Kettengrad, VW jeeps and other support vehicles, like they’ve already done with the RAF and US bomber sets just please in 1/72 scale... 

I still think that Airfix could still have a market share in the ships, so hopefully we'llbe rewarded with a suprize, like the new releases recently announced.

Remember we do this for fun      John the Pom

 

As I said in a previous post, it's not a one-size-fits-all market. Some companies have better traction with some subjects because of their retail reach or markets. Aoshima was mentioned - they clearly have more luck with ships than aircraft. Tamiya do ships, but they don't small small-scale armour like Dragon, Trumpeter and Revell. The list goes on, you will always find model companies that have areas and markets where sales and brand identity are strong for some subject matter but not others.

 

I think they proved the "will" with the 1/350 new tool kits - the fact that they've mostly now disappeared from the range and have not been followed up with more of the same probably tells its own story. I don't think it's a case they didn't try hard enough, they clearly did, but if you've dipped your toe into a market and it's not bouyant enough to float, where is the business sense in investing more of the same. And, alas, model kit companies down the ages have been burned by modellers talking up subjects as being the sure-fire kit that everyone wants, only for it not to pan out that way. I'd suggest googling 'Fine Scale Modeler poll' and the stories behind the /148 Catalina, Ju 52, Vigilante and 1/72 Stratocruiser.

 

Me personally? I'd love to see the 1/600 range expanded because Airfix have provenence in this scale, but you know people will then say that it should have been 1/700 or 1/350. Somewhere down the line there will always be the "ah but, it would have sold if only...".

 

Hate to say it, but the aircraft modellers are most probably more consistent in their purchases, and 1/72 and 1/48 are easier scales to cater for. And when it comes to business decisions, this whole Field of Dreams thing about "make them, and they will come" doesn't really make good business sense when you've already done that and they didn't come.

 

Plus, long story short, the trade know what sells better than any anecdotal conjecture on any modelling forum. If the trade are saying "those ships of yours didn't shift, can we have more aircraft?" the response isn't "no, you'll get more ships until the market appears", because no sane retailer is going to take on more stock they had trouble shifting in the first instance.

 

If the ships have gone but the aircraft dominate, it's because the aircraft modellers and market is more easier cater for, more relaible and - more crucially - more profitable.

And ultimately, it's a business, not a service.

John points out that the manufacturers have the appropriate research on which to base its decisions.  Yet, I can recall never having seen a survey from Airfix about ship choices, let alone sailing ships.  Indeed, I have seen many surveys about desired ship models, none of which asked about sailing ships.  I sincerely doubt that there is real research that pertains with this topic.  There is ample evidence that wood sailing ship kits sell regularly for over $1,000.  For example, the Amati HMS Vanguard has been selling at around $1,350.00 for almost ten years.  The Caldercraft "Nelson's Navy" kits continue to sell for that kind of price as well.  I'm sure that many would like to have the opportunity to purchase these ships in plastic for around $50.00, but no manufacturer has asked us.

 

Well to to be fair, Airfix do run a suggestions list each year at Scale Model World, and there is a wishlist section on these forums, so there's clearly some avenue of feedback, maybe you've missed that. And kit companies do a lot of market research into new products across broad range of factors - just because they haven't consulted you or anyone you know personally, doesn't mean they don't do thorough market research.But, as I said earlier, kit companies are usually guided mostly by the trade, by sales because that's the sharp end, that's where opinion has to give way to fact, i.e. the numbers being sold and the profits therein. And if the trade don't reorder items because they are slow to move off of shelves, that's usually the precursor to them being dropped from a kit range.

 

John, you accuse me of making assumptions; I accuse you of the same.  You assume that I am among only a few who want such ships. You assume that there are few who share my interests, and you belittle many people that I have cited in my small circle as being irrelevant.  All I am recommending is that Airfix ask us about that which we would like to see.  I want them to conduct thorough research among people who share these interests.  You seem to want to deny us even that.

 

I didn't accuse or bellitle anyone and I'm far from denying any "thorough research", but we who are the "we" and "us" to be consulted? You see the context there is that far from any "small circle" being irrelevent, every small circle is relevent and it's as relevent as the next small circle - but there's a lot of small circles all competing for attention, all demanding that kit companies listen/consult them because their particular interests or scales are where the investment should be poured into. 

I've worked in the industry now for nearly thirty years, my "assumptions" are based on first hand experience. There is a simple formula in all this - sales equals more of the same, lack of sales means less of the same. That's it. And that's all dependent on individual kit companies budgets, economies of scale and how *their* markets work for *them*.

 

 

I go back to my original point and that is that the lack of ships most probably reflects a lack of interest from the trade because of a lack of sales. That's it. I'd personally love to see more 1/600 stuff to flesh out the range, but if you're looking at R&D budgets, weighing up how many bankable sellers you'd have to bounce in order to risk some more ships, whilst looking at the sales from the last attempt to stimulate a market, and the trade aren't asking for more ship kits anyway...

 

 

 

John,

I sincerely apologise if I seem thin-skinned.  But, I belong to an organization of over 25,500 ship modelers of all genres (wood, paper, plastic, resin, etc.)  This is the Nautical Research Guild that has its own associated website called Model Ship World in which ship models the world over post their models.  The section for plastic model ships is quite extensive, and it includes sailing ships.  I sincerely believe that if Airfix were to survey these members, they would have a sufficiently large sample size from which to interpret data in order to make policy decisions.  I have never seen Airfix do so, but their sailing ships are widely regarded among the best.  In other words, there is extensive, global interest in new kits, including sailing ships.  Airfix needs to ask.  25,500 ship modelers belonging to one organization focusing only on ships of all types indicates a large potential market.

Bill

[Jonathan Mock]

But seemingly not a large enough potential market to keep the relatively new 1:350 Trafalgar Class sub, HMS Daring and the standard (non-gift) HMS Illustruous releases in production.

 

 

And that's the bottom line, it's all well to speak of potential markets but the arbitor of that  market is whether something remains in production. If it doesn't...

 

 

Theres your answer.

 

[DavidJC]

'But, I belong to an organization of over 25,500 ship modelers of all genres (wood, paper, plastic, resin, etc.)  This is the Nautical Research Guild...

 

...I sincerely believe that if Airfix were to survey these members, they would have a sufficiently large sample size from which to interpret data in order to make policy decisions'

I understand that, but if you went to any like-minded society they'd all say the same about their own sphere! I don't even know if there is, but let's assume there's a Short Seamew society: if you polled their membership they'd all say they'd like to see one kitted.

 

Of course that's an extreme example and there's no real comparison to the whole of the nautical modelling society out there against a short-lived obscure Fleet Air Arm aeroplane, although I do think it doesn't wholly rob me of my point. In any event I'd like to bet the nautical society you speak of would all return a hundred different 'wants'!

 

In any event there still needs to be that capital behind it and - once again - perhaps Airfix can't justify that expenditure just now. Again though to not appear isolationist, I am surprised (yet delighted) they have chosen to kit a 1/48 Walrus; something that I personally didn't ever expect to see. Yet one could take that forward as an argument: if they felt a Walrus a good gamble, then they've done market research, and if they've chosen to kit a Walrus on that basis, what does that say about their confidence in ships?

 

 

All that said, perhaps year down the line when they have their reputation back, when they're somewhat more profitable due to strong aircraft sales then, perhaps, they can start looking at other lines such as ships and cars.

 

As a personal aside, I would love to see RO5 Eagle kitted in its final commission guise, but I doubt very much if that will ever happen; although I suppose they could kit it as RO5 Eagle and put in alternatives for RO9 Ark Royal. I have to be realistic though: first, it's not likely to happen and second, the final price might be too much for my pocket. Where would all my pleas be then?

[John Symmons]

Hello William.

Sorry if I ruffle some feathers, but actually I made none of the assumptions you accuse me of. All I said was personally I would not build a modern submarine as in my mind I find them kind of boring. I have built some subs in the past the Revell Nautilus and the USNS Andrew Jackson I believe, anyway it was the one with the removable hull side to expose the interior, and I enjoyed building both of them. I have also built some sailing ships in the past, but was scared for life trying to build the Revell 1/96th scale Thermopylea; but have recently been eying a few sailing ships, as I do think they always make up as superb display models.

Whoa! I’m really sorry and I do apologise if I seem to be belittling any one or saying anyone is irrelevant, I am one of the ones who share your interest in ships. What I actually did say was that ship modelling is alive and well, and that if Airfix had the will the market is there. After all didn’t Airfix actually start the plastic modelling with ships and vintage cars and the aircraft seemed to come as an after-thought with those decidedly odd Spitfire and Messerschmitt..

Recently my local model shop has got in stock the Airfix Cutty Sark and HMS Victory and I've been sorely tempted, especially after reading what many have said about them on this forum, But; as I've said elsewhere I have to draw the line somewhere or I'd be drowning in unmade kits, my stash is already far too big. But if Airfix could do some RN WW 2 ships I would be more than sorely tempted; just please include some PE railings.

One of the new 350 scale models I brought, was the HMS Hood and then sent off for the WEM added parts and PE, I always thought it was a pity it had to be done by the Chinese, and often wondered why Airfix; to me the obvious choice of manufacture; didn't do it. A missed opportunity.

I hope you accept my apology, I really did try to write the post as a personal op pinion.

Remember we do this for fun John the Pom.

P.S. Whoops. It seems I'm to late as I missed your post above. Anyway a good discusion is good for the soul, and sometimes a little heat is needed. Apology accepted and thanks.  JtP

[William Morrison]

Hello William.

Sorry if I ruffle some feathers, but actually I made none of the assumptions you accuse me of. All I said was personally I would not build a modern submarine as in my mind I find them kind of boring. I have built some subs in the past the Revell Nautilus and the USNS Andrew Jackson I believe, anyway it was the one with the removable hull side to expose the interior, and I enjoyed building both of them. I have also built some sailing ships in the past, but was scared for life trying to build the Revell 1/96th scale Thermopylea; but have recently been eying a few sailing ships, as I do think they always make up as superb display models.

Whoa! I’m really sorry and I do apologise if I seem to be belittling any one or saying anyone is irrelevant, I am one of the ones who share your interest in ships. What I actually did say was that ship modelling is alive and well, and that if Airfix had the will the market is there. After all didn’t Airfix actually start the plastic modelling with ships and vintage cars and the aircraft seemed to come as an after-thought with those decidedly odd Spitfire and Messerschmitt..

Recently my local model shop has got in stock the Airfix Cutty Sark and HMS Victory and I've been sorely tempted, especially after reading what many have said about them on this forum, But; as I've said elsewhere I have to draw the line somewhere or I'd be drowning in unmade kits, my stash is already far too big. But if Airfix could do some RN WW 2 ships I would be more than sorely tempted; just please include some PE railings.

One of the new 350 scale models I brought, was the HMS Hood and then sent off for the WEM added parts and PE, I always thought it was a pity it had to be done by the Chinese, and often wondered why Airfix; to me the obvious choice of manufacture; didn't do it. A missed opportunity.

I hope you accept my apology, I really did try to write the post as a personal op pinion.

Remember we do this for fun John the Pom.

P.S. Whoops. It seems I'm to late as I missed your post above. Anyway a good discusion is good for the soul, and sometimes a little heat is needed. Apology accepted and thanks.  JtP

John,

Well said!  Anyway, I agree with your points, especially the comment about Airfix marketing the Walrus.  I never understood Airfix's decision to go after the 1/350 ship modeling crowd by modeling modern RN ships.  I bought them, but they are sitting on my shelf awaiting the time when I can spark an interest in them.  Given that Airfix has always been the representative British model manufacturer, and that their primary (albeit limited) focus has been on British ships, it does seem a shame that they allowed the Chinese to take the lead in manufacturing British warships.  Trumpeter went after Hood, Repulse, two versions of Dreadnought, Ark Royal, Huron, Manchester, and Belfast in 1/350; Two versions of Hood, Renown, Repulse, Queen Elizabeth (two versions), Warspite (two versions), Barham, Valiant, Malaya, and two versions of Dreadnought in 1/700.  The Japanese company Tamiya has the KGV and PoW in 1/350, and 1/700 versions of those two ships as well as Nelson, Rodney, Hood, and Repulse in 1/700.   Zvesda from Russia has released a version of Dreadnought in 1/350.  It really seems as if Airfix has dropped the ball and has missed the widespread interest in WW1/WWII  RN warships.

Back to market research . . . while it's certainly true that we all have many interests in the realm of ship modeling, it would be a terrific idea for the manufacturers to survey the membership of the different ship modeling sites.  While there will probably be some overlap of members being in different clubs or sites, ignoring the over 25,500 strong membership of sites like Model Ship World seems shortsighted to me.  New products resulting from surveying these groups could result in huge profits!

Bill

[Jonathan Mock]

I understand that, but if you went to any like-minded society they'd all say the same about their own sphere! I don't even know if there is, but let's assume there's a Short Seamew society: if you polled their membership they'd all say they'd like to see one kitted.

Indeed, one could take Fanderson for example, who's membership would no doubt like to see some new kits from Captain Scarlet or UFO. Then there's MAFVA, who's membership would probably support the idea of more small scale armour. Then there's the RPSB, who would possibily welcome some additions to the 1:1 bird range. The Britism Medical Council could possibility weight in with the need for more anatomical models given their uses in medicinal teaching and training. 

 

As David says, ask any interest group what they want and - surprise! - they want their interests respresented. But they don't have to sell them, the trade does. 

 

 

I'd also love an RO5 Eagle as dad served on her. 

[William Morrison]

I understand that, but if you went to any like-minded society they'd all say the same about their own sphere! I don't even know if there is, but let's assume there's a Short Seamew society: if you polled their membership they'd all say they'd like to see one kitted.

Indeed, one could take Fanderson for example, who's membership would no doubt like to see some new kits from Captain Scarlet or UFO. Then there's MAFVA, who's membership would probably support the idea of more small scale armour. Then there's the RPSB, who would possibily welcome some additions to the 1:1 bird range. The Britism Medical Council could possibility weight in with the need for more anatomical models given their uses in medicinal teaching and training. 

 

As David says, ask any interest group what they want and - surprise! - they want their interests respresented. But they don't have to sell them, the trade does. 

 

 

I'd also love an RO5 Eagle as dad served on her. 

With respect, a special interest group numbering over 25,500 members represents a very sizable interest group of prospective customers.  Survey them for their desires, narrow the list of recommended kits and resurvey, and produce a new product based on solid research. 

[peebeep]

But would 25,500 members buy if Airfix said they would release kits that they request? I'll remain sceptical. Even aircraft subjects can go down like a lead balloon and the Nimrod debacle is a stand out in this respect. Everybody said sure I'll buy one, but when push came to shove they didn't. I know one fairly well known trader who still spits feathers at the merest mention of Nimrod, he couldn't even give them away. Airfix need a huge incentive to tool up new ship kits and I don't see it happening in the near future. You'd be better off lobbying the manufacturers that are actually active within the genre and have enough clout to take some risks for the stuff you want.

[DavidJC]

I'd also love an RO5 Eagle as dad served on her. 

Mine too; I don't know how many times but certainly on its last few years c1969 to the end in 1972. He's always said it was the best and happiest carrier he'd sailed in.

[DavidJC]

But would 25,500 members buy if Airfix said they would release kits that they request? I'll remain sceptical. 

Something I've touched on earlier. Would in the final reckoning would people see the product on the shelf, suck teeth and say 'I woulllllld, buuut'? I can't speak for anyone of course, but it doesn't take much for a kit to be released for the modelling world to say 'that's expensive'.

 

Of course ship modellers, as aicraft modellers, might pay almost any price for their prized kit, but again, it's selling them in sufficient numbers to make a profit or even merely recoup costs? Which leads us back to the start  😆

 

As an aside, something occurred to me. Aircraft modellers might well buy two or even more of the same aircraft, maybe to make different marked versions - whatever, really (though personally, although I have in the past, I don't generally make two of the same plane). Would ship modellers make two or three of the same ship, or would you just buy the one kit? Because that might well be another consideration. Once you've bought the ship, is anyone likely to buy a second or even third in the same way an aicraft modeller might with planes?

 

I will say again; I hope that ship and vehicle modellers will be catered for, but I honestly think that these things also have to be approached realistically.

 

[Ratch]

 

 

As an aside, something occurred to me. Aircraft modellers might well buy two or even more of the same aircraft, maybe to make different marked versions - whatever, really (though personally, although I have in the past, I don't generally make two of the same plane). Would ship modellers make two or three of the same ship, or would you just buy the one kit? Because that might well be another consideration. Once you've bought the ship, is anyone likely to buy a second or even third in the same way an aicraft modeller might with planes?

 

I will say again; I hope that ship and vehicle modellers will be catered for, but I honestly think that these things also have to be approached realistically.

 

I have at least two of each 1/600 WW2 ship. One for full hull and one to waterline, I have 4 HMS Suffolks to convert to other County Class Cruisers, so yes, some of us do buy and build multiples.

[Nick Moore1707819886]

 I have bought multiple kits of the same ship so as to model sister ships or one ship throughout various stages of its service career. A good example is the KGV class battleships, which underwent numerous changes of equipment through their careers. HMS Belfast is another one which springs to mind; the Belfast which went to Korea was radically different to the one which went to war in 1939.

Also, it seems to me that model manufacturers stick to the same few ships each time. What about the numerous smaller ships which do the actual grunt work of any navy - the frigates, destroyers, minesweepers, MTBs etc. I would love to see more of these being kitted, particularly the Royal Navy ships from WW2.

One last thought for a particularly underkitted period - what about the pre-Dreadnoughts? I have read a lot of naval history, particularly on the RN from around the start of the engine driven era up to the reforms of Jackie Fisher and his driving force behind the Dreadnought ships. I personally think that a lot of these ships looked fantastic and they were, for their time, revolutionary. They were tremendously important to the power of the Royal Navy at the time and I think that kits of these tremendously influential ships would be sellers.

[DavidJC]

Cheers guys. Never having been a ship modeller (aside from an abortive attempt on HMS Victorious in 1979) I didn't know if more than kit of the same ship would be bought.

[nmcabecadas]

I had a few "Narvik" class destroyers, all representing different ships, and remember people with several 1/1200 models, most likely to use them in wargames.

[William Morrison]

Cheers guys. Never having been a ship modeller (aside from an abortive attempt on HMS Victorious in 1979) I didn't know if more than kit of the same ship would be bought.

But they are!  Trumpeter offers two versions of the USS San Francisco, both of which have become standards on various websites.  In the old days, Revell packaged the four ships of the Iowa class by using the same molds, as well as the Midway class carriers, the Forrestal class carriers (with very minor changes), and the carriers of the Essex class.  Aurora did the same.  I do not believe that Airfix ever did so, but that was the standard until the customer base became more sophisticated and discriminating.

[Nick Moore1707819886]

 The same mouldings could be used by Airfix to some degree in at least one of their ship kits - HMS Illustrious. I worked with this ship on and off for her entire career and there weren't many changes to her but there were enough to justify the issue of an update. The main changes were to aerials and the fotting of Phalanx guns in place of Seadart missiles. This would require a modification of the fwd weapon bay by the  ski  ramp and a couple of additional sponsons aft but the rest of the current moulding could pretty much be used as is. Same would hold true for Invincible and Ark Royal.

I mentioned  Belfast before. Her changes were mainly aerials and upper deck weaponry ss well so an update to her could use most of the current moulding as well. However, using Belfast as a starting point for other Town class cruisers would require major changes to pretty much everything above 1 deck, although I think the hulls, screws etc would be usable.

[Nick Moore1707819886]

 Sorry, my last I did of course mean removing a couple of sponsons and the Goalkeeper (not Phalanx!), remodelling the bow by the ski ramp and then mounting Sea Dart. Upper deck aerials, Sea Dart tracker etc would then have to be checked to see what would have to be added or removed to model the ship at the chosen period.

[Paul Astle]

 

 

As an aside, something occurred to me. Aircraft modellers might well buy two or even more of the same aircraft, maybe to make different marked versions - whatever, really (though personally, although I have in the past, I don't generally make two of the same plane). Would ship modellers make two or three of the same ship, or would you just buy the one kit? Because that might well be another consideration. Once you've bought the ship, is anyone likely to buy a second or even third in the same way an aicraft modeller might with planes?

 

I will say again; I hope that ship and vehicle modellers will be catered for, but I honestly think that these things also have to be approached realistically.

 

I have at least two of each 1/600 WW2 ship. One for full hull and one to waterline, I have 4 HMS Suffolks to convert to other County Class Cruisers, so yes, some of us do buy and build multiples.

I've bought several of the same model to make the class- 5 Queen elizabeth class super dreadnaughts (HMS Warspite.) 5 KGV class and so on.

[RussellE]

Well, looking at this year's catalogue, it's clear that they've ALL but (3) gone!

I am sad to see the recent 1/350 offerings not listed at all. I just hope that when circumstances allow, Airfix can return to this segment, re-releasing the Type 45 along with some new 1/350 kits, for example the upcoming Type 26/31 frigates and the new QE class carriers.

[Nick Moore1707819886]

 I'd like to see Airfix coming out with more in the 1/350 range as well.  A QE carrier would be fantastic - I have been past Rosyth a few times and have seen Queen Elizabeth there and she's one good looking ship (as well as being freaking enourmous!) - and it would go great with the 45s and the 23s produced by other companies. However, what I'd really like to see are, primarily, pre-Dreadnought British ships. I'd also like more First World War British ships - I'd love a 1/350 HMS Iron Duke as she was as Jutland - along with the smaller ships, torpedo boats, torpedo boat destroyers etc. While I'm blue skying I would also love to see WW2 British destroyers and also some Royal Fleet Auxiliaries.

[RussellE]

 I'd like to see Airfix coming out with more in the 1/350 range as well.  A QE carrier would be fantastic - I have been past Rosyth a few times and have seen Queen Elizabeth there and she's one good looking ship (as well as being freaking enourmous!) - and it would go great with the 45s and the 23s produced by other companies. However, what I'd really like to see are, primarily, pre-Dreadnought British ships. I'd also like more First World War British ships - I'd love a 1/350 HMS Iron Duke as she was as Jutland - along with the smaller ships, torpedo boats, torpedo boat destroyers etc. While I'm blue skying I would also love to see WW2 British destroyers and also some Royal Fleet Auxiliaries.

Hi Nick. Airfix have a Type 45 already in their range, https://www.scalemates.com/kits/142704-airfix-a12203-type-45-destroyer so why would we go somewhere else to get one? I have one in my stash, lined up to be built this year and the LHS has one on the shelf that I'm also considering buying.

I'm aware there is a type 45 available from another "brass instrument" player, but having seen the reviews, personally I prefer Airfix's offering. Just hope Airfix bring the 45 back at some point in the near future. 😉

[Nick Moore1707819886]

 Hi Russel.

Yeah, got a 45 in the stash myself, just waiting to see what I want to do with it. I'm really keen on the HMS Dragon delivery paint job, but am also drawn to doing an operational one rigged for at sea replenishment. I work in the RFA and work with them quite often, so next time I am going to take my camera up with me and get some phots. Don't know when that'll be, though, unfortunately. The 45 will pair nicely with the Illustrious eventually, as well as a 23 when I get around to buying one!

[William Morrison]

Well, Revell recently released a new sailing ship model . . . yet another HMS Victory in the odd scale of 1/450.  That makes a grand total of nine different kits of that ship.  Who needs it?  As an avid sailing ship modeler, I will not purchase that kit.  Had they produced a larger kit of a different sailing warship, one not previously manufactured by any company, I would have been first in line to make that purchase.

I reiterate; no company can sell that which they fail to produce.

Bill