robbi37 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi I have been running a Hornby select DCC system for some time now using mostly Hornby R8249 decoders without any major problems. I have one hornby sound fitted diesel that works fine except for limited functions.Last week I brought the new b@#*an windhoff MPV with 21pin dcc ready. As the guy at the model shop didnt stock the hornby 21pin decoder I fitted a b@*%an decoder the unit works fine in the shop but it wont work with my select unit. My question is is this because these more complex decoders wont work with the select or is it the b@#*an system? Will the sapphire decoder work with the select? I thought maybe the select wont work with the back emf decoders.Thanks Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The select should be able to control any nmra dcc decoder including the 8245 and 8249. hornby and many other manufacturers produce nmra certified decoders.there has been some discussion that the select waveforms are marginal but I have not heard of any practical problems.can you give some more details of what "doesn't work" means. what is the decoder address? what happens when you try and drive the loco? does it move at all when you programme it.....A limitation of the select is that it can only programme a small number of CVs. this means that more exotic capabilities of advanced decoders will not be accessible to the select. this should not stop basic operation.sound decoders and the select don't really exist in the same world. the sound decoder is a sophisticated unit with many functions and controls. The select is a budget controller designed to have very limited capabilities. I suggest that you consider upgrading to the elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 my answer to this post has been held as I mentioned another manufacturer. a bit tough that even mentioning another brand blocks the post:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Post a new reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 You have to fudge the spelling of those other words or the autobot pick up on them and cans your post its programed to pick them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 HiThere is no reason for the other makers 21 pin decoder not to work with the Hornby Select!The problem is likely to be one of several possibilities.....1) You haven't chosen the correct address number for the loco.2) The locos decoder has had a four digit address number assigned to it (The Select can only use two digit addresses and then only in the 1 to 59 number range).3) The loco is defective.4) The decoder is defective.5) The decoder has come out of, or is loose in, its 21 pin socket.You need to try it on freshly cleaned rail tops and initially at address 03 (unless you specified another address number when you obtained the loco? See item 2)Place the loco on the freshly cleaned track after removing all other locos or use a totally separate and isolated from the rest of the railway track which again is freshly cleaned. Then try to set the locos address to 03. Placing a light downward finger pressure on the loco to make it sit better on the track while programming would also help too.If it accepts the new 03 address, test it on 03 on the layout then reprogram it to whatever address you wish between 1 and 59 (avoiding 03 if possible).If it wont reprogram, you'll need to return it to the supplier. Or find a friend/local model shop/local model railway club and see if they can reset the decoder on a more upmarket DCC system using CV8 and entering the value of 8. That would completely reset the decoder to its default settings and address number of 03. This unfortunately cannot be done with the Select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMU mad Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I just fitted a B***mann decoder to a new B***mann class 150 DMU and it works fine with my select controller. What i would suggest is:1. reprogramme the decoder by placing the train on the programming track and holding the SELECT button for 2 seconds until LA flashes. Then enter your chosen number that you want to call it and press SELECT again. The red LED light will flash up to 7 times, but if it flashes 8 times, i would reprogramme the train.or2. Clean the track thoroughly and the wheels. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 DMU mad said:I just fitted a B***mann decoder to a new B***mann class 150 DMU and it works fine with my select controller. What i would suggest is:1. reprogramme the decoder by placing the train on the programming track and holding the SELECT button for 2 seconds until LA flashes. Then enter your chosen number that you want to call it and press SELECT again. The red LED light will flash up to 7 times, but if it flashes 8 times, i would reprogramme the train.or2. Clean the track thoroughly and the wheels. Hope this helpsThanks I have been through all the usual things you all suggest as a matter of course. I have been reading the forum for years now so I did all those things first having read all the instructions as well.Done all the resets (controller and chip) what I wanted to know was if the bman 36-554 decoder which has back EMF is compatiable with the select controler which doesent seem to be NRMA compliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornby Customer Care Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The Hornby Sapphire has no issues with the Select unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 HiBecause this is the Hornby Forum its is very hard to give further advice.What you say about the Select and the NMRA is correct.The Select cannot reset a decoder to its defaults though. It can only carry out some basic preset Cv alterations which some user may not be aware that they are altering CVs anyway These are ability to set an address number between 1 to 59. Set the Acceleration and Declaration speed levels and alter the normal direction of travel.So putting a loco on the track thats got an address number higher than 59, the Select wont be able to operate it unless its address is changed to the Selects range of 1 to 59.I would expect nothing else than a Hornby decoder working with all Hornby DCC consoles. But the idea of DCC is to be 'Universal' and be able to operate Maker A decoder in Maker B loco and all controlled by Maker C console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomdon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Post a new reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks Flashbang.I thought someone might be able to tell me if the problem was with the select or the incompatibility of the different manufactures chips.If it is just the short comings of the select I might have to up grade my control system to the elite. But I do not need all the features of the sapphire decoder as the loco only has lights and no other functions and the basic Hornby decoder only has the 8pin connection. Also availability and cost is a factor down here at the bottom of the world (New Zealand) the basic Hornby decoder is $39 the Sapphire is $71 the other manufactures one is $45(21 pin 3 function). I could hard wire the basic chip but I do not want to tear up my new loco and void its warranty. after bringing it home I tested it on dc It ran great (ran it in as usual) I installed the decoder and found it would not respond on my select I did the usual checks etc and took it back to the model shop and it ran fine on the other manufacturers basic DCC controller. My problem is now do I up grade the decoder or my controller? Can any one please tell me if the sapphire will work with the select controller.A simple purchase of a model Hornby do not make has turned into a problem. many thanks Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I suggest you read the footnote on this Hornby page. https://www.hornby.com/hornby-dcc/controllers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58001 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is a known problem with a small number of the Windhoff MPVs. Some people on the RMWeb forum were having trouble with running the MPV using an Elite controller. It appears to be a problem with the circuitry on the train and not the DCC chip. You should contact the shop you bought it from or the manufacturer.I have to say mine works fine with the Elite but it was one of the later Railtrack models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks Guys it is B*&@man bra&*line Europe made in china. I assumed the English supplied one would be ok. It works fine at the shop on their test track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minoo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Hi Robi,why not take all your stuff to the shop and request them to check it out. They will resolve your problem.minoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonydccuk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 hi there should not be a prob with 21 pin chips and select but can i add the hornby elite 1.4 now has a new section for saphire and can opp 20 functions thacks tonyrobbi37 said:Hi I have been running a Hornby select DCC system for some time now using mostly Hornby R8249 decoders without any major problems. I have one hornby sound fitted diesel that works fine except for limited functions.Last week I brought the new b@#*an windhoff MPV with 21pin dcc ready. As the guy at the model shop didnt stock the hornby 21pin decoder I fitted a b@*%an decoder the unit works fine in the shop but it wont work with my select unit. My question is is this because these more complex decoders wont work with the select or is it the b@#*an system? Will the sapphire decoder work with the select? I thought maybe the select wont work with the back emf decoders.Thanks Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 poliss said:I suggest you read the footnote on this Hornby page. https://www.hornby.com/hornby-dcc/controllers/What is not stated is that the Select is not NMRA compliant!However, the issue we have here might be to do with the age of your Select. Have you had it for some time? It is possible to get an upgrade from Hornby which overcomes most of the problems mentioned in the footnote, but it requires that you return the Select to Hornby as it can't be done by Hornby dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themymysteryman101 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Post a new reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themymysteryman101 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I fitted a B******n Decoder this morning to my class 66, I had no problems apart from having my DC controller pluged in insted of DCC :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Gregd99 said:my answer to this post has been held as I mentioned another manufacturer. a bit tough that even mentioning another brand blocks the post:-(I really hate that kind of thing. As if anybody only has H+#$|y or B<#%¥]a@n in their collection. It certainly does not encourage product loyalty, the reverse in fact. Probably this reply will be deleted!Oh Such Is Life!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianH Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I've have 8 pin decoders of both manufacturers working fine with both selects and elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbi37 Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 UPDATEI finally got time to sort it.I got a new Elite unit(it came with 1.4 installed and an update to the manual included) and the bass@*&an decoder still did not work.I got a new Saphire decoder and when I installed that every thing worked great so obviously the bast@#man 21 pin decoders are not compatible. thank for all your suggestions and help.cheer Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 According to all info available, the decoder should be compatible. I'd suggest it is faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The previous threads show up Hornby's blinkered policy of restricting entries of 'other make' products in this forum. Isn't it time that Hornby, in running a this forum, acknowledge that the majority of model railway enthusiasts use other makes of model railway infrastructure. Hornby decoders can and are fitted to other makes! so why isn't discussion (not promotion) allowed?Wake up Hornby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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