Power Track + Droppers

[ConfusedRobotCat]

So... I have a silly question that really shows my lack of knowledge when it comes to model railways...

Bit of background: I have a basic loop pulled out of a beginner trainset but with a few points installed, and my locomotives always lose power going over the points. I want to perform slow shunting operations, so this is quite a problem.

I've asked around, and people have recomended I install droppers to boost the power near the points. 

As it's an out-of-the-box trainset, there's a powertrack (R8206) and a basic analogue controller (R8250) with a DC-out wire already attached and nowhere to plug in a new one.

Is it possible to connect droppers whilst relying on the powertrack + standard controller, or am I going to have to shell out on a new controller (and replacement straight)?

Are there any alternatives to using droppers for this problem?

 

[jane1707819582]

The problem lies with your points they are insulfrog a trackpin in the centre may overcome this . are your loco's 0-6-0 , these can rock on the wheels as they pass over the points. My suggestion is ,if your layout is a shunting project .then now use time to convert to electrofrog points .

[morairamike]

In reply to your original question.

If using droppers you don't need the power track. Connect the power lead to a pair of wires which you run under the board the track is mounted on. These wires can by 1.5 mm flat and twin mains wires. Then you solder droppers of 7/0.2 wires to each piece of the track one on each rail. These you pass through holes under the track through the board and solder to the two 1.5mm wires underneath. This way every piece of track is connected to the controller without relying on the fish plate rail joiners.

As pointed out,s  wheel base locos on insulated frog Hornby points at slow speed are problematic. 

[Jimbo1707820979]

If you have more than one loco, try running them in consist (connected) and this may help when crossing the points.

[Chrissaf]

The problem with using a BUS and dropper power distribution system on a DC Analogue layout, is that you would need to start adding electrical isolation switches in certain areas of the layout. Say on sidings for example. Hornby points act as switches to connect power into the route that they are switched to. So if you put droppers on each side of the point, you lose the ability to electrically isolate sections of track using the inbuilt point switching function. Hence the need for electrical on/off switches in certain dropper feeds.

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This all starts to get quite complicated.

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The issue fundamentally is that Hornby points just aren't the best for slow running. Particularly when using 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 locos that are typically used for shunting. These locos just do not have enough wheel pickups on them. Conversion to PECO SL 'Electrofrog' points could help, but such a conversion throws up its own issues.

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Firstly, although you can use PECO Electrofrog points 'as is' out of the box (insulated rail joiners needed on the frog rails). To get the full benefit of 'Electrofrog' points it would be best to use 'switched frog polarity'. This means that you would then have to use point motors with integrated switch contacts in them. More complications in the track wiring then needs to be considered for DC Analogue working. You can't use an electronic polarity reverser, because these only work on DCC Digital and not DC Analogue.

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Secondly, the PECO SL 'Electrofrog' points do not use the same geometry as Hornby, they provide 50mm track spacing whereas Hornby track spacing is 67mm. PECO ST points that do have the same geometry as Hornby and are direct 'one for one' replacements do not come in an 'Electrofrog' version. They are all 'Insulfrog', the same as Hornby.

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I've asked around, and people have recommended I install droppers to boost the power near the points.

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Frankly, a rubbish suggestion from the blind leading the blind brigade. All that would do is compensate for loose or dirty track joiners located in the track route between the point and the controller power clip. It would have no effect on an issue which is with the point itself that is in essence poor Hornby point design when running small short locos at low speed across them [short locos in as much that the wheel pickups are not spread far enough apart to bridge effectively across the insulated frog area]. An additional track pin in the centre of the Hornby point is likely to have a more beneficial effect, a solution regularly suggested in many posts on this forum.

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The purpose of the additional track pin being to force the centre of the point down flat against the baseboard, such that the one remaining wheel with a live powered pickup is less likely to be lifted off the track rails, whilst the other wheel pickup is still on the insulated frog area and effectively a dead wheel electrically.

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[walkingthedog]

I have electrofrog points on my layout and all locos cross them without a problem, so they would be an advantage. No complicated wiring at all. Just insulated rail joiners on each rail on the frog V. No switches or point motors. 

[Buz]

Hi ConfusedRobotCat

The main thing you need is to have a power feed at the facing end of the points this is the end that when you look at the points you can see the toes of the blades.

This can be done with a power feed track or by having track dropper wires as used in more advanced layouts.

The thing that you must make sure of is that all of the wires for one rail are connected together and all the wires for the other rail are connected together to form a complete electrical connection with no short.

I am a fan of setting up a main track cct that forms a ring main with even spaced feeders to the track to make sure you can have feeds where you need them.

I do not pin points at all in fact if you need to force the point flat then the point or the base it is sitting on have problems that needs to be fixed.

I have only ever had point pick up problems with one locomotive and that is the Triang Hornby old Dock Shunter which has a very short wheel base knurled wheels and is known for pick up problems

I have a Hornby sentinel another SWB loco and this much to my surprise does not have point pick problems.

The other thing often overlooked is are all the track joints clean inside and properly connecting with no loose joints something that should be made sure of when the track is laid on a permanent layout.

regards John