Peter Ruifrok Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I have a small layout (about 2 m wide and 0.5 m deep) which runs a 14 minutes program in which upto 6 locs are used. I use Railmaster in conjunction with eLink (1 Amp). Obviously not all locs run at the same time, but sometimes max 4 at the same moment. The layout is only back and forward thus there are quite a lot instructions involved to set also all points (8 in total) and signals (equally 8) correctly. Until yesterday this program worked perfectly for many weeks. However when I came to start the program this morning, about halfway, after some 7 minutes, it started to miss "stop" instructions and everything became a mess. In the end the loc would stop (after several stop instructions had been sent to it I presume) but then it would be too late, and the loc would have driven too far. I am saying "the loc" since it would not always be the same loc that would be the first to miss the stop instruction. "Too far" is not a bit too far, but really several seconds. Points and signals appear to be handled okay. "Start" (or rather forward and reverse) is more difficult to judge, but seems also okay. Now, the track is perfectly clean, and all locs work perfectly fine when a program is not being used but normal instructions via the screen. Thus, I am ruling out any issues with the locs or signal pick-up from the track. Commands can be close (sometimes 0.05 sec apart) but this has never been an issue before. I rebooted my PC (Windows 10), restarted Railmaster and eLink after about a 30 minutes wait, but the problem was still there. I gave up, closed eLink and Railmaster, went away and tried again after 3.5 hours. Everything works smoothly.......now my question (and apologies for the long story, but I wanted to be clear): did anyone experience anything similar. Is this an eLink hardware fault (as I expect)? What is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hello Peter,While the program was running did you attempt to access any other objects (locos, points, signals etc) on the main screen? I have had quite a few incidents like this recently. It is usually when I try to adjust the finishing point of a train which has stopped short of or overshot a station platform. I don't think RM likes to handle a running program and "manual" commands at the same time.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 No, I didn't. The railmaster guide does mention on page 142 "In rare cases you will need to switch off your PC, unplug the mains cable,remove the battery (if a laptop) then press the power button to dischargeall internal capacitors. You should leave the PC for a further five minutesthen power up again." But it doesn't say anything regarding the cause of such situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Something else: is there a maximum to the number of instructions in a program? I couldn't find any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Could it be that PC resources were being hogged in the background running those pesky MS "we know best" routines. Disk defragmentation and the like. It seems supiscious that after a gap of 3.5 hours it all returned to normal i.e MS routines now completed, and full control handed back to the user..Windows 10 does seem to take a lot of control over these things away from the user and don't advertise that they are running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 ... is there a maximum to the number of instructions in a program ... I am not aware of a maximum number of instructions but if there is, I am sure it will be a lot and more than most people would ever use. If your Program has worked perfectly previously and is doing again now, that cannot be the problem anyway. Incidentally, your 'problem' description is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Have a look in your log file. A program execution looks something like this:- 01/02/17 15:50:34 00:00 Executing: Move plan [1.5,2]01/02/17 15:50:44 00 in:10 Executing: Switch right for: Controller: A Port: 005101/02/17 15:50:45 00:11 Executing: Switch right for: Controller: A Port: 001101/02/17 15:50:46 00:12 Executing: Switch right for: Controller: A Port: 0016 The hh:mm:ss time is the time on the computer clock as each instruction is obeyed. That is followed by mm:ss the time assigned to each instruction in the program. In the example above, the first instruction was executed at 15:50:34. Thereafter, the expected execution time of each instruction should be that start time + the assigned execution time of each instruction. If there is any variance in this, then that is when you get the symptoms you describe. As Chris says, this could be because something else running in the background, is hogging the CPU and delaying RM from executing program instructions. As well as parts of Winows, it could also be things like AV software or backup software etc.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Thank you gentlemen, I will have a look at the log file whenever this happens again. The other question regarding the possible max number of instructions in a program was unrelated. I do realise that this has nothing to do with the erratic program running. I should have asked that question in a separate item. But I am still interested in an answer. It is a long program that I am running and instructions beyond 15 minutes or so are "not seen". There is a clear cut off moment and it lies just above these 900 seconds. I haven't counted the number of instructions yet. Could somebody move this to a new item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Peter has since found that the maximum number of program steps is 500. See the thread linked below.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/max-number-of-instructions-in-a-rm-program/?p=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 The erratic program functioning must be related to my PC, not in particular to RM. During the night from any thursday to any friday I get all my updates AND McAfee does a scan. I interrupted the scan by re-booting my PC in friday morning and I suspect that some hidden program after the re-boot was using the system without me noticing it. The lesson learned is that I will a) take a log whenever it happens again and b) then will try to speed up getting control again by closing down the PC, taking the battery out (and disconnecting from mains), push the on/off button (to empty any capacitor), wait for 5 minutes, and only then will re-start the PC..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I paid some more attention to the moments at which a RM program would function erratically (it did happen again) and I have the strong impression that it can happen (it not always will) whenever a Windows 10 update is being downloaded or when McAfee is performing a scan. Not necessarily a planned scan, but also shortly after a running scan has been interrupted and/or when it is doing a real time scan (McAfee will scan any incoming file that theoretically could contain a virus). Apparently these programs have priority over everything else. I do understand why, but it does throw a spanner in the wheel when running RM. Is there a way by which these priorities can be set without endangering the functioning of my PC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Peter,That's exactly the conclusion I came to a few weeks ago. I had had Norton 360 installed on my RM pc, and this is probably worse than McAfee in its background use of the CPU and HD drive. With the help of AC's website instructions, I replaced Norton 360 with MalwareBytes and SpyBot, and I also tweaked one or two Windows settings. At each pc startup, I always go into settings / update to check whether there are any Windows updates ready to download, and if there are, I get these out of the way before I start up RM.Since then my programs have behaved much more consistently.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 There is much to say in favour of a dedicated (old) PC running say Windows XP, only once connected to the internet (to activate RM) and without anti-virus software. Any RM updates (apart from when RM was activated) could be downloaded on an USB stick on your regular PC and then moved to the dedicated PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi Peter,You would need internet access if you wanted to report a problem through the RM program, otherwise, as you say, do without it.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would suggest the only thing to say in favour of XP (and Vista) over later versions is that the earlier ones are simpler to set up in the first place, not that they run RM any better. There is a lot to be said about aggressive AV software not getting along with RM, even with exceptions set, and the definitive authority on this is the coverage on AC's excellent separate site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I too have some erratic programming issues - mainly with a) the RM clock stopping (and subsequently missing several commands) or points either firing late or (more common) not firing at all.The program currently being worked with is only 60 lines and 220 seconds and (following instructions) there's at least 2 seconds between and two ponts firing. It cann work just fine one time, run it again 5 minutes later at maybe point 6 won't fire and then point 12 will fire or late. Next time it runs it could be fine or it could be another point (or points) that miss.Granted it's an old machine (still reliably and uninfectedly running XP!), but it's sole purpose is to run RM.Has anybody else had an issue like this? Codger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Are you certain your PC is not doing something else? No connection to the internet? No hidden AV activities in the background? Are you certain that your XP is not infected? AV programs only protect your files, not the OS. And you are just running the program? Nothing manually at the same time? These are the reasons as far as I know that could cause erratic program functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNAP Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I run 2 programs back to back, which is about 900 lines and lasts about 90 mins and I cannot recollect RM missing an instruction. If a command is missed it is usually due to the power to track or loco.I would chech task maanager to see if any other programs are running at that time, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I too have some erratic programming issues - mainly with a) the RM clock stopping (and subsequently missing several commands) or points either firing late or (more common) not firing at all.The program currently being worked with is only 60 lines and 220 seconds and (following instructions) there's at least 2 seconds between and two ponts firing. It cann work just fine one time, run it again 5 minutes later at maybe point 6 won't fire and then point 12 will fire or late. Next time it runs it could be fine or it could be another point (or points) that miss.Granted it's an old machine (still reliably and uninfectedly running XP!), but it's sole purpose is to run RM.Has anybody else had an issue like this? CodgerHi Codger,Do you have Double pulse=1 in your Railmaster.ini file? If not, try this setting to see if it makes any difference.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hi all, I responded but somehow the response needs to be edited for profanity. Although I am not aware of any..... 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Basically my response and questions were as follows:@KNAP: I assume that your two programs each have less than 500 lines? And the task manager will not always show all activities.@All: I had the same issue this afternoon again after a Windows 10 update last night. This update came without a re-boot. I closed down my PC, took the mains out, and the battery, pushed the on/off button (to empty any capacitors), put the battery back in, re-connected the mains and started my PC. I waited until all start-up activities were gone (from the light indicating hard disk activities) and started RM. Everything fine 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hi All,Thanks for the suggestions. I have checked Task Manager and there is nothing else running. In msconfig Startup only the bare minimum of services required to operate the PC is running and the manual running og malwarebytes and AVScan I do find nothing.I'm doing some additional tests by unchecking all program steps EXCEPT all point switching instructions. There are 14 of them. So far I've run the program twice like this and on both occasions it's missed at least one point firing - the first was point 7 right at 151 secs (36 seconds after the previous instruction at 115 secs was executed). On the second try, point 7 left at 169 seconds was missed and also point 9 left at 204 seconds. In looking at the log file, there's something not quite right with the layout - the log says it can't find the Green Button for 5 of the 22 points. I can fire them all satisfactorily from the layout plan and also from layout desgn, so I'll check with RM what that issue is before I pursue and further problems with running the program.Ray - thanks for the ini setting tip - I'll check.Cheers,Codger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNAP Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 It was 1 program but I had to split into 2 to keep under 500 lines. Took me ages to work out the program needed splitiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Ruifrok Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 I can imagine, took me a while as well before I understood. Are you using the scheduling function to recombine the two programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNAP Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I run them now as self contained programs, so I have an out program, then the 2nd program resets all points and the return program can run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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