TTS Class 31 Stand alone decoders

[beejack]

Just bought one of these to replace another decoder that failed.

I have plugged it into my decoder tester to check everything works and also read all the CV's on the chip with decoder pro.  This is something I do with all new chips nbow to ensure no issues before ftting.

Unfortunately it does not seem to want to read CV's 211 thru 215.  Also CV182 does not want to alter the volume.  I can change the value to anything from 0 - 8 with no change in the volume.  Reading the CV in decoder pro tells me the value has changed but the actual volume stays the same.

I have tried resetting CV8 using both the value of 5 and 8 but no change.

I have also tried CV184 as I have read some chips were incorrectly programmed but this didn't have any effect

I had the same issue with the last chip not reading 211 to 215 but at least CV182 worked.  A few days after noticing this, the lights started to play up and then the chip failed completely. 

I'm Using a NCE Powercab. 

Does anyone have any advice other than sending back to Hornby?

 

 

 

 

[Chrissaf]

Does anyone have any advice.......

.

Since you are using a NCE PowerCab only this (as you may possibly be affected by it).

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/hornby-tts-decoders-reported-problems/

[Sultan]

I think it is about time Hornby made sure that their TTS decoders work with other major manufacturers equipment such as NCE.

I cannot find anything which states that TTS decoders are NMRA compliant?

[Howbi]

You could also say that other manufacturers should upgrade their controllers to work with any new decoders when they come to market..........HB

[Chrissaf]

Sultan,

.

The NCE Powercab may not be a controller that is affected by this issue. But if it is, then Hornby are providing a free firmware upgrade for the TTS decoder. So in that respect Hornby are making sure that the decoder is compatible with other controllers. Therefore the comment in your reply is rather unfair.

.

The upgrades that Hornby are offering, is to capture decoders that were in a faulty batch from the manufacturer that may be still sitting on retailer shelves. The current release of TTS decoders already have the firmware upgrade installed and should be compatible with the majority of controllers available today, and not need further upgrading.

.

[Sultan]

Ouch!!

I thought the purpose of the NMRA standards was to prevent problems of incompatability.  Obviously being a layman I iknow nothing of the detail of the NMRA standards but rely on trust that they are worth something.

[96RAF]

There was a batch of diesels that had the master volume CV offset by plus 2 so try adjusting CV184 if the decoder isn’t completely dead. Try a decoder reset writing value 8 to CV8. If the reset brings it back to life and the volume can be adjusted on the higher CV then go back to Hornby with the story.

 

CVs 210-215 are the notch up/down transition settins and should be adjustable and readable.

 

Sultan - Hornby uses very many other make controllers to check its decoders work as best as possible across the industry and they also use other make decoders to check their own controllers work with as many decoders as possible. I bet other manufacturers don’t go to these lengths. The TTS decoders are based on the R8249 decoder which is NMRA compliant at v1.3 onwards so the TTS core decoder should read across.

 

Rob

[2e0dtoeric]

It seems to me that it is only the Powercabs that have problems (disregarding faulty decoders), so I'd be pointing towards them to sort THEIR bugs and gremlins out, not Hornby.

[beejack]

Sultan,

.

The NCE Powercab may not be a controller that is affected by this issue. But if it is, then Hornby are providing a free firmware upgrade for the TTS decoder. So in that respect Hornby are making sure that the decoder is compatible with other controllers. Therefore the comment in your reply is rather unfair.

.

The upgrades that Hornby are offering, is to capture decoders that were in a faulty batch from the manufacturer that may be still sitting on retailer shelves. The current release of TTS decoders already have the firmware upgrade installed and should be compatible with the majority of controllers available today, and not need further upgrading.

.

I thought the issues had now been resolved.  The chip was only purchased yesterday and was of a later batch to the one causing issues.

My other four TTS chips have no issues with the Powercab but maybe the class 31 is an exception. 

[beejack]

There was a batch of diesels that had the master volume CV offset by plus 2 so try adjusting CV184 if the decoder isn’t completely dead. Try a decoder reset writing value 8 to CV8. If the reset brings it back to life and the volume can be adjusted on the higher CV then go back to Hornby with the story.

 

CVs 210-215 are the notch up/down transition settins and should be adjustable and readable.

 

Sultan - Hornby uses very many other make controllers to check its decoders work as best as possible across the industry and they also use other make decoders to check their own controllers work with as many decoders as possible. I bet other manufacturers don’t go to these lengths. The TTS decoders are based on the R8249 decoder which is NMRA compliant at v1.3 onwards so the TTS core decoder should read across.

 

Rob

Hello Rob

I have already tried resetting using both 5 and 8 on CV8.  Neither CV182 or CV184 make any difference although they do report back that their values have changed when read.

I might dust off my e-link and railmaster and see if I can read the CV's.

All other TTS chips are reading fine with the Powercab.

Brian

 

[Chrissaf]

The chip was only purchased yesterday and was of a later batch to the one causing issues.

.

You might be right but how can you be sure it is a later batch. It may have been on the retailer shelf for some considerable time.

.

None of the previous posts give definitive solutions, they are just documenting some possibilities to consider.

.

[jane1707819582]

i use the powercab and have done so for 6 years and have had no problems with any decoder ,i have several tts decoders which i have put through their paces so to speak  ,so in my experience i would say it is not the powercab causing issues .hope this helps . 

[beejack]

ok so just spent the last hour installing a copy of lastest railmaster software and setting up  the e-link.

I selected the tts class 31 and read the CV's.

First issue, railmaster would only read upto CV 29 no further and all higher CVs were greyed out!

Railmaster is seeing it as a non sound decoder.  CV 7 is saying R8249 4 fuction decoder. 

/media/tinymce_upload/392ff4a949014fd9a3ec3d90fd0b50c1.PNG

deleted the current loco profile and set up again using the class 31 tts loco but this time reading only 211 - 215.  All values came out as 000

Changed both CV182 and CV184 to 000 and confirmed that both were now at zero.  sound remained at same level.

Tried my class 47 tts chip and was correctly identified as tts decoder (diesel) in CV7 and all higher function CVs were identified correctly.

/media/tinymce_upload/66edd52bc5aae92c26e4c4520be0fa2a.PNG

All points to a faulty decoder so I'm going to contact customer support and see what they say. 

It also shows it's not the powercab at fault! 

[beejack]

The chip was only purchased yesterday and was of a later batch to the one causing issues.

.

You might be right but how can you be sure it is a later batch. It may have been on the retailer shelf for some considerable time.

.

None of the previous posts give definitive solutions, they are just documenting some possibilities to consider.

.

I can only assume it is from the later batch as they shop hasn't had any in for months and has recently received one!

[96RAF]

CV7 will give the version of the decoder which is the best clue as to its real age and firmware version state.

Ask Hornby to swap it under their no quibble warranty.

Rob

[beejack]

CV7 will give the version of the decoder which is the best clue as to its real age and firmware version state.

Ask Hornby to swap it under their no quibble warranty.

Rob

Hi Rob

used railmaster and the e-link and I believe I found the issue.  Did try to post with images but 3 hours leter and post still not showing.

I found that Railmaster is reading CV7 and CV8 then inserting  R8249 4 function decoder in the status/string box for CV7 effectively identifying it as a non sound chip.  As a result railmaster would not read past CV29.

I didn't save the profile and started again but this time read only in baches but not reading CV8 or CV9

 

CVs 161-184 all showed 004

CVs 211-215  all showed as Zero

I wrote zero to both CV182 and 184, both confirmed as zero and when read back that was again confirmed as zero so should have been silent but no change in volume.

I did a read of the class 47 chip and after reading CV7 and CV8 correctly identified as a TTS decoder (Diesel)

At least I can rule out an issues with the Powercab (although I did expect as much)

Have now sent a message to Hornby explaining the issues and the fault find exercise done.  Will see what they say.

 

Brian

[96RAF]

By double clicking CV7 in RM you invoke a drop down list and can pick TTS from it. There are many TTS options scattered in the list.

 

...once so picked the correct CV list will then populate and read.

 

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Here is an undocumented TIP:

.

Open the 'Locomotive Settings' screen as if for example you were going to set up a new loco purchase. Now completely ignore everything on the main 'Locomotive Settings' screen. Don't try searching for any loco in the Hornby database, don't try filling in any of the text boxes. Just leave everything blank.

.

Now click the CV read/write tool (the i icon) in the bottom 'tool box' bar. This will open the CV read/write window.

.

Now....because you haven't entered any data in any of the previous text boxes. RailMaster has absolutely no idea what decoder or loco you have. This will unlock the CV read/write tool, and now initiating a read of the CVs (the Green tick) will force RM to try and read ALL the CV's without any restricted limitations.

.

Just be aware that any CVs not supported by the decoder, will return a reading error or a 255 value, but the supported CVs will be read (assuming that the decoder is not faulty and is electrically visible to RM).

.

PS - You can also write CV's to decoders using this method too.

.

You can use the CV read/write tool this way completely independently from the rest of RM. Think of it a bit like running JMRI DecoderPro. It is not mandatory that you must load a loco from the database before using the CV read/write tool. Loading a loco from the database is something you do for convenience when using the rest of what RM can do as a whole.

.

 

 

[96RAF]

As Chris said you do not need to select your loco, just put it (or any loco) on the programming track and ask RM to read it.

If it can’t/won’t ID it properly then use the drop down in CV7 to force it to be a TTS diesel if indeed there isn’t a bespoke TTS Class 31 listed. There are listed such as Class 20, other diesels and many steam kettles, etc.

 

The problem is that the early TTS CV7 value is also allocated to R8249 as it used the basic decoder as a base, and it takes other CVs values to properly ID it which RM cannot do yet. I.e. if CV7 is X then what is CV15x and/or CV15y, now pull up that list.

Rob

[96RAF]

To close this out...

 

Hornby says that there is a small batch of TTS decoders where CV7 returns a value of v133, and the master volume control has been shifted from CV182 to CV189. This will be put back to CV182 by v134.

 

Hornby also states that the other issue reported where CV210-215 (notch transition window settings) fails to read is in work. This particular read fault may be present in earlier versions. As we have not seen anyone report it on here before, it goes to show how few folk fiddle with or even notice these useful settings.

 

Rob

[beejack]

Hi Rob

That's interesting.  I will try CV189 and see if that works.  

I have only noticed the issue with CV211-215 on the Class 31 all others including the Vent van read all CV's without issues.

I did try reading the decoder without setting the loco first but having not used railmaster for a number of years was not aware there was a drop down box for CV 7 hence why I just read CVs161-184 and CV211- 215.

Also just read your PM on another forum.    The version of my Powercab is 1.65 and the SB5 is 1.65B.  I use two different USB interfaces and both are version 7.xx.

The Decoder box has the following info 

REF01-10004544

R8101-47-355

I did contact hornby on the 26th and other than the automatic response emails have had no further responses so far.

Cheers 

Brian

[beejack]

Just checked using the esu decoder tester (not yet installed in a loco) and CV189 is indeed changing the overall volume 

Brian

[96RAF]

Beejack Brian

I only have a couple of TTS decoders with me at present a Class 60 which returns CV7=133 and a Class 37 which returns CV7=132. Both fail to read CVs 210-215 and both use CV189 as master volume.

Rob

[96RAF]

Beejack Brian

I only have a couple of TTS decoders with me at present a Class 60 which returns CV7=133 and a Class 37 which returns CV7=132. Both fail to read CVs 210-215 and both use CV189 as master volume.

 

Apologies that should say the Class 37 uses CV182 as master volume not 189.

Rob

[beejack]

Just to close out from my side I eventually received a response from Gary Todd a customer technical advisor.

"Thank you for your email, apologies for the delay, you will need to take this back to the place of purchase for a refund or replacement."

 

So no mention of any issues or any help given.  Doesn't look like they want to help via the official route.

Many thanks to Rob for all the help.  To be honest I will live with it as it is.  I wanted to check before fitting to the loco as this would also include swapping the speaker for a better one.

Not sure if I will bother buying any more TTS decoders.  

Brian