Lt Cmdr Datas Cat Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 The size of my oo layout is going to be approx 4m x 1.5m. It is going to be loosely based on a well known internet shop's layout available on fleabay for a small fortune (well, maybe it is not a well known internet shop!). They show 5 locos running on 3 lines simultaneously of which I think at least 3 have sound.Via Anyrail (very good package imho) Ive created the same layout and intend to edit it to just 2 main lines with 2 smallish marshalling yards. I dont really see running more than 2 sound locos hauling 5 carriages each at any one time. One set of carriages will deffo be Pullmans with carriage lighting. Im probably going to install point motors, maximum number of points will be about 10 or 12. Im considering powering these initially via the Elite's auxillary ports and Im aware this will take the DCC train supply down to 3 amps. The points would be operated via switches rather than DCC though. A separate points power supply may be considered as future upgrade. Train control will be via the Hornby Elite v1.44.I cannot find much about the Elite's technical specs other than it is powered by a 4 amp 16v power supply. I intend to use a 'star' bus (buss?) to power the track with dropper wires. Ive seen some folks use a seemingly massive wire size for their bus (looks like 10awg size at least) which considering the layout size, seems overkill.Searching the net, a couple of sites suggest even 24v systems carrying 10 amp with a 5 metre run would be perfectly ok using 20 awg wire with minimal voltage drop. In fact, they suggest youd only need increase wire size with these figure over a 10 metre run to combat voltage drop.Unless I start adding boosters, I cant see how Im going to be pushing more than the 4 amp the Elite's power supply can handle so, shouldnt 20 awg multi strand cable be more than adequate for my sub 4 metre 'star' bus? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Lt Cmdr.........I suggest you have a good read through Brian Lambert's guide to DCC http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/ there is much you misunderstand about the power supply and control of a model railway according to your post.........you will find his guide invaluable....... 😀..........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Answering the title question - no! Elite with 4 Amp supply will power your layout without raising a sweat. You will need a CDU for your points. do a forum search on CDU. Also do a forum search on bus wire and you will get more than you need on the topic, including from Flashbang who is Brian Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Cmdr Datas Cat Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Lt Cmdr.........I suggest you have a good read through Brian Lambert's guide to DCC http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/ there is much you misunderstand about the power supply and control of a model railway according to your post.........you will find his guide invaluable....... 😀..........HBEr, thanks but no, I dont think there is much I misunderstand. And yes, Ive been through Brian's site a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Cmdr Datas Cat Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Answering the title question - no! Elite with 4 Amp supply will power your layout without raising a sweat. You will need a CDU for your points. do a forum search on CDU. Also do a forum search on bus wire and you will get more than you need on the topic, including from Flashbang who is Brian Lambert. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 10 amps? Wow. Read Brian Lambert again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Cmdr Datas Cat Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 10 amps? Wow. Read Brian Lambert again. OK. I dont need to read Brian's site again. May I suggest people read the whole post properly instead of resorting in a put down way. The overall premise was on wire size. I used an arbitrary 10 amps as an example in connection with wire size. Did I say 'I am going to be using 10 amps on my DCC circuit'? No. I did not.Perhaps the mods could close this thread and I'll take my queries elsewhere. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Whether, the power for the solenoid points is derived from a separate power supply or from the Elite AUX. Fitting a CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit) is IMHO a must. Solenoid points need a lot of current, up to 3 or 4 amps to fire robustly (particularly if firing two points together). A CDU can provide this high current kick from the energy stored in the capacitors. This means that a power source with a lower current output (such as the Elite AUX output) is still man enough for the job. The CDU charges up more sedately from the lower current input..The other reason for using a CDU is that it protects the Solenoid point coils from being heat damaged. Once the CDU has pulsed the Solenoid coil with the firing current, the residual current flow drops to a few milli-amps. The CDU doesn't start charging again until the Solenoid load of the point just fired is removed. Without the CDU, if the operating switch is held closed for too long the coil starts top overheat and swell, eventually burning out. The CDU prevents this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 @LT Cmdr.........it is regrettable that you would take a negative view of a couple of posts here today.........any reply or advice is given with the intention of being friendly and helpful and certainly not to cause offence.........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Sometimes things don’t read the same as they would if they were spoken. My post certainly didn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Lt Cmdr,.Just playing 'devil's advocate' here. I had to read your original post at least twice, before I realised that you did indeed not mean to indicate that you wanted to push 10 amps through your DCC layout..The lack of paragraph gaps (see TIP below on this) leads many to 'skip-read' long posts. This can result with key aspects of meaning being lost or at the very least over-looked. I genuinely believe that members misunderstood what you were trying to ask and just jumped to incorrect conclusions..Posting TIP..It is unfortunate that the forum 'save a post' and the forum 'reply to post' text boxes do not observe WISIWIG (What I See Is What I Get). The first paragraph mark is stripped out by the forum software prior to publication. This results in all the text being truncated up into one long expanse of text, making reading more difficult..The workaround to this is to add a second 'line break' paragraph mark in your text as you write it. Only the first gets stripped out, leaving the second one behind to display in the posted text (as it does in this reply). Personally I go one further and add a third 'line break' with a line just containing a " . " full stop period. This allows me to see where my additional line breaks are when I am editing an existing post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 LCDC, one thing your thread does is start to lead people down the wrong garden path with its title. In my reply, I first disposed of that red herring, then answered your question, hopefully. Then, I’m very much one for trying to put correctly descriptive titles on topics, it leads to better answers when people read the title and have an interest in it. Conversely, when you put 10Amps in the title and we know it is British OO DCC, everyone immediately starts thinking grossly excessive, more than double the max 4Amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane1707819582 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 in theory the elite power supply is capable of delivering 4 amps without any problems ,then the conductors of your bus cable should be capable of handling 4 amps . does 20 awg / 0.5 mm2 do that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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