Southern Electric

[LCDR]

Not doing quite so bad now with the Brighton Belle, but we do need some ordinary stock to run alongside it. How about a LSWR/SR 3Sub?

[6100]

LC&DR, I couldnt agree more.

[meggsie]

I agree both Bachmann & Hornby appear to be favouring the BR era Southern Electrics but how about some proper SR EMUs like the 4 Cors built in the late 1930s and which lasted into the 1970s so plenty of livery scope. There are at least two prototype sets

in preservation, one in the NRM, with opportunities to make sub types of 4 Res & 4 Buf. I believe these could also be run in multiple with the 5 Bel (Brighton Belle) units.

[Ozexpatriate]

A SR 3Bub in Maunsell Olive would be great. It might even tempt me to think about the third rail.

[Fazy]

you know i dont model the southern but i do like the DD EMU what do you think of them?

[LCDR]

I saw the 4DD (Double Decker) every day of my childhood, and travelled on it many times. I liked the sensation when sitting on the top deck of whizzing under bridges very close, in the confidence that you were not going to actually bump into them. It passed

my house four times every day, and it always made a different noise to all the others.

It wasn't popular with everybody though and had a nasty reputation for females travelling alone at quiet times. There were a number of very unpleasant attacks. Added

to that there were no step boards and you could fall between the train and the platform much more easily that with other trains. It was a Slade Green unit for its entire existence, and two carriages do survive, one at Sellinge in Kent and the other at Hunsbury

Hill in Northamptonshire.

fazy said:

you know i dont model the southern but i do like the DD EMU what do you think of them?

[the ferret]

Ozexpatriate said:

A SR 3Bub in Maunsell Olive would be great. It might even tempt me to think about the third rail.

Where will you stop? 3-SUB, two augmentation cars, 2-NOL, 2-BIL, 4-LAV, 2-HAL? I liked the 2-NOLs on the Windsor/Weybridge

that divided at Staines, and the 2-BILs on the Reading/Guildford via Aldershot trains that divided at Ascot.

I am kit and scratch-building both.

[the ferret]

Where will you stop? 3-SUB, two augmentation cars, 2-NOL, 2-BIL, 4-LAV, 2-HAL? I liked the 2-NOLs on the Windsor/Weybridge that divided at Staines, and the 2-BILs on the Reading/Guildford via Aldershot trains that divided at Ascot.

I am kit and

scratch-building both.

A Hopeful Ferret

[LCDR]

The 3Sub units were ubiquitous, Gillingham to Portsmouth, wheras the other sets mentioned were very much restricted to (Coastway) routes, the 2Bil never worked on the Eastern section (they were originally too wide), the 4Lav were restricted mainly to the

London to Brighton route, and the 2Hal were introduced for the Gillingham and Maidstone services. The 4Cor types were for the Portsmouth and Bognor services, and rarely strayed from them.

The 3Subs really did go everywhere.

[Private_Siding]

Hello LC&DR I Hope all is well.
With the current trend finally turning to the BR southern region EMU’s with Bachmann’s 4-cep, 2-epb, forthcoming MLV, and Hornby’s 4vep and 5-bel, some might think that would be enough. There is still a lack of SR
Emu’s on the market, I agree, but with the introduction of maybe two ‘pre-BR’ Emu’s what are the possibility creating the most sub classes? It is often forgotten that formations such as the 6-pan, 6-cit and 6-pul (former 6-cor) were made up of ‘bits of other
units’ or indeed went on to make up parts of later units. I would love to see some pre WWII Emu’s from Hornby, the long life of some of these units will give them a varied livery scope, and span several decades. My choice would be a 4-cor (class 404) and a
3/4-sub just because I like the look of them. There’s a driving carriage of both at the NRM, along way from where they should be.
Now I know I’m getting old, and my memory is not what it was, but I remember seeing what I thought was two buffet cars running
together in a formation but later found out it was a standard compartment stock from the 4-epb but only used during rush hour. It was referred to as a 4-com for commuter use only. I can’t find any details on this, but someone remembers the same thing but on
the Liverpool street GEML (overhead pantograph EMU) during the BR blue/grey days, but knows as little as I do. There are similarities between certain types of emu stock - class 305 and class 504 - but did trailer cars ever get swapped like this during the
80’s ?

[Private_Siding]

Hello LC&DR I Hope all is well,
With the current trend finally turning to the BR southern region EMU’s with Bachmann’s 4cep, 2epb, forthcoming MLV, and Hornby’s 4vep and 5bel, some might think that would be enough. There is still a lack of SR Emu’s
on the market, I agree, but with the introduction of maybe two ‘pre-BR’ Emu’s what are the possibility creating the most sub classes? It is often forgotten that formations such as the 6pan, 6cit and 6pul (former 6cor) were made up of ‘bits of other units’
or indeed went on to make up parts of later units. I would love to see some pre WWII Emu’s from Hornby, the long life of some of these units will give them a varied livery scope, and span several decades. My choice would be a 4-cor (class 404) and a 3/4-sub
just because I like the look of them. There’s a driving carriage of both at the NRM, along way from where they should be.
Now I know I’m getting old, and my memory is not what it was, but I remember seeing what I thought was two buffet cars running together
in a formation but later found out it was a standard compartment stock from the epb but only used during rush hour. It was referred to as a 4-com for commuter use only. I can’t find any details on this, but someone remembers the same thing but on the Liverpool
street GEML (overhead pantograph EMU) during the BR blue/grey days, but knows as little as I do. There are similarities between certain types of emu stock - class 305 and class 504 - but did trailer cars ever get swapped like this during the 80’s ?

[LCDR]

All is well thank you!

The 4COM has a gory history. The original 4EPB stock (and the 4Sub before them) were composed of a mixture of open saloon and compartment carriages. Generally the driving cars were open saloons, and although they had seperate

doors to each seating bay the seats were divided so you could walk the length of the carriage. One of the trailer cars originally was like this too, but to sort out the smoking accomodation the other trailer was made up of ten seperate compartments. As the

units were refurbished the compartments were opened up into saloons, but when the scheme was stopped in the late 1980s a few sets still had compartment trailers. A number of attacks occured in these compartments, and after a few rather horrible murders BR

decided to move the few remaining compartment carriages into a limited number of units and put their saloons into others. This way all the compartment stock was kept segregated. To identify these few remaining compartment carriages a red band (usually employed

on catering cars elsewhere) was painted above the windows and the units classified 4COM were restricted to rush hour trains only.

The 4 DD double decker sets had a similar horrific reputation which was one of a number of reasons why these were not replicated

in 1950.

I did not travel on the Great Eastern, but I would guess that Network South east will have adopted the policy throughout.

Some 2EPBs which retained compartments were similarly branded for their final years.

[Maunsell Green]

Whilst thinking about units, how about some "Oxted thumpers" in dark green please Hornby. Will go nice in East Grinstead low-level station, whilst an M7 pulls out overhead from the high level.

[6100]

Hi Maunsell Green, thumpers are being made by another company for Kernow models. No point in Hornby duplicating them.

[LCDR]

In fairness to Maunsell Green the Oxted sets were different to the one promised elsewhere. The seating arrangement was very different and the cabs had a more rounded profile similar to the 4Cig stock. I doubt however that any manufacturer will nmake one

unless some rich modeller decides to commission some.

[6100]

LC&DR, very true, Are you offering! Ducks for cover! I have had an email to say Brighton Belle has been delayed until next year.

[LCDR]

No, Sorry, I have already got a DC kits 2H to make!

[mortehoe]

LC&DR said:

The 3Sub units were ubiquitous, Gillingham to Portsmouth, wheras the other sets mentioned were very much restricted to (Coastway) routes, the 2Bil never worked on the Eastern section (they were originally too wide), the 4Lav were

restricted mainly to the London to Brighton route, and the 2Hal were introduced for the Gillingham and Maidstone services. The 4Cor types were for the Portsmouth and Bognor services, and rarely strayed from them.

The 3Subs really did go everywhere.

[mortehoe]

LC&DR, your post reminds me, never say never. When built the COR's were Portsmouth yes, but they turned up on the Chessington branch, in the 60's as did the BIL's and HAL's, and in their final Blue years they were Windsor and Reading services. How I used

to love the way the front corridor connection would sway, as they crept up on a slower moving train, HAPPY DAYS.

[mortehoe]

Like a few others I would accept any Southern built electric unit, I have my favorites the 4-COR
and the 4-LAV, but if Hornby were to go slightly mad and release say a 2-SL or a 2-WIM, I would still purchase them. Since my layout which is in the planning

stage, is 1930's Art-Deco stations, Southern, with LMS running powers, and third rail, I have an excuse to run almost anything.

[LCDR]

The 4Cor and 2Bil sets also finished their days on the Coastway services between Brighton and Portsmouth. Anything on a 62 foot SR electric underframe would do for me.

[Postman Prat]

He's easily pleased!!

[mortehoe]

I'm with LC&DR on that one. The latest I'd settle for, is the Bullied EPB or HAP anything after that is not my bag.

[LCDR]

All this talk has encouraged me to unearth my 'Branchlines / Kirk' kit of a 2Hal based around a 2Bil kit with etched overlays. When my 35030 in blue comes out of the paint shop I may well start this one.

[Postman Prat]

I was hoping you were going to do 35031 Grey Funnel!!