Does R1184 'Ketley Hall' have a Select incompatibility?

[NinthPlanet]

Hi,

Back in February I bought a Hornby Select controller (firmware version 1.5) because using a laptop/eLink combo is a bit of a pain where my layout is located. The first time I introduced my 'Ketley Hall' TTS locomotive to the Select, the decoder broke, resulting in a permanent short circuit across the loco.

I sent the locomotive to Hornby for repair, who very kindly replaced the decoder without charge (even though I explained I'd had the loco longer than a year). Despite this, Ketley Hall still does not work with the Select controller. Below are the steps I took when I got the loco back from Hornby:

1. Sat loco on programming track, tested sound functions with eLink controller. All sounds worked.
2. Modified loco volume and address CVs with eLink controller. Programming successful.
3. Turned on sounds (F1) with Select controller. Sound worked OK.
4. Tried to turn off sounds with Select controller. Sound remained on, so test fail.
5. Placed loco on the layout with Select controller. Commanded loco to move forwards. Loco didn't move, merely made a buzzing noise.
6. Replaced Select controller for the eLink on the layout and commanded loco fowards. Loco moved forwards, so test successful.
7. Finally, with the eLink controller on the layout, I turned the loco sounds on and ran the loco both forwards and in reverse for five minutes. No issues found.

The only two explanations I can think of for this behaviour is that either the Select controller is faulty (the '5' key requires a bit of force to work, but otherwise works perfectly with all of my other locos fitted with Hornby's standard DCC decoder), or the Hall TTS chip and the Select controller aren't compatible with one another.

Has anyone else experienced this issue, or can shed some light on what might be happening?

Thanks in advance. 😀

[96RAF]

Try a reset of the Select per the v1.5 manual.

 

There is no reason why the Select cannot operate any DDC decoder. Mine works fine both in stand alone mode and as a Walkabout to the Elite, with any Hornby decoder.

 

I presume your loco has an address within the Select range 1-59.

 

Rob

[NinthPlanet]

Try a reset of the Select per the v1.5 manual.

...

Rob

Thanks for replying to my post. I reset the Select controller as per your suggestion. Sadly, it wasn't successful. I performed the following:

1. Reset the Select controller as per the manual's instructions.
2. Placed the loco onto the layout and commanded the loco forwards. Ketley Hall did move forwards.
3. Commanded the loco to reverse. Loco reversed.
4. Pressed '1', followed by 'function' to turn the sound on. Sound did not turn on.
5. Commanded the loco forwards. Loco did not respond.
6. Disconnected the Select and substituted for the eLink. Loco was able to move forwards, backwards and with sound.

Could it be a faulty Select controller, then?

[96RAF]

OK thanks for trying the reset.

There was a problem with some TTS that required them to be reprogrammed by the factory.

Try this - just switch the loco round to face the other way and see if that makes any difference to the way it responds.

As you said earlier one of your buttons was being a bit iffy, can you confirm that when you change direction the Select green light indicates the changed direction each time.

Rob

[96RAF]

Another thing is what address is this loco set on, as people have reported some addresses can behave oddly. Try a different address for it and if you can please readdress it using the Select. You can recheck with RM what the CVs are reading then.

Rob

[2e0dtoeric]

I don't have a Select, but if I read what you did - correctly, you selected 1 then F. On the Elite, it's the other way around - select F first, then the func number second!

[96RAF]

The Select you press a number then Function key and display shows on, do it again and screen shows of.

For the lights F0 you can get away without entering the number just a quick press of the function button.

Rob

[2e0dtoeric]

😎

[96RAF]

@2eric

Elite - you tell it what you want to do first, loco, accessory or function, then punch in just a single digit, hence the function range screens (F0-9, F10-19, F20-28)

Select - you can input one or two digits, then you pick what its for (select button for loco/accessory and function button for function). If you did it the other way round and picked select or function first then started punching in numbers say 25, would it react to the number two or wait and see if there was a five coming and if so for how long.

There is logic to everything, not always obvious.

Rob

[96RAF]

Just bumping this post to keep it in view until the OP comes back with further info as requested.

Rob

[NinthPlanet]

Apologies for not getting back sooner. I've just performed the following (and long!) test, which takes into account the direction 'Ketley Hall' is facing and the loco address. Here are the results:

 

With loco addr = 6, facing right

1. Sound already on, despite not commanding it on!
2. Command forwards = success
3. Command reverse = success
4. Turn sound on = (displayed 'ON'), but sound already on
5. Turn sound off = (displayed 'OF') FAIL - sound remained on
6. Command forwards = FAIL
7. Command reverse = FAIL

 

Select controller switched off to face loco left, then powered on again

1. Sound no longer on
2. Command reverse = success
3. Command forwards = FAIL
4. Turn sound on = (displayed 'ON') FAIL
5. Turn sound off = (displayed 'OF'), but sound already off
6. Command forwards = FAIL
7. Command reverse = FAIL

 

Loco address programmed to '3' and loco 3 selected, Select remained powered on from previous tests, loco still facing left

1. Sound was off.
2. Command forwards = FAIL
3. Command reverse = FAIL
4. Turn sound on = (displayed 'ON') FAIL
5. Turn sound off = (displayed 'OF'), but sound already off
6. Command forwards = FAIL
7. Command reverse = FAIL

 

Select controller switched off to face loco right (still with address = 3), then powered on again

1. Sound was off
2. Command reverse = FAIL
3. Command forwards = FAIL
4. Turn sound on = (displayed 'ON') FAIL
5. Turn sound off = (displayed 'OF'), but sound already off
6. Command forwards = FAIL
7. Command reverse = FAIL

 

Loco address programmed to '6' and loco 6 selected, Select remained powered on from previous tests, loco still facing right

1. Sound was off.
2. Command forwards = FAIL
3. Command reverse = FAIL
4. Turn sound on = (displayed 'ON') FAIL
5. Turn sound off = (displayed 'OF'), but sound already off
6. Command forwards = FAIL
7. Command reverse = FAIL

 

Finally, I confirmed Ketley Hall's current locomotive address with my eLink controller, which was '6'. Ran Ketley forwards and in reverse, and turned the sound on and off, without any problems.

 

I'm not sure what to make of these results myself. The Select always displays the correct direction light, and text on its display. The only conclusion I can draw is that touching the function button on my Select controller prevents the loco from performing any future instructions. Ketley works faultlessly on the eLink controller. 

[96RAF]

Thanks for the detailed testing.

My opinion based on your report is the Select function button has a problem.

This info flagged back to Hornby but I think your Select has a problem and you should approach HCC with regard to a fettle by them.

Rob

[NinthPlanet]

Many thanks for the help RAF96. I will contact Hornby later in the week about my Select controller. If I'm given any information on what the cause of the issue is from Hornby, I'll try and remember to post it here in case anyone else experiences a similar issue.

[NinthPlanet]

I contacted Hornby support and, after a bit of back and forth, it turns out that the cause of the problem was that I was using analogue power clips. It so happens that the Hornby Track Link Wire Pack (R8201) is supplied with analogue power clips, which disrupt the command signals from the Select controller. I replaced the analogue power clips with the Digital Power Connecting Clips (R8242) and all is now well. 😀

 

In conclusion, if you are using the link wire pack on a DCC layout, you need to replace the supplied power clips with 2x R8242. I am a bit puzzled by this because I thought the link wire pack was designed to allow power transfer between running loops on a DCC layout.

[Howbi]

@NinthPlanet.........Your last paragraph is interesting because I, for one, have never thought to use the link wire pack on a DCC layout because I always regarded it as for DC use only........A DCC layout is meant to be live all over either by using DCC point clips or dropper wires to a BUS.........it has oft been  mentioned on the Forum that the capacitors in power clips always be snipped out if using on a DCC layout............HB

[96RAF]

I concur that the DC link wire clips will distort the DCC signal and as stated above this is widely covered both on the forums and in RM itself. but that doesnt explain why the elink works OK but not the Select Unless these wires were only being ised with the Select.

Another case of the forum chasing the wrong tail due to not all relevant information being posted, although the info provided seemed fairly comprehensive and applied to the fault. We live and learn.

Rob

[Fishmanoz]

And you don’t need to replace DC power clips and tracks, just convert them to DCC use by flipping open the black plastic cover and clipping off the legs of the capacitor inside, throwing the capacitor away and closing the cover. 

[NinthPlanet]

Hi all,

 

Just to address a few points raised. Firstly, to quote this very website's product page for the Track Link Wire Pack (R8201):

 

Suitable to connect one isolated circuit to another.  Ideal for use on a Digital layout where the whole layout is required to be 'live'.

 

Therefore, I thought the power clips were DCC. The only way to tell an analogue from a digital power clip without dismantling them is that the DCC power clips have a little black "DCC" sticker on the base (which I didn't know until I received my digital power clips yesterday). Since the DC power clip setup works perfectly fine with the eLink, I didn't assume this to be the problem.

 

I was using power clips from link wire packs with both the eLink and Select controllers on both my layout and programming track, not exclusively with the Select controller. It seems that the eLink can handle the extra capacitance, whereas the Select cannot.

 

Anyhow, I've learnt something from the experience and I'll get the side cutters out if I need to convert any DC power clips to DCC.  😀

[Howbi]

@NinthPlanet........glad you're sorted now, we all learn summat new every day........pity Hornby are not always precise with the product description and usage detail ........would avoid a lot of confusion...........HB

[Chrissaf]

It's a fact of life that shop and product blurb tends to be written by the Marketing departments rather than engineers.