Bachmann Voyager DCC on Analogue - Not Responding

[Souty Train Guy]

I purchased a bachmann Class 220 Voyager EMU, a couple of months ago, and when I bought it, it was supposedly analogue. However, after directional lights did not function in the correct direction on one of the end coaches, I took it apart and discovered a DCC chip in every coach.

It was working fine, and then I decided to take it to be DCC tested at the local club, as I do not have a DCC controller. It worked, however, when I ran it on analogue back at the layout, the train appears 'dead' - None of the DCC chips were working on analogue - Both end coaches and middle power car were not working.

The DCC decoders are Gaugemaster

Does anyone know a way a reseting the decoders without a DCC Controller?

Thanks

[jane1707819582]

if you have no intention of running dcc ,remove the decoders .

resetting the decoders without a controller is a very tricky procedure .

[2e0dtoeric]

Bu put blanks in, or it still won't work!

[Souty Train Guy]

Bu put blanks in, or it still won't work!

The issue is - it was not DCC ready. The previous owner had soldered in DCC decoders, so it will be a nightmare to remove!

[Chrissaf]

Take it back to the club and ask them to use their DCC controllers to check the value of CV29 in the decoders. If the value is NOT 6 then ask the club members to change the value to 6.

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It may be that the previous owner disabled DC Operation (Running) in CV29. A value of 6 should make the decoders compatible with DC Analogue control.

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Alternatively, a full reset of the decoder can be performed by writing value 8 to CV8. This should (in most decoders) return CV29 to value 6 as well. There is no realistic way to reset the decoder without a DCC controller or DCC Programmer. The club you went to before, should be able to do this for you instead.

[96RAF]

Take a 9v battery with you and when they say they have enabled DC running put the battery across the wheels to prove it (or not).

[Souty Train Guy]

Thanks. I will try that.

Just discovered my Class 150 (supposedly analogue) has a DCC decoder fitted, so will probably go to test that anyway (If I can figure out how to get the fiddly coupling apart).

[Chrissaf]

STG,

The 'Glitch' as you put it, is you repeatedly clicking the 'Reply' button when you don't get an instant response from the forum. Each time you click the 'Reply' button the request gets queued in the forum system and then as many replies as the number of times you click the button get published. This forum software is prone to not responding instantly. When you observe that the page has appeared to lock up and stalled. Just open a new browser tab or Window and navigate back to your forum page. Nine times out of ten, you will find your posted reply waiting there to be viewed.

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PS - I removed all the duplicates you posted, just leaving the original behind.

[Souty Train Guy]

Also, a good thing to note is that because the decoders are soldered in, it puts the price up of the train more than the price of the individual decoders, so it would never be ideal to remove them.

[Phil_Spiegel.]

Just a quick reminder that NOT ALL decoders will 'reset' with CV8=8 !!!

This has been diven in to me this last week while I have been catching up on fitting TTS decoders into several of my long-tanding locos  (Some once ran on Zero-1)  Over the years I have used a great many different decoders .... and although I log them against each model, sometimes that is insufficient info. 

A Bachmann decoder I extracted today used CV8=5 to reset,   Lenz Maccoder LE1000 and 1024 decoders needed CV8=32 .... many other decoders also support partial resetting   and others have 'lock' functions.

Whilst on the subject of TTS fiting HST's - it looks as if the Valenta is appropriate for the single-roof-fan bodyshell, and the MTU for the twin fan ... I don't suppose such a change was carried out at any other time???

(Just the smoke hood over the fans to minimise the smoke blackening the cab windscreen)

On the subject of the original  00 Voyagers - when standing or running on digital systems, both directions will light at the same time - so conversion is necessary otherwise a molten lamp assembly will result .... it is best changed to LEDs when converting too.  Nowadays I would recommend buying pre-wired SMD LEDs in red and white to replace manufcturers bulb lighting.

[Souty Train Guy]

Just a quick reminder that NOT ALL decoders will 'reset' with CV8=8 !!!

This has been diven in to me this last week while I have been catching up on fitting TTS decoders into several of my long-tanding locos  (Some once ran on Zero-1)  Over the years I have used a great many different decoders .... and although I log them against each model, sometimes that is insufficient info. 

A Bachmann decoder I extracted today used CV8=5 to reset,   Lenz Maccoder LE1000 and 1024 decoders needed CV8=32 .... many other decoders also support partial resetting   and others have 'lock' functions.

Whilst on the subject of TTS fiting HST's - it looks as if the Valenta is appropriate for the single-roof-fan bodyshell, and the MTU for the twin fan ... I don't suppose such a change was carried out at any other time???

(Just the smoke hood over the fans to minimise the smoke blackening the cab windscreen)

On the subject of the original  00 Voyagers - when standing or running on digital systems, both directions will light at the same time - so conversion is necessary otherwise a molten lamp assembly will result .... it is best changed to LEDs when converting too.  Nowadays I would recommend buying pre-wired SMD LEDs in red and white to replace manufcturers bulb lighting.

When I got the Class 220 second-hand, it was DCC fitted, and when I tested it there was no problem with the lights.

Does anyone know how to set a decoder to analogue mode so it will work on my controller?

[Souty Train Guy]

/media/tinymce_upload/7e643e38b6643f6fff74e4837844d8d0.JPG

The power car modification for DCC is shown above

[Chrissaf]

Does anyone know how to set a decoder to analogue mode so it will work on my controller?

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I was under the impression that was what was being discussed all through Page 1 of this thread......i.e writing value 6 to CV29 via the use of a Club DCC Controller or one borrowed from someone who runs DCC.

[Souty Train Guy]

Does anyone know how to set a decoder to analogue mode so it will work on my controller?

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I was under the impression that was what was being discussed all through Page 1 of this thread......i.e writing value 6 to CV29 via the use of a Club DCC Controller or one borrowed from someone who runs DCC.

Ok. Thanks. (Sorry, Think I just midread what I posted)

I was just checking (I am not the best at DCC)

[Souty Train Guy]

Would the process also work on the DCC Select Controller? - I have a friend who has one...

[Chrissaf]

Your friend's Select is almost certainly to currently have a firmware version that is no higher than version 1.5. In order to change CV29 the Select needs firmware version 1.6. The firmware version is shown as the very first number that is displayed on the Select LCD display during the 'power on' cycle. Three numbers are displayed sequentially, XX followed by 30 followed by 03, where XX is the firmware version. Note: 11 is firmware 1.1 through to 15 which is firmware 1.5

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At the time of writing this post, version 1.6 has not been widely publicised as being available. But that said, a forum member posted last week that his Select had been returned to him from Hornby with version 1.6 firmware installed.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/select-16-is-here/?p=1

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Your friend could potentially benefit from having his Select upgraded to version 1.6. So why not offer to pay to have that done for him, then you will be able to get him to configure CV29 in return. Potentially a 'win win' situation for both of you. To arrange for the firmware to be upgraded (a return to Hornby process requirement) contact Hornby Customer Care (HCC) to discuss. Contact number is listed on the 'Contact Us' page linked at the very bottom of this page.

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Select Version 1.6 new features:

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• Ability to write to CVs 1 to 255
• Enhanced short circuit protection.
• Ability to interface to RailMaster software via a new 'Select a Link' cable scheduled for release in September.

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[jane1707819582]

looking at the photo you supplied it would take 2 minutes to remove the decoder 

[Souty Train Guy]

looking at the photo you supplied it would take 2 minutes to remove the decoder 

It may do in that coach, but in the two end coaches, the decoder is stored in a location hard to access, and also the train is worth more money with the decoders in (as it has been converted already).

Also, I would prefer to leave the decoders in just in case I decide to change to DCC at a later date...

So anyway without removing the decoders is probably the most realistic option

[Chrissaf]

Souty Train Guy.

Some testing has been done with a decoder on a test rig. And it does indeed seem to be an undocumented feature that DCC decoders will interpret a DC Analogue input not only to control the motor, but provide some basic 'Directional Lighting' control based upon input DC polarity. I was not expecting this at all.

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Since my earlier post has been proven to be incorrect, I have removed it and our follow-up dialogue in order to prevent follow on readers from being sent up the wrong garden path. There is nothing in the specs I have read that gives any indication of this feature, and to be honest it is not something I have previously tested for.

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My apologies for potentailly leading you up the garden path as well as me. The usual metaphors apply.....learn something new every day and never assume.

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[walkingthedog]

Chris are you saying that directional lighting on a DCC fitted loco will work OK on DC?

[Chrissaf]

That's what the tests showed (tests actually performed by Rob on my behalf).

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• Hornby R8249 decoder in an ESU test rig.
• Write 8 to CV8 to reset it first, to ensure that CV29 DC Operation was enabled.
• Operated it under DCC control on default DCC Address 003.
• Sent F0 to turn lights on to confirm working under DCC, then sent F0 again to turn lights off again.
• Powered down decoder on test rig and replaced ESU test rig DCC Controller input with a DC 9 volt battery source.
• Directional lights responded to the applied battery polarity.

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Like me, this was also not what Rob expected to see happen. Rob was as surprised as me.

[96RAF]

Pictures of what Chris described...

Track IN leds show DC polarity.

Leds FL and RL are forward and reverse light indicators.

Led FL is lit with 9vDC connected and R8249 in the test rig...

/media/tinymce_upload/86b7d782e0e30b30a9708b4cb0b8b3ba.JPG

 

And led FR is lit when 9vDC is reversed...

/media/tinymce_upload/63b05a2cad8eac4d68fec97ad4688e6a.JPG

 

[96RAF]

FR above should read RL but I can’t edit it on the iPad as it has scolled off page.

[walkingthedog]

I have DCC fitted diesels with working directional lights on my DC layout. I thought that was normal.

[Chrissaf]

So that would appear to be......