Elite point numbering.

[Ducky1]

I have 4 points wired up to a Hornby Accessory Decoder and addressed 61,62, 63 and 64 which work perfectly. I recently added a working light and a Train Tech decoder and programmed it with address 250. On activating the light I found that point 062 was also activated. I changed the address of the light to 150 and all was ok. Further research showed that if I entered address 249 form the Elite then point 061 was activated, 250 and point 062, 251 and point 063, 252 and point 064. I was wondering if this is supposed to happen or is it a problem with my Elite. Can anybody replicate the effect or prove that their Elite does not do this.

 

Thanks Ducky1

[96RAF]

It could be that there is confusion between group and port addressing...see here extracted from the R8247 Point and Accessory Decoder user manual. Elite and Select will automatically convert one to the other for you.

 

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[St1ngr4y]

There are two operating modes for the Elite - Standard and Classic. If you are using Classic, try changing the mode to Standard to see if it makes a difference.

 

Ray

[Ducky1]

I am using Standard Mode as I am also running RailMaster.

 

I changed to Classic Mode and the problem is still there. Changed back to Standard Mode and the problem is there.

 

I say problem but it is not really a problem as I will just avoid those Accessory numbers.

 

Duicky1

[St1ngr4y]

If you operate through Railmaster, rather than use the Elite's own controls, do you still have the same problem?

 

Ray

[Ducky1]

Yes. The problem occures through Railmaster and just with the Elite. I thought it was a Railmaster problem at first and reported to them but after further investigation I found that it must be an Elite problem.

 

Ducky1

[St1ngr4y]

@Ducky1

 

I just connected my DCC monitor to the track output of my Elite, then sent messages to accessory address 250, and I only saw packets for address 250.

 

What if the fault is not with the Elite, but with the accessory decoder? It could be reacting to address 250 when it shouldn't. By the way RAF96 and I have assumed it is a R8247 decoder - is that correct?

 

Ray

[Chrissaf]

You say the R8247 addresses are 61 to 64.

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This infers that maybe they were originally configured and set using a Select controller. And that you then just transferred this already set up decoder to the Elite at a later date.

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If this is so, then I have seen reports on the forum where previously Select configured decoders start doing strange things when used with other non Select controllers.

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I suggest you use the Elite in standalone mode i.e use the Elite knobs and buttons to perform these following tasks....and not try to do them through the RailMaster interface.

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To see if you are affected by this. Try using the Elite to factory reset the R8247. Temporarily wire the R8247 directly to the Elite 'Prog A&B' output and write value 8 to CV8.

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Then to prove that the decoder has been reset. Reconnect it to the Elite 'Track A&B' output and test its operation using the factory default addresses 1 to 4 and also test to see if it is still affected by using any of the other accessory addresses you use on the layout.

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Then you can either continue using the default 1 to 4 addresses and change the configurations set in your RailMaster track plan to suit. Or reconnect the R8247 back onto the 'Prog A&B' to reinstate the previously used addresses. Then test afterwards again when back on the 'Track A&B' output to see if this unusual issue is still observed.

[96RAF]

Good point about the reset Chris.

I have seen odd behaviour from R8247 PAD after fiddling with it, which resolved itself after a reset.

It will then read OK in RM as well as direct from the Elite, proving any pulse or continuous settings.

[Ducky1]

Just managed to get some time to try a few suggestions.

 

The decoder is a R8216. I have had it for years. Cannot remember if i programmed it from the Select or the Elite.

 

From the programming instructions in the Elite manual and from this Forum i do not seem to have the option of writing to CV8.

 

I have reprogrammed the decoder to ports 1-4 and they activated from 1-4 but also from 249-252.

 

Ducky1

[St1ngr4y]

That's why I asked whether it was a R8247 or not. Over to @Chrissaf or @RAF96, who may know why you have a problem with your R8216.

 

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Ducky, Chris told you exactly how to reset your decoder - connect to programming track and write 8 to CV8, just as if it is a loco decoder. Suggest you try that. Setting addresses to 1-4 is not the same.

 

Let us know the outcome. 

[Chrissaf]

Unfortunately (after more research), the older R8216 does not support "Direct Mode" programming (unlike the later R8247). It has to be programmed using 'REG' (Register Mode). This means that it does not not have direct access to numbered CVs in any of the Elite 'REG' menu options. I have looked through them all on my own Elite controller......and this has been somewhat confirmed through my online research performed just prior to making this post.

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So in summary Ducky is correct, there is no obvious way I can see for writing directly to CVs and/or CV8 in particular (assuming that CV8 even exists in this obsolete R8216 product - DCC Wiki states that CV support is very limited in products that use 'REG Mode' programming as the main configuration method).

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I have tried, but been unsuccessful to track down a R8216 user guide online. The R8216 user guide may have given me a clue as to what 'Register' (if any - out of the 8 registers available) would have given the ability to perform a 'Factory Reset'.

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MUCH LATER EDIT:

After further research and reading the NMRA Standard (extract below):

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/media/tinymce_upload/0adce5c2d1db89465a22c3f7d93e5646.jpg

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The Hornby user guide state that CV520 is equivalent to CV8 on the R8247, I have no reason to believe that the same NMRA standard (extract above) does not also apply to the R8216. Therefore all indications are that 'Register 8' is the equivalent of CV8.

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Therefore, writing a value of 8 to Register 8 should in theory perform a factory reset of the R8216 accessory decoder. The theory needs to be tested. How to perform this writing task is documented below:

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Disconnect the R8216 from the Elite 'Track A&B' terminals. Leave the R8216 physically connected to the points it serves. Wire the R8216 directly to the Elite 'Prog A&B' terminals using a temporary pair of wires.

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1. Press the MENU button on the Elite.
2. Rotate 'Left Controller Knob 1' (hereafter referred to as C1) until 'ACC' shows in the display.
3. Press C1 - "DIRECT" should show on the display.
4. Rotate C1 until "REG" shows on the display
5. Press C1 - "ADDRESS" should show on the display.
6. Rotate C1 until "REG" shows on the display.
7. Press C1 - "WRITE" should show on the display.
8. Press C1 - "REG 01" should show on the display.
9. Rotate C1 until "REG 08" shows on the display.
10. Press C1 - "W 000" should show on the display.
11. Rotate C1 until "W 008" shows on the display.
12. Press C1 - the red LED should flash indicating that the writing task has started.

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Use these instructions at your risk, as I do not have a R8216 to try them out on first.

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[96RAF]

I have the Train PC on so I will go out and dig i to my files to see what I can find About the R8216 setup and limitations. All I can remeber at present is it can only pulse, not put out a continous voltage.

[96RAF]

I have the Train PC on so I will go out and dig into my files to see what I can find About the R8216 setup and limitations. All I can remember at present is it can only pulse, not put out a continous voltage.

 

Not much in the files that Chris has not already covered.

R8216 needs to be pre-charged before programming as the normal programming current is too low to allow instant programming.

It does not support all modes programming as stated.

It only outputs a fixed length pulse as stated.

There were some R8247s wrongly labelled as R8216. the date code on the unit confirms if it is an R8247 or not.- annoyingly I cannot locate that date code anywhere.

If a user has previously programmed his point system with a SELECT v1.0 and then upgraded to the ELITE, he will find that all his points seems to be “3 behind” in their expected addresses. Reprogramming the PAD/PD system from the ELITE will correct this.

[Ducky1]

Thanks for all your interest.

 

I can confirm that trying to write 8 to CV8 on the R8216 does not change anything.

 

My R8216 is definitely correct as it has a date 05/07 on the back.

 

I have reprogrammed the address of the R8216 with both the Elite and my Select(1.6) and still get the same results.

 

I am just going to avoid Accessory numbers 249-252.

 

Ducky1

[Chrissaf]

Ducky,

See my "Much Later Edit" to my last reply. This edit was completed after the timestamp of your last post above.

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However, even after a successful reset, your issue may possibly still be present if it is a fundamental flaw in the R8216 firmware. In which case (as you say) just avoid 249-252.

[Ducky1]

Hi Chrissaf

Tried your edited suggestion. Sorry it did not work. Thanks for trying.

 

Ducky1

[Chrissaf]

Sounds like an inherent firmware fault then.

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It was still a useful cerebral exercise on my part to undertake, as someone in the future might ask the question "How do I factory reset a R8216?"

[Ducky1]

I also contacted Hornby support with the question:-

 

I have a Hornby R8216 point decoder that is addressed 61-64 and works ok. Recently I programmed a separate decoder to address 250 and found it also operated the point on address 62. Further investigation showed that the R8216 responded to addresses 249-252 as well as 61-64. Is this normal or is something wrong with the R8216. Can I Factory reset the R8216?

 

Their answer was:-

 

Quote:- Thank you for your email, yes this is normal, to reset the decoder, it is 8 to the value of 8

 

I asume that as there is verry little to reset is why I did not notice anything as I assume it just sets the addresses back to 1-4.

 

Ducky

[Chrissaf]

Further investigation showed that the R8216 responded to addresses 249-252 as well as 61-64. Is this normal?

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followed by from Hornby:

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Thank you for your email, yes this is normal

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I think it is fairly obvious that this is something that in an ideal world shouldn't happen. Hornby's response indicates that it is something that they are aware of. It almost certainly is a bug in your R8216 firmware. But given that the product is obsolete and has been so for some considerable time, then there is absolutely no incentive for Hornby to instigate a firmware fix at some considerable cost to them for a product issue that:

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1. Probably only affects a very small number of users.
2. For which there is a 'work-around' i.e don't use the high number addresses.

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After all, it may be that R8216 firmware has been updated during the product life-cycle to correct this isuue and you are just very unlucky to be using one from an affected early production run batch.......we will probably never know.

 

[96RAF]

The way to check if the reset has worked is to address the unit away from default, then reset it and see if it returns to default addresses.

[96RAF]

Further to all of the above I can confirm the following relative to R8216.

 

1. The wrongly labelled R8247s as R8216s were date code 50/07 not to be confused with 05/07 which is a real R8216. The batch code on the box is R8247-50-634 but the unit within is an R8247 wrongly labelled as an R8216.

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2. You can only program an R8216 in Reg mode.

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3. There is no read back of any settings from an R8216.

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4. Pulse is the only output from an R8216 and this is fixed at 100ms.

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5. Due to a firmware fault  and regardless of any other address programmed an R8216 will always broadcast to address group 63 i.e. port addresses 249-252 as well, so it not just a case of avoiding these addresses, if you need to use them then it would be wise to allocate your R8216 to them only. If you have more than one R8216 then its back to square one - steer clear of group 63.

 

Note: This fault will obviously not be fixed as the unit is obsolete.