paul_redding Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Now that Bachmann have produce the lovely H1 and H2 Atlantics, does anyone / Hornby know if they can do a new run of the 12-wheel Pullmans o make up the Southern Belle set? The cars are there as featured in the Bournemouth Belle now long gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancing Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 So far as I am aware (and the regulars on this forum will correct me if I'm wrong) Hornby has produced only 9 versions of the 12-wheeled Pullman. These are R4384 Kitchen 1st Monaco, R4385 Parlour 3rd Car 98 (ex-Milan), R4419 Parlour 3rd Car 294 (ex-Cadiz), R4420 Kitchen 1st Neptune, R4475 Parlour 3rd Car 97 (ex-Calais), R4476 Kitchen 1st Portia, R4477 Parlour Brake 3rd Car 95 (ex-Arcadia), plus the 3 cars in the Bournemouth Belle coach pack R4381, which were Parlour 1st Sunbeam, Kitchen 3rd Car 45 and, again, Parlour Brake 3rd Car 95 as noted above. These are lovely models and I would be very surprised if Hornby did not release more in the future. However, modelling early Pullmans is problematic for manufacturers, as the original cars tended to be re-built often several times and in slightly different form over the years, so they are not always strictly accurate in their details. Nevertheless, lovely models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Hi, Hornby made a train Pack R2819, Bournemouth Belle, that also had 3 x 12 wheel Pullmans in.In total I make it that 13 have been made.That is according to the Ramsey guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 The nice thing about the 12 wheel Pullman cars was they were to be found on the Southern (LB&SCR) and London and North Eastern Railways being hauled by almost identical classes of Atlantics, classes H1 / H2 on the Brighton, and C1 / C2 on the LNER. The LB&SCR and Southern also used the large tank engines (I, J and L classes) on the "Southern Belle", which ran until 1933 when it was replaced by the electric train which became the "Brighton Belle". The 'Southern Belle" from 1908 and the 'Harrogate Pullman' from 1923 both included 12 wheel cars, and before 1929 the cream panel extended to the cant rail, with a white roof above, After 1929 the more familiar Umber/Cream/Umber scheme was used. The 'Harrogate Pullman' finished when World War 2 broke out and when it all resumed under BR it was all very different. 12 wheel cars also operated on the Caledonian Railway, the Great Eastern Railway and the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, and from 1947 became the mainstay of the "Bornemouth Belle". The LNER and LMSR purchased some of the cars and repainted them in new liveries. The LNER used them as departmental vehicles consigned to dormatories for staff, painted grey they were decidedly dowdy. The LMSR used them as saloons painted in crimson lake, most were withdrawn by 1937. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 There are always a number on ebay - not cheap. I can't see Hornby doing any more - I may be wrong? There is a rake of five on ebay now - it's an auction starting at £270.00 - as I said not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 "I can't see Hornby doing any more - I may be wrong?" Presumably the tools are still in China, so could be resurected if demand was great enough. If Hornby were to add an LB&SCR large tank engine to their range for example then the twelve wheelers would make a good accompaniment. Hornby has done remarkably well with Pullmans, with the K class both matchboarded and steel panelled, the all steel K class (Queen of Scots), 12 wheelers, Devon Belle Observation cars, K class cars converted to U class specification, and the Brighton Belle. The 1960s Mark 1 Pullmans are made by Bachmann so these have to be the most comprehensive variety and type of carriage available in 4mm scale. Pullmans are after all the luxury end of the market, and made up only a very tiny proportion of the carriage stock on British railways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancing Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hi NLOBThank-you for the additional info. I thought there must have been a BB train pack with 12-wheelers to explain why the addional 3 vehicles were released in R4381, but R2819 was missing from my records. I see that the vehicles in that pack were Kitchen 1st Malaga, Parlour Brake 3rd car 94 (ex-Ansonia) and Parlour 3rd Car 96 (ex-Sylvia), so that makes 12 in total. If Ramsey says 13, which one have I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hi Lancing, If I am right in your opening post you mentioned 9 in total coaches, but infact you correctly listed 10.Plus the 3 in R2819 makes 13.Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I checked through the back editions of the Hornby catalogue and I could only find twelve (12). This obviously includes the "coach sets" R2819 and R4381. I note that in the catalogues the Pullman Observation Coach is shown on the same page as the 12-wheel coaches - has Ramsay's guide included this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Hi, Extract from Ramsey Guide, 9th. Edition.Pullman H Class 12 wheel. Please note, R2819 is Bournemouth Belle, Train Pack. R4381 is Bournemouth Belle Coach Pack.1st. Parlour:-R4384, Monaco.(R2819), Malaga.(R4381), Sunbeam.3rd. Parlour:-R4385, CAR 98.(R2819) Car 96.R4419, Car 294.R4475, Car 97.1st. Kitchen Car:-R4420, Neptune.R4476, Portia.3rd. Kitchen:-(R4381) Car 45.3rd. Brake:-(R2819), Car 94.(R4381), Car 95. made 2009. Bournemouth Belle Headboards fitted.R4477, Car 95. Grey Roof, made 2011-13. No Bournemouth Belle Headboards.Problem could have been only one Car 95 shown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Well that explains the thirteen coaches - although you could never run a thirteen coach rake - with two Car 95's - even if it did have a grey roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke 71000 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 British Railways CWNA 1958 (Extract) PULLMANSBritish Railways had a number of internal documents NOT AVAILABLE to the public. One of these was known as the "CARRIAGE WORKING NOTICES APPENIDIX" (CWNA). It was usually published twice a year inline with the change between the Summer & Winter Timetables. From the June 1958 publication I have extracted the page dealing with the Pullmans based at Stewarts Lane depot on the Southern Region. These Pullmans included those on loan to the Western & Eastern Regions. /media/tinymce_upload/264091654d09236f4c32f2b009167071.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke 71000 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 BR OFFICIAL PULLMAN CAR LISTING FOR June 1958/media/tinymce_upload/3ee4c8bed887216178a5fde10d963edf.jpgThe Duke 71000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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