Virgin HST

[colin142]

Iv'e set up my Virgin EC R3390TTS set with two DCC ID's (12 and 13,I haven't set up a consist). What is the best way to set them up in RM, is the description in the setup used for both Drive and dummy cars?

[Chrissaf]

Normally, when using two decoders split between a motor and dummy motor car. You give the two decoders the SAME address. For example in your case 13. Thus, they both react to the same DCC commands sent from the controller. The most common reason for this, is so that directional lighting will work correctly. Even though there is no motor physically in the dummy motor car, the decoder in it receives the motor drive forward DCC command (at the same time as the actual motor car decoder) and knows to switch the rear lights 'ON' in the dummy car. Similarly, if another decoder function is being used to switch on interior coach lighting, then one single controller function command can switch on the interior lights in both motor and dummy cars together.

.

There is no technical issue having two decoders with the SAME address. Neither decoder is aware of the others existence. Similarly, unless Railcom is being used, there is no 'two way' DCC communication between the decoders and the controller, thus the controller is also unaware that there are two decoders with the same address. Of course, this is not something you would normally do with two completely individual locos for obvious reasons, but is perfectly valid for a motor car / dummy car train configuration to share the same address.

.

Of course, you may have a perfectly valid reason for giving the dummy motor car a different DCC address, but so far you haven't mentioned what it might be. If you do for some inexplicable reason want to have two different DCC addresses, then you can't associate the second address with the SAME loco in RailMaster. You would have to create TWO locos in RM. One for the motor car (13) and one for the dummy car (14). This would be very messy to operate and manage and would use up TWO RailMaster on screen throttles.

[colin142]

Thank you for the reply. The instructions that came with the set recommended two ID's one for each, I thought it was a bit odd but it did say that it real life that some of the sounds would not be used from both cars at the same time if that makes sense.

[Chrissaf]

I think those instructions probably relate to and are fine if you are using a physical knobs and buttons controller. In that scenario you would just have to remember to call up the dummy car address for sound functions specific to the dummy car. But, the concept used in the instructions does not ideally fit in with the way RM operates i.e two locos and two throttles required as described in my previous reply.

.

A consist might work. But you would still need to have two locos configured in RailMaster i.e. loco 13 & loco 14. I say might work, not will work. The issue I see is that in a 'consist' both decoders would react to the same 'Function' commands. Thus the ability to make sounds operate in the dummy car independently of the motor car will most likely be compromised.

.

I take it then, that your Virgin TTS has a TTS decoder in both cars. I don't have any TTS locos or HST's to relate actual experience too. To my mind, it does seem rather a wasteful cost to put a more expensive TTS decoder in the dummy car when a basic four function one would be enough to control lights. But hey ho !!

.

It will need to be your decision with regard to how you want to operate the sound features as to whether you adopt the instructions as written or not.

.

Personally, I would forego the potential prototypical sound operation in favour of the convenience of only having one single loco & throttle in RailMaster to contend with.

[walkingthedog]

The dummy car needs sound as an HST has two power cars. I suppose having a TTS decoder and speaker in the dummy is easier than running a speaker cable from the front to the back. 

[Chrissaf]

That makes sense, if you have a relatively long train with a number of coaches in between.

[colin142]

I don't think I would use the sound in the dummy car as I wouldn't operate the train is reverse except maybe to shunt into a siding. I can turn the lights on using the Elite then control the drive car with RM.

The Virgin set was on sale in Hattons at a very good price, but Hornby have now cancelled production or the coaches to match, so I have had to use Virgin West Coast coaches for the time being.

 

[walkingthedog]

An HST uses both power cars when moving, not just the one that is in the front, one pulling the other pushing, so you need sound in both cars all the time. 

[colin142]

 

Thank you, you're right. I count turn the engine sound on in the rear car with the Elite and then control the train with RM. If that setup does not work correctly, I may reprogram the dummy car with the drive car ID.

[96RAF]

You have got it right using two IDs as this allows you to control the sounds at each end individually, even if lashed as a consist in RM for running convenience.

 

To set them up as a running pair in RM just call up both IDs into a consist as if they were individual locos, which is exactly what they are. You can them motor them as one but control sounds at each end (you can do this with any sound equipped consist).

 

As for individual setup just list each one in RM as the same R number and accept the function listing but give each its own address as per your original statement.

 

Rob

[Fishmanoz]

Interesting Rob, first time I have come across this. I was with Chris previously on the instructions being in error.  Obviously you have to not only work the functions separately but also drive the dummy car in reverse as necessary to work the directional lights correctly?

[Chrissaf]

It does still mean having to use up two screen throttles if you want individual sound control. I still think it is a messy solution. I would have thought that there would be only a limited number of sounds that would need separate play. For example I would have thought engine start up and basic engine sounds would be common to both, as well as horns etc. Not seeing what the sound play options are, it is hard to appreciate what sounds actually need individual control to be prototypical. But then I am not a fan of HSTs.

.

With regard to the rear lights. I would have thought that as it is made as a two decoder loco, the reverse operation of the lights would have been configured at the factory.

[walkingthedog]

When the driver revs the front engine the rear does the same. I doubt he has seperate throttles although I'm not absolutely sure. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Colin142 is correct regarding the instructions, I contacted HRMS about this just after the loco was launched, they suggested that both ends are best set to the same address, (which is contrary to the instructions)

 

It seemed to me that it depends what we what from our scale models, subject also to our hearing levels and the size of the room/layout. If we have a large layout, with a large rake of carriages, in a large room/area, independent sounds control is possibly worth considering, (show size layout maybe) I then asked myself, if the rake is smaller would I really hear the difference bearing in mind it is a HST, and also I have other sound locos running at the same time.

 

After careful considering, for my layout, I decided to programmed both ends to the same address.

[96RAF]

Interesting Rob, first time I have come across this. I was with Chris previously on the instructions being in error.  Obviously you have to not only work the functions separately but also drive the dummy car in reverse as necessary to work the directional lights correctly?

You will need pro pack to be able to set the 'ends' in opposite logic within a consist.