paul.b Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Hi alli just dont believe my luck i have had issues with power on my layout and with the help of Chrissaf on this forum i got the issues sorted until 45mins ago when i went to turn the layout on and the power supply for the elite has died ( I think). I have Booster which has its own psu so i tried that with the elite and the elite powered up ok..Is it normal for the psu just pack up suddenly it was running fine this afternoon paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Like most things electrical, it's the luck of the draw. But as you are aware Paul, you have been giving your Elite power supply quite a bit of stress lately. For example, when you had ALL nine of your ADS decoders tripping the Elite (and in effect its supply) with the in-rush current surges at start up. Then there was the RLM that spent some time on its Elite switch setting, thus needing a 3 amp trigger current to switch. Granted, these power supplies are (or should be) designed to shut down to self protect. But it only takes one internal component to fail due to heat (these supplies can and do sometimes run very hot to the touch) and the supply goes..Just for some anecdotal light relief. I am not a heavy user of a mobile phone. I do not own a smart phone, just a basic PAYG Nokia 'make / receive a call' type. It sits in my car glove box awaiting a need to make an emergency call. It normally gets charged in the car if it needs charging. But on this occasion I decided to charge it indoors on the official Nokia charger. Now if I use this charger 3 times a year then that is unusual. So two weeks ago, I plugged the phone in to charge.....nothing.....charger was dead. Not that phones need a lot of current, so the charger only had a 350mA current rating. Although 13 years old and hardly used at all, it just gave up the ghost. These things happen. Incidently, the official Nokia replacement charger is now rated at 450mA, which is rather telling..Getting back to your situation. Unless it is still under warranty, you will probably need to replace the power supply with a Hornby P9300. Anything you can do to limit the normal current load on the supplies will pay for itself in the long run. You are planning quite a large layout. Maybe this is a wakeup call to consider fitting another R8239 Booster for your remaining ADS decoders, thereby dedicating the replacement Elite P9300 power supply just for track and locos..PS - Do check the mains plug fuse first though, just in case.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 HI ChrissFirst thing i did was check the fuse all fine there but i have since put a multimeter across the output and nothing so it is a dead psu seen a new one for £25 , i too think i will need another booster so that the elite psu is for loco power only.....am i right in thinking a new booster has to be connected to the first booster (daisy chain) then connect the remaining ADS`s to that paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 ......am I right in thinking a new booster has to be connected to the first booster (daisy chain)......No, refer back to my earlier posted drawing (in your RLM thread Page 3) where I showed the second (optional) Booster in dotted lines. That is the most reliable way to make the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Hi chrissThanks for that i thought that was the way to do it but the manual that came wirh the booster showed them in daisy chain so i started second guessing myself paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The key phrase in my reply was "That is the most reliable way to make the connection.". They are capable of being daisy chained, but previous forum member posted experiences has shown that basing the connection on Fig 4 in the Booster manual gives the most reliable Booster operation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I had a 4-amp PSU die on me years ago. They are a robust and normally very reliable unit and according to Hornby they have only had a few reported failures. I really must get round to finishing off my Teardown report on this unit.. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/page17.html Ref the Booster - Figure 4 is definitely the best way to rig it and as you can see in the illustration each booster daisy chains from district to district powered by its own PSU. I would not recommend the RJ cable method as it shares circuitry with the Elite Prog output. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Hi Guys Thanks for your help i have ordered a new psu and I`m on the look out for another booster to put the remaining ADS`s onpaul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Hi GuysI have an old select and psu can I use this psu on the elite I know its only 1amp but I need to test a new setup for my power issue that i have had off and on What i have done is i have all my ADS8SX/2SX on the booster that i have already fitted. I have half of them connected direct to the booster the other half are on a DPST switch so i can let the booster power up half of them then 30sec or so later i can throw the switch to power up the rest But I can`t test this as my elite 4 amp psu gave up the ghost last night..the whole point of this is so that the psu on the elite will only be powering track not the ADS`S Paul..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Yes the 1 amp supply should work at a basic level on the Elite. What probably won't happen, is if you get a track short, the Elite won't detect it, but the 1amp supply should start to shut down to protect itself. This is likely to cause the Elite to reboot. Also, if you are running a couple of locos on the 1 amp supply, you might (probably) start seeing RLM trigger errors again. If this happens, just limit yourself to running one loco at a time until the replacement 4 amp supply arrives. If you do start seeing the Elite rebooting excessively, (perhaps as a result of RLM triggers) then personally I would abandon the idea, else you could feasibly be putting extra strain of the Elite internal circuits, or at the very least temporarily stop running trains around the reverse loop as a precautionary measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Hi Chris I will not be running any locos its just so I can check up this startup routine so that when my new 4 amp psu arrives it will be only for powering track nothing else paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 HI Chris Tried the 1 amp psu and now the booster powers all ADS`S so elite will run trains only but somthing strange has happened . I plugged in the so called dead psu and connected it to the elite and about 30 sec later to my amazment the elite powered up .... so i started up railmaster and as railmaster booted up poped on the screen a message...You have your setting set for the elite but it appears you have the elink connected plese check your settings .... realy strange goings on first psu dies then startes to work again and now my elite has morphed into an elink what next 😮 paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 ..You have your setting set for the elite but it appears you have the elink connected plese check your settings .....This message has been reported before on the forum. So far, nobody has been able to fully explain it or come up with a repeatable solution to it. I've never seen it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I am surprised the 1-amp unit is coping with the Elite standing current AND a booster signal, never mind trying to run a single loco. I have found booting an Elite from a 1-amp PSU marginal. It certainly won’t boot my Elite with the backlit screen. As Chris says it drops voltage and the Elite screen fades out. I have seen the Elite vs eLink message before after swapping controllers around to try them and I just closed RM down, restarted the controllers and restarted RM in my usual sequence and all was then well, without fiddling with any settings, etc. Can’t explain why that happens. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi RafI didnt use the 1amp for running anything on the layout just to power up the elite so i could test the booster with all my ADS`S on it (half of them on a DPST switch but what i did find strange is my 4amp psu had no output 24hrs before and when i plugged it back into the elite last night 30sec or so after pluggging it in the elite booted up. Now this morning I tried the 4amp psu and nothing no power elite didnt boot...the psu seems to power up when it wants too but no matter a replacement is in the post but I would like to get to the bottom of the psu working one minute and dead the next. paul.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I think it could be as simple as a broken wire inside the DC cable sheath (which is quite stiff) or the plug is fitting badly in the Elite socket. Use your multi-meter to check output whilst wiggling wires. An old ‘bodge’ was to gently squeeze the jack plug in your pliers to make it oval and hence a more interference fit in the Elite socket. If you are competent you could have a look at my Teardown (previously linked to) and pull it apart to see if there is an obvious fault that you could fix, a bad joint, broken wire, etc. However remember you are dealing with a mains voltage unit and you fiddle with it at your own risk and legally in UK and many other countries you are not allowed to fix it without getting an approved sparkie to inspect your work and certify it as safe. I repeat only try this if you are fully confident working on mains potential kit. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi RafI have had my multimeter across the output jack on the psu and there was no output but when it worked last night i tried it again and there was power there and this morning nothing again ...i will try my meter and wiggle the cable and see if i get anything paul.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbram Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi Paul, I had something similar with the supply of one of my laptops, In the end the 240V lead was broken right behind the plug (I found that the connection between the wall plug and the plug that goes into the psu was intermittent and made a wild guess and cut the cable right behind the wall plug, 1st time lucky). After fitting a new plug, psu was up and running again (it is no fun when you are planning to update your Elite and Windows suddenly goes "replace battery now or all work will be lost"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi Guysjust an update to the elite 4 amp psu...all fixed now there was a break in the cable from the psu to the plug to the elite about 4 inches from the round elite plug so I cut the break out and soldered the wires back together and covered with heat shrink, and all ok elite powers up perfectly so when the new psu comes i will put the repaired psu away for emergengies Thanks for all the help Guys paul..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Good to hear you fixed it Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Paul, if you want to make an even neater repair. Here is a link to ebay for a 6.3mm / 3.0mm plug that you can solder onto the end of the wires and do away with an inline heat shrinked joint. Note that you need to select the correct size from the pull down selection box......see image../media/tinymce_upload/ec6bb7e1c532af0ab86b2548654eb5a2.jpg.Alternatively, here is a 6.3mm 3.1mm version of the plug from a different ebay supplier. Again use the pull down box to select this plug size. Note the official Hornby plug is 9mm long not 14mm../media/tinymce_upload/94d297ab2db42d48713d326bef8de9d4.jpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 PS - Centre pin is usually positive but needs checking to make sure plug is terminated the correct way round for polarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi ChrisThanks i will take a look on ebay that will provide a neater finish to the lead Paul.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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