Elite questions

[frazzle]

Hi

I have a Select and am 99% sure that i cannot program the locos top speed. Ive downloaded and read the Elite manual, but no-where does it say that this has the ability to program the top speed either? But i know it can be done with some other

controllers (different brands). Anyone know if it can be done with the Elite?

Also, Am i able to connect the Elite to my Select so that i have direct control over 3 locos at once?

Thanks

Paul

[rigrun]

I can answer your first question.
Up to 8 ‘Select Walkabout’ units can be connected to the ‘Select’ for individual control of 9 locomotives.
You can also use the Elite in the same way, but you only power the main controller from the power supply,

and the others receive their power from the master controller

[rigrun]

Sorry that should have read I can answer your last question

[poliss]

Yes, the Elite can program the CVs for top speed. That would be CV5.
The standard Horby decoder does not support CV5 unfortunately.

[ernie03]

Hi Poliss

I am waiting for my Elite, but, in preparation, I have read through the manual. I have read on page 35 of the d/l manual, that one can choose which CV address you wish to alter. I have taken that to mean that I can choose any CV to alter,

provided that the decoder supports that function and will allow it to be set. Have I read too much into that section? To me, this is one major reason to get an Elite?

From my limited undrstanding, no real experience yet, I am beginning to believe that

not all CV addresses have been standardised across decoders. I would expect any decoder comes with a spec sheet of which CV addresses it allows you to alter. If it does not, the manufacturer must be able to provide the details.

Here is a sample of a

decoder CV spec file I have come across, with quite a range of programming ability (I think I have removed all manufacturers details)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39792454/Decoder_Spec_Page2.doc
Hope I am breaking no rules by posting a link

Thanks

[poliss]

You'll find a description of the most commonly used CVs on the Loy's Toys website.
http://www.loystoys.com/info/configuration-variables.html

[crg]

Hi - on a slightly different tack I have now installed and programmed four R8247 decoders on my layout which is connected to an Elite controller. But, I can only bring up decoders (confusingly referred to as Controllers on the Elite screen) 1 and 2 on

the Elite. How can I bring decoders 3 and 4 please? Many thanks.

[wiggy25]

@Frazzle

You can only be in control of two locos at once, as you will only be able to control one loco at a time through the Elite, OK yes just by switching from one control knob to the other means you can quickly switch between different locos

each assigned to a control knob.

The Select once connected and addressed(you need to give the Select an address this is all shown in the Instructions, I've also done a video in my link below)
http://youtu.be/8BpxhZ5muSo
Will allow you to be able

to control two locos independantly, one loco from the Elite on control knob 1 and one on the Select, to quickly switch to another loco you can turn control knob 2 on the Elite.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't turn control knob 1 and operate

one loco while turning control knob 2 and controlling a second loco at the same time.

@Ernie03
You are correct, if the decoder supports that CV to be changed, then you will be able to reprogram it!
You just need to remember that a lot of the cheap

decoders DON'T support all CV's, if you download the two instruction sheets for both of the Hornby decoders you will see the Sapphire has lots of CV's that can be adjusted, where as the basic decoder only has a few.

@CRQ
I don't actually understand

what you mean?
The R8247 is an accessory decoder to control points, in which case if you have 4 R8247's as an example you could address them as follows, remember that each accessory decoder has 4 ports or outputs this is just showing each port addressed

as 1 through to 16:-
Accessory decoder R8247 number 1 ports 1-4.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 2 ports 5-8.
Accessory Decoder R8247 number 3 ports 9-12.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 3 ports 13-16.

It explains how to program them in the

leaflet that comes with them and in the Elite manual.

You would need to discconect each accessory decoder after programming, so connect the first one up to the program track output and follow the instructions to address the 4 ports(outputs) as 1-4.
Disconnect

this accessory decoder then connect the second one and address these 4 ports(outputs) as 5-8 and so on until they are all programmed.

Each of these decoders can then be connected to the main track, to operate them you just press the ACC button followed

by the address of the output you wish to change, pressing control knob 1 will operate that output address in one direction, pressing control knob 2 will operate the same output address in the other direction.

Cheers

Ian

[wiggy25]

@ Frazzle

In the video it shows a Select connected to another Selct but it's the same as connecting the Select to an Elite.

You just need to remember that the Elite has the two wires going to the track and the power supply is ONLY connected

to the Elite.
The Select is connected to the Elite ONLY by the Xpressnet lead, no other connections need to be made at the back of Select.
In the video it does show me pressing the stop button which flashes HC (handcontroller) then AD.
This is to

assign an address to the Select, I used number 2 in that example.

Cheers

Ian

[frazzle]

Ian

"What I'm trying to say is that you can't turn control knob 1 and operate one loco while turning control knob 2 and controlling a second loco at the same time."

Now im confused? I thought one of the main points of the Elite was that you

could use both rotary switches at the same time thereby controlling 2 trains at once?
I 'thought' that the marketing blurb on the box even said that?

Sooooo why does it have 2 rotary knobs if you cant use them at the same time?

Paul

[poliss]

Of course you can control 2 locomotives at the same time with the Elite. See the Hornby videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWX2NOSUQOQ

[wiggy25]

It's a bit confusing isn't it.

I think the two control knobs are just for quick access to a loco, or as with the V1.3 firmware you could have one loco assigned to one control knob and a different loco assigned to the other control knob.

So

yes you are controlling two locos one on each control knob...although NOT at the same time.
To be honest though would you actually be watching two locos and speeding/slowing them at exactly the same time?

I can understand if you had one person on

each control knob though, may be in another firmware update it may be possible to implement this, I don't know.

Cheers

Ian

frazzle said:

Ian

"What I'm trying to say is that you can't turn control knob 1 and operate

one loco while turning control knob 2 and controlling a second loco at the same time."

Now im confused? I thought one of the main points of the Elite was that you could use both rotary switches at the same time thereby controlling 2 trains at once?
I

'thought' that the marketing blurb on the box even said that?

Sooooo why does it have 2 rotary knobs if you cant use them at the same time?

Paul

[poliss]

See the video wiggy? Two locos, one on each control knob, independantly at the same time.
If you add more Select's as walkabouts you can control 10 locomotives at the same time, provided you have enough power available and very, very fast reactions.

[wiggy25]

Yes I see the video but thats not what is being asked.
You CAN'T control a locomotive on Control knob 1 and someone else control a locomotive on control knob 2 at exactly the same time.
The Elite display and operation will switch between control

1 and control 2.

I have tried this on my Elite so I know it can't be done.
The new V1.4 also requires the control knob to be pressed first to make it active, so you can't press both control knobs to make both active at exactly the same time.

Now

adding Selects as Walkabouts is different because then yes, you can have one person controlling loco say number 10 on the Walkabout and someone else controlling loco 5 on the Elite, what you couldn't do is then have another person controlling loco 30 on a

different control knob on the Elite.

I have the Elite connected to my layout with two Selects connected as Walkabout units for two children to be able to operate two different locos at the same time.

Cheers

Ian

poliss

said:

See the video wiggy? Two locos, one on each control knob, independantly at the same time.
If you add more Select's as walkabouts you can control 10 locomotives at the same time, provided you have enough power available and very, very fast reactions.

[frazzle]

poliss said:

See the video wiggy? Two locos, one on each control knob, independantly at the same time.
If you add more Select's as walkabouts you can control 10 locomotives at the same time, provided you have enough power available and

very, very fast reactions.

Poliss

Having just watched the video, the guy doesnt actually control both trains at the same time. He uses one knob for 1 train, then selected the next train by code, then uses the 2nd knob to run the 2nd train.
This

i assume is what wiggy was describing. Once dialed in though, could you accelerate/decelerate both trains at the same time?

[wiggy25]

What the video is NOT showing is somone operating (as in speeing up slowing down) loco address 3 on control knob 1 while someone else is actually operating (again as in speeding up /slowing down) loco address number 8 on control knob 2.

Thats because

it can't be done, as the Elite needs to switch as seen in the display between control knob 1 then control knob 2.

Would it be possible to split the screen and have two fully independant controls I don't know.

Cheers

Ian

[ernie03]

Well, sticking my neck out again, I would look at the signalling on the track to undertsand what is happening. All the tracks are connected electrically and all signals therefore run their way around to all decoder chips on all locos. All but 1 decoder

ignores them and those locos continue doing what they were doing before this commend reached them. But, 1 decoder responds to the commend as it has its address in the control signal. So, irrespective of twiggling the 2 rotary controls on the elite and other

rotary controls on any connected selects, the elite can only shove 1 control sequence on the track at a time.

So, how long does a control sequence take. Not getting too detailed, NMRA spec 9.2 shows that each command packet comprises 4 sections (loosely

bytes) with a single bit between them. Spec 9.1 says that '1' bit has nominal duration of 116 micro seconds and a '0' bit has nominal duration duration of 200 micro seconds. A command sequence comprises a preamble of 12 '1' bits, then an address byte, a data

byte and finally a check byte. all having a '0' bit between. If we assume address, data and check bytes have say 4 '1's and 4 '0's, then an average command sequence would last approx 4.6 milli seconds, ie about 1/200 of a second. So, you can only send about

200 commands in a second. And they would follow each other if you were fast enough. Not that I believe this would happen in practice.

So, twiggling all rotary controls at the same time would end up causing the master elite controller to send a sequnce

of controls at the max approx rate of 200 per second. This, I believe, is the best 'simultaneous' sequence control one can get. Not bad for a model train system!

Hopefully, an elite designer could say say rubbish or otherwise!

Ernie

[ernie03]

Forgot to mention I am now going to take a whole lot of paracetamols to get rid of my headache.

Ernie

[poliss]

What I think wiggy is saying is that you can't turn the speed down on control knob one at the same time as turning up the speed on control knob two. In other words you have to alternate between locomotives and you cannot control two locomotives at the

SAME time. This was not what I understood from the video and the manual.
I can control two locomotives at the same time with my two handsets. One is the master and the other is the slave. It would be possible to control many more at the same time with extra

handsets.

[wiggy25]

@Poliss,

Yep that is correct.
So OK you can't control two locos at the same time with the Elite but I've never found that to be an issue, having the two control knobs gives very fast access to two different locos anyway.

I think this has

been made into a bigger issue than really needed, mostly on my part!
The way I understood the original post was can you run two locos at the same time from the Elite.
To me this means actually controlling a loco on each control knob at the same time.
Technically

the answer is no you can't, but in reality because you can swap so fast between the two control knobs it never really becomes an issue and it's almost like you are controlling two locos at the same time anyway.
What you are saying about your system being

able to control two locos at the SAME time with two handsets is exactly the same when the Elite and the Selects are connected together.

When the Select is connected up as a Walkabout unit that becomes the Slave and the Elite the Master.
You can connect

a maximum of 8 Select units up to the Elite which would allow you to run 9 locos at THE SAME TIME.
One loco controlled from the Elite(although you could have one loco assigned to each control knob giving very fast access to two locos) and another 8, one

loco for each Select unit.
Some would say this is no good and there are other systems that can have many handsets connected.
Thats fine but then for those that have a layout that big, they would probably have bought a different system in the first place.

The

only systems I know that can actually operate two locos at the same time using two control knobs on the same console/hanset are the ESU ECoS and the Digitrax DT400/402 handset.
I would hazard a guess that the Viessmann commander and the Marklin central

station could also do it.

All of these systems are more than double the price of the Elite though.

Cheers

Ian

[frazzle]

Guys

Thanks for fully answering my questios in such detail.
Very nice forum this

Paul

[crg]

wiggy25 said:

@Frazzle

You can only be in control of two locos at once, as you will only be able to control one loco at a time through the Elite, OK yes just by switching from one control knob to the other means you can quickly switch

between different locos each assigned to a control knob.

The Select once connected and addressed(you need to give the Select an address this is all shown in the Instructions, I've also done a video in my link below)
http://youtu.be/8BpxhZ5muSo
Will

allow you to be able to control two locos independantly, one loco from the Elite on control knob 1 and one on the Select, to quickly switch to another loco you can turn control knob 2 on the Elite.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't turn control

knob 1 and operate one loco while turning control knob 2 and controlling a second loco at the same time.

@Ernie03
You are correct, if the decoder supports that CV to be changed, then you will be able to reprogram it!
You just need to remember

that a lot of the cheap decoders DON'T support all CV's, if you download the two instruction sheets for both of the Hornby decoders you will see the Sapphire has lots of CV's that can be adjusted, where as the basic decoder only has a few.

@CRQ
I

don't actually understand what you mean?
The R8247 is an accessory decoder to control points, in which case if you have 4 R8247's as an example you could address them as follows, remember that each accessory decoder has 4 ports or outputs this is just showing

each port addressed as 1 through to 16:-
Accessory decoder R8247 number 1 ports 1-4.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 2 ports 5-8.
Accessory Decoder R8247 number 3 ports 9-12.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 3 ports 13-16.

It explains how to

program them in the leaflet that comes with them and in the Elite manual.

You would need to discconect each accessory decoder after programming, so connect the first one up to the program track output and follow the instructions to address the 4 ports(outputs)

as 1-4.
Disconnect this accessory decoder then connect the second one and address these 4 ports(outputs) as 5-8 and so on until they are all programmed.

Each of these decoders can then be connected to the main track, to operate them you just press

the ACC button followed by the address of the output you wish to change, pressing control knob 1 will operate that output address in one direction, pressing control knob 2 will operate the same output address in the other direction.

Cheers

Ian

Ian

thanks. I have programmed the four decoders in accordance with instructions to operate points as you have outlined. I can operate points on decoders 1 and 2, but cannot get decoders 3 and 4 up on the Elite screen. It has just aoccured to me that once I press

'Acc' I can operate points 1 to 14 without looking for each individual decoder. I will try that.

[wiggy25]

Hi Chris,

I've only got the one Hornby accessory decoder, but still not sure what you mean by "getting the decoders 3 and 4 up on the Elite screen"

I thought once the decoders were programmed you just pressed ACC then the output address you

want to operate.
Thats all I do, I only have 3 out of the 4 outputs connected to point motors so all I do is press the ACC button then select the address 1 to 3.(well actually I have it set so the first point as 61 then 62 then 63 so that it will also operate

when a Select is connected up as a Walkabout unit.
I understand that this would be classed as group 1 for addresses 1-4
Or if I've worked it out correctly group 16 for addresses 61-64


Cheers

Ian

[crg]

wiggy25 said:

@Frazzle

You can only be in control of two locos at once, as you will only be able to control one loco at a time through the Elite, OK yes just by switching from one control knob to the other means you can quickly switch

between different locos each assigned to a control knob.

The Select once connected and addressed(you need to give the Select an address this is all shown in the Instructions, I've also done a video in my link below)
http://youtu.be/8BpxhZ5muSo
Will

allow you to be able to control two locos independantly, one loco from the Elite on control knob 1 and one on the Select, to quickly switch to another loco you can turn control knob 2 on the Elite.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't turn control

knob 1 and operate one loco while turning control knob 2 and controlling a second loco at the same time.

@Ernie03
You are correct, if the decoder supports that CV to be changed, then you will be able to reprogram it!
You just need to remember

that a lot of the cheap decoders DON'T support all CV's, if you download the two instruction sheets for both of the Hornby decoders you will see the Sapphire has lots of CV's that can be adjusted, where as the basic decoder only has a few.

@CRQ
I

don't actually understand what you mean?
The R8247 is an accessory decoder to control points, in which case if you have 4 R8247's as an example you could address them as follows, remember that each accessory decoder has 4 ports or outputs this is just showing

each port addressed as 1 through to 16:-
Accessory decoder R8247 number 1 ports 1-4.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 2 ports 5-8.
Accessory Decoder R8247 number 3 ports 9-12.
Accessory decoder R8247 number 3 ports 13-16.

It explains how to

program them in the leaflet that comes with them and in the Elite manual.

You would need to discconect each accessory decoder after programming, so connect the first one up to the program track output and follow the instructions to address the 4 ports(outputs)

as 1-4.
Disconnect this accessory decoder then connect the second one and address these 4 ports(outputs) as 5-8 and so on until they are all programmed.

Each of these decoders can then be connected to the main track, to operate them you just press

the ACC button followed by the address of the output you wish to change, pressing control knob 1 will operate that output address in one direction, pressing control knob 2 will operate the same output address in the other direction.

Cheers

Ian

[crg]

Ian - many thanks. The penny has dropped at last. I thought it necessary to select each decoder separately, but of course once you select 'Acc' you can operate ALL points on all decoders. Thanks again.

Chris