Reverse Loop with Elite and Select (combined)

[muzza1234]

I have a relatively small to medium sized layout, and run the trains mainly via the "Elite" unit. 

I only recently just decided to add in a "reverse loop."

I also own a "Select" unit and can connect both via the xpressnet port.

Is it possible to run the reverse loop via the "Select" unit? If this is possible, then I can save some $$$ and not have to buy a separate reverse loop module.

I was only just today reading about how the "power booster" module can also serve as a reverse loop module, so I figured if that is possible, then the "Select" unit could do the same thing.

The select unit takes it's power from the Elite unit. Are there any benefits in plugging the Select unit into the mains via it's own power plug? Can the Select unit therefore act as it's own "power booster?"

Regards, Murray

 

[Howbi]

Sorry, Murray but what you're suggesting is not possible, the consequences would be sparks and conflagration.......an expert will be along soon to explain why........ 🤔...........HB

[96RAF]

Elite and Select are controllers, they tell the decoders what to do and when. When each is used stand alone they also apply power to the track. With the Select connected as a slave walkabout it takes its power from the master controller. Plug in power to a walkabout when connected to a master and you will kill it/them, no doubt about that at all.

 

Connect any two or more controllers to the same track and you will kill them, no doubt about that at all.

 

Booster unit takes the controller signal and passes it to a completely electrically isolated power district - powered by its own power unit. An aside is that the booster also acts as a reversing module, by switching the track polarity as required. It does not control, it only passes commands. Do not connect the booster except as per the instructions (there are several way but only ise one at a time), if you connect the booster to an Elite boost terminals you will kill them both, no doubt about that at all.

 

Reverse loop module swaps the track polarity as required, thats it - no other function. It has no separate power connection.

 

As stated previously and repeated by HB above if you randomly  connect these devices in any other way than they are designed to work you will kill them, no doubt about that at all.

 

Rob

[pd91223]

Look at the price of the Hornby R8238 Reverse Loop Module at Hattons. Hopefully that wouldn't break the bank ... and a lot cheaper than a booster unit.

[Chrissaf]

Let me use the analogy of a large Railway Station PA (Public Address) system. There is one microphone and one announcer (DCC controller). But the audio from the microphone may pass through many amplifiers (boosters) to reach the speakers (DCC power districts) and target audience (DCC Decoders). Thus only one single voice is heard, but in a number of different station areas (DCC power districts). As a member of the target audience (DCC decoder) moves from one station area to another (one DCC power district to another), the audience member (DCC Decoder)  can still hear the SAME announcer (DCC digital command) as a continuous unbroken broadcast.

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Add a second microphone and announcer (second DCC controller) and even if the announcer is speaking the exact same script as the first announcer, then no matter how much the two announcers try to speak the same script in synchronisation, there will be slight variances of timing. The mis-mash of the speech coming out of the speakers is so unintelligible as the target audience (DCC decoders) cannot distinguish one voice (controller commands) from the other. This becomes even worse if the two announcers are speaking different scripts (controllers issuing different DCC commands).

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DCC is a 'Digital' signal protocol. It requires specific and synchronised timing to maintain the intelligibility of the transmitted DCC signal to the receiving decoder. There must ultimately be a single source (controller) of the generated DCC command signal. The booster and the reverse loop modules maintain the integrity of the DCC digital signal timing as they process the DCC signal through them. This can't be done using multiple controllers because they are not designed to do that function. Connecting two LIVE controller outputs electrically together (still possible even if using insulated rail joiners) may cause irreparable damage to the controllers, again because their internal circuits (unlike boosters and reverse loop modules) have not been designed to support such a physical electrical configuration.

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When a Select is used as a 'Walkabout Slave' via 'Expressnet' with an Elite. The Select is NOT generating the DCC signal command. It is only telling the Elite what DCC command to generate on its behalf. Thus in the terms of my analogy....there is only a single announcer speaking, but he is being told what to say by another who can't be directly heard by the target audience. Once you connect an external power supply source to the Select, the 'Walkabout Slave' mode is disabled and the Expressnet communication link to the Elite is lost.

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As other's have stated. The idea that you have proposed is unworkable.

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Hatton's (as others have stated) have the R8238 as a heavily discounted product for just a measly £12 plus delivery.

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For information: This R8238 product works more reliably with the Hornby 4 amp DCC power supply. If you use the Hornby 1 amp DCC power supply with your DCC controller, put the R8238 switch in the "Select" position. The "Elite" position is for the 4 amp supply. Sometimes when using the 1 amp supply, the R8238 fails to switch and generates a short circuit, even when in the "Select" switch position.