Converting Hornby Triang vintage Diesel Shunter to DCC

[SammySquirrel]

I have been trying to convert this shunter to DCC but although I have already posted this on the forum the advice given has not worked completely. I keep getting my controller cutting out and the decoder will not programme.

I think it is because of short circuiting on to the chassis

I am therefore looking for a covertion guide sheet 

I notice on the forum that Schule52 has a topic query on this loco so perhaps he has a copy???

IF ANTONE CAN HELP ME I WOULD BE GRATEFUL

Sammysquirrel

[Fishmanoz]

Sammy some more info on the shunter would be helpful, model number, motor include etc.

 

Given you haven’t blown the decoder, you do not have a short to chassis problem.

 

Given Tri-ang, probably an X04 or variant so should be easy to convert.  Only thing you have to do with them is put insulating sleeve on the uninsulated side of the spring holding the brushes.

 

If you are using a 1Amp supply on Select or eLink, it may be that your shunter is drawing more than that, hence the overload.  It will likely be a weak magnet causing the current, remagnetising would reduce the current. 

 

But this is all hypothesis until you provide more info.

[Chrissaf]

Sammy,

I notice that in your other two threads, that forum members have spent some time putting together a reply to your questions. And so far, you have not replied back with any acknowledgement to say either 'Thank you' or 'That worked' or 'That didn't work' etc. It is just a 'common courtesy' to thank members for their contribution input. If you don't, then there is a possibility that members that have been miffed by this, might start ignoring your future requests for assistance.

[The son of Triangman]

All locos should be in good running order and in clean serviced condition before conversion. Any faults with running will show up under DCC control.  I am posting the link to my conversion guide, if you follow it you should be ok unless the loco has a problem with wheel bushes and/or motor or motor magnet in which case they need sorting before you convert it.

 

You will need to know the stall current of the motor before you even consider fitting a decoder. The motor  magnets can and indeed do loose magnetisim over time, your motor might be drawing over 1Amp so out of the max current limit of a standard decoder, if this is the case the motor magnet will need re-magnetising.  You can't just bung on any decoder and expect it to work.

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/making-the-x03-and-x04-dcc-fitted-the-proper-way!/

[SammySquirrel]

All locos should be in good running order and in clean serviced condition before conversion. Any faults with running will show up under DCC control.  I am posting the link to my conversion guide, if you follow it you should be ok unless the loco has a problem with wheel bushes and/or motor or motor magnet in which case they need sorting before you convert it.

 

You will need to know the stall current of the motor before you even consider fitting a decoder. The motor  magnets can and indeed do loose magnetisim over time, your motor might be drawing over 1Amp so out of the max current limit of a standard decoder, if this is the case the motor magnet will need re-magnetising.  You can't just bung on any decoder and expect it to work.

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/making-the-x03-and-x04-dcc-fitted-the-proper-way!/

 

[The son of Triangman]

?????? Hi Sammy, I see you have enclosed my post, any reason why?

[Chrissaf]

Sammy,

As a follow up to my earlier reply regarding responding to contributor posts, you seem to have difficulty in performing the task of 'replying' to posts.

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You will have better luck with your replies if you do not use the 'white arrow in the blue box' button. This is not a 'Reply to this post' button. It is better to write your reply in the 'Reply text box' at the bottom of the page and click the green 'Reply' button.

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Many forum newbies struggle with making a reply. I blame the forum software developers for putting the 'blue button' there, just where a newbie expects to find a 'reply' button. On this forum, unlike others, there is NO reply button included in each individual post.

[SammySquirrel]

Continuing my previous topic

My apologies to all who have replied to my topic

I wish to say thank you to all

unfortunately I do not know how to answer your comments

I am 80 years of age 

I have put heatshrink on the brush clip and I have tried various 

decoders without success,  Railmaster will not read the cv's and 

it is short circuiting the elink controller

The basic decoder I am using is the Hornby 8249

Sammysquirrel

 

[Chrissaf]

Post above moved here from a freshly started topic thread.

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Sammy, see the instructions I have left in the other thread you started that describes with a screen shot how to post a reply.

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For the Information of the forum membership.

Sammy's loco is a Hornby X04 Hornby R156 Class 08 Diesel Shunter 0-6-0 No:13012 (this info was placed by Sammy in the other thread topic title).

[Chrissaf]

PS - Sammy,

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In case you are struggling to access the excellent 'How To' posted by 'Son of Triangman' in his reply above timed at 08:51......here is his link again in a clickable form. Just 'left-click' the link below and a new tab/page will open giving step by step instructions.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/making-the-x03-and-x04-dcc-fitted-the-proper-way!/

[SammySquirrel]

THANKS FORTHE LINK

I will have another go using The son of Triangman's instructions

[Rog RJ]

THANKS FORTHE LINK

I will have another go using The son of Triangman's instructions

 

The Hornby R8249 decoder isn't really suitable for the old X03/X04 motors as these motors can easily take more current than the R8249 decoder is able to handle.  It is quite possible that the decoder you have has already burnt out.  The  Hornby Sapphire decoder is much more suitable, as are many other makes of decoder which can handle the higher current demand.

 

[The son of Triangman]

Tri-ang power bogie for Hymek Class 35 R.758, DCC converted, the Blue Pullman conversion is fairly similar, it is an easy conversion to do, I have done dozens and dozens of them over the years. The R.8249 standard decoder won't be man enough for the job, I agree with Rog, you need something beefier that can handle a 1Amp stall current or higher.

 

Someone had tried to convert this one and made a right hash of it, they even melted some of the black plastic "top hat", so it came to me to sort out. Note I have used feed clips again and not soldered directly to the brushes.  Soldering to the brushes causes you problems when trying to replace them after they wear out.

 

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[SammySquirrel]

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice

I will purchase a heavier decoder and take all your suggestions into account when I 

retry to fit a decoder.  I will seek help to establish the stall speed too.

Watch this space!!!!

Sammysquirrel

 

[Chrissaf]

I will seek help to establish the stall speed too.

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Sammy, here is a 'How To' for testing 'Stall Current' (PS - it is 'Stall Current' not 'Stall Speed')

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#NORMAL

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Note that you need a DC power source (preferably a DC Analogue loco controller with a 1.5 Amp or higher output) for measuring 'Stall Current', you can't use your DCC controller. Not only that, but you measure the 'Stall current' before the decoder is installed.

[The son of Triangman]

This is a similiar Tri-ang chassis to the Tri-ang class 08. It has a micro decoder with a 1Amp stall current.  The space for the decoder in the body this chassis was going into was limited, so a micro decoder was used in this case. Note I had yet to shorten the black wire and fit a solder tag to the Black wire at the back of the motor magnet where it fits on the chassis(original solder tag was missing). the black wire was longer for testing purposes only.

 

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[Howbi]

Well Kevin, some of us quite enjoy the challenge of converting older locos to DCC and with successful results.........I never had to use a Sapphire decoder, there are suitable 6 & 8 pin alternatives........never had to spend hours with MM & solder........glad to hear you are happy with your analogue locos........ 😀.........HB

[The son of Triangman]

The Sapphire was just an example, there are other decoders capable of taking 1Amp such as the rather good cheapy Hattons one.  The Hattons one retails around £11 so not expensive.  DCC conversion isn't for all, I still run a DC layout for my own use, along with a little DCC layout. 

 

The simple rule of thumb with loco coversion is to electrically isolate the motor from the supply.  The conversion of the Tri-ang 08 and Jinty without smoke are about the easiest old locos you can convert.

 

I respect your decision to stick with DC.

[RDS]

 Hi Sammy,

 One of the reasons I gave up and have got myself a decent DC controller.

 I fried 2 decoders trying to DCC a Triang Blue Pullman, almost broke my new Bachmann 105 trying to get the body shells off to install the decoders.

 Then the expense of the decoders etc, etc.

I have ordered a quality, Gaugemaster DC controller with "Simulation" ... Braking, Coasting, Inertia !  Big and hefty like the controllers used to be ! :)

 Sometimes, the simple things in life are often the best.

I have no desire or need for sound, gimmicks, or running a hundred trains at the same time, so a 'no brainer' for me.

 Also, the Elite & Select controllers look & feel like $10 plastic chinese junk.

 The build quality of these Hornby controllers is horrid.

 I haven't used mine long enough to find out how they even hold up. I just dumped them both on ebay.

 Kev.

 

Kevin, Your original post has been removed due to the disguised poor language you have used.  That type of Language is unacceptable on this Forum.

[RDS]

 Hi Jimbopuff,

 I don't mean to sound so anti Hornby or DCC.

 Each to his own, but I have a growing collection of old locos that are hard to chip, and some new ones that are easily damaged removing the bodies from the chassis to fit the decoder etc.

 

In the end, I thought, forget it. The expense of the decoders, all the hassel etc, and for what benefit ?

 

I want to be able to run all my 1960's locos.

 

DCC doesn't cut it when it comes to fitting older locos. (well maybe it does if you can stump up the cash for a Sapphire decoder) and then spend hours with a multi meter & soldering iron.

 

Back to DC for me.

 

Kev.

 

Kevin, Again, your original post has been removed due to the disguised poor language you have used.  That type of Language is unacceptable on this Forum.

[RDS]

Hello Kev

I can sympathise with much of your statement. Having started with DCC about 4 years ago I have acquired more than DCC-fitted 50 locos and both an Select and an Elite controller. My thinking was about "future-proofing".

More recently I have built a couple of Analogue layouts and being stone-deaf I realised that I really didn't need the complications, snags and expense of DCC.  (here I am starting up the eternal argument again - oops !) Also the fact that DC is less sensitive slight dirt on the tracks is much in its favour. Also the fact that older locos can be run, which are difficult to convert.

So now I am building a dual sytem layout as my main one and have stopped buying DCC-fitted locos  - a big relief to my wallet.  Still getting loads of enjoyment from the hobby.

 

Jimbopuff,

Your original post has been removed but the gist of it is copied above.

This is due to the disguised poor language from another member that you were querying.  That type of Language is unacceptable on this Forum.  

[SammySquirrel]

well!!

I've tried yet again to convert my diesel shunter using a different decoder.

I took the loco back to it's analogue state, checked the shunter ran ok

Then fitted the decoder and then tried to get Railmaster to download the cv's for DCC

but came  up with trhe same results - loco was short circuiting the controller

I have checked stall count which is 0.80amp  I have renewed the brush set

I am awaiting delivery of a heftier decoder but I don't what else to try

Frustrated!!!

Sammysquirrel

[Chrissaf]

Are you using the eLink with RailMaster or the Hornby Elite.

.

The standard eLink power supply is rated at 1 AMP max. Having a single loco drawing about 0.8 Amps added to any other DCC loads that might be still connected is likely to push the controller into overload. This of course assumes that you have performed the conversion 100% correctly as advised by SoT and there is no inherent 'short circuit' being generated by the loco.

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These old Triang DCC conversions really do need a beefier power supply.

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If you do have an eLink with the standard 1 AMP power supply, then the Hornby P9300 15 VDC 4 AMP power supply is the Hornby recommended upgrade replacement.

[Rog RJ]

A picture or two of your loco might help someone on the forum to diagnose the problem.

[The son of Triangman]

Sounds like you have a short circuit somewhere? Is the motor is still connected to the power somehow, it should have been be fine, my method has worked for others on here and for myself for years.

Have you insulated both sides of the brush retaining spring?  Are there any foreign objects such as track pins present?  Are the wheel bushes worn causing a momentary wheel contact with the cast chassis?  The motor brushes should be electrically isolated from the power supply. Try removing the old X.297 capacitor from the conversion as well.

 

Below is the motor for the old R.152. See my note about insulating on the drawing and the live side of the X.73 brush spring, both sides must be fully insulated with the insulation behind the brushes like the side that is already insulated. Use insulation from 0.2/7 wire as it maintains the correct tension on the brushes and keeps brush wear correct.

 

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