Top Gun A-4 Skyhawk????

[FAAMAN]

Just saw the Airfix new releases for 2020.

New tool Beaufort, Mk.V Spit and Vulcan, just superb!!

But what's going on with this new Top Gun movie merchandise releases?

Surely Airfix are'nt going to embarrass themselves by re-releasing the old 1958 1/72 tool A-4A kit again as they did with the original Top Gun merchandise releases from the 80's as depicted on the box art (from the original movie) in the new 2020 releases?

Secondly, surely they won't try to fob off their very poor and inacurate 1/72 A-4B kit (from 2012) as an Agressor A-4F 'Super Fox" (which has a completely different nose, intakes, exhausts and access panel details) as used in the movie and indeed by Top Gun at the time when compared to an A-4B Skyhawk in the Airfix kit?

Thirdly, are Airfix really going to re-release their very old 1/72 Tomcat and F-5A as they did in the 80's for the movie?

Both of these kits are far more representitive of the aircraft in Top Gun than either Airfix A-4 kit but they must be getting VERY long in the tooth by now.

I won't hold my breath and wait for an answer from an Airfix rep here as they never seem to be interested in concerns we have.

Regards all 😆

FAA 😎 😎

[Russ1707821018]

The best option for a 1/72 kit of the A-4F (actually the only option) with the big intakes is the Fujimi kit. They did have a specific "Super Fox" release that includes everything needed to model the Top Gun Skyhawks. The current Airfix A-4B only superficially resembles the aircraft in the original movie.

Additionally, the kit of Maverick's F/A-18 Hornet should include a kit of the F/A-18E version. This is a completely different aircraft than the F/A-18A/prototype version that the Airfix kit represents. Seriously, the only reason the E and F versions of the Super Hornet retained the F/A-18 designation was because it was easier to sell the program to Congress as an upgrade of the earlier aircraft rather than the complete redesign it actually was. Sure, the legacy Hornet looks more like a Super Hornet than an F-15 but so what. A Mitsubishi F-2 looks like an F-16, and obviously used the Falcon as the inspiration for its design, but they are not the same aircraft. Please clarify what model kit you are putting in the new Top Gun Hornet kit A00504.

[Kenneth ONeill]

^ Absolutely, except that to my eyes the Mitsubishi F-2 looks more like a SEPECAT Jaguar than it does a "lawn dart".

[Peter s]

Agreed with all of you....

for several years I've been saying that the Beaufort is the obvious next kit after the excellent Blenheim and Beaufighter kits. Add in the relative popularity of Airfix in Australia and Japan and it's an export success too. Equally I've flagged up lack of spitfires in 1/72... Crazy that a British icon like Airfix is so ignoring spits. You need a IX (with round and pointed rudders) and a 1/72 version of the 1/48 XIV next. Whoever approved these (and the vulcan) knows the market and can make sensible choices

The 5 top gun kits are a joke though. I bought the A4 from eBay to pair with another brand's F14 after watching top gun with a few beers in me ☺☺☺. It's a million miles from the new tool B. More flash than kit. Flogging an F18a as a super hornet is a very very bad idea. The only word for it is cynical.

Many of the other releases are the same. I like the dogfight double concept but again when the double is more than the cost of the 2 kits individually it's not a good move. The 2020 releases totally lacked any surprises like the 2019 mig 17 (good kit btw) I was scratching my head that there's a quick build F35b but not a full kit. What was the last contemporary RAF/RN aircraft Airfix did? Tornado F3? Do a few from this century!

[Ratch]

I expect this to be the new tool, and that just the product code has been rekindled.

[Peter s]

I expect this to be the new tool, and that just the product code has been rekindled.

Do you mean the A4-B? I know a few people are very rude about that kit but I like it.... Problem is that it's a very specific early war Vietnam / Argentine version and simply not the version used in movie. The current Airfix isn't even appropriate to hang a couple of bullpups on or do the version John McCain flew. I'm happy to admit it when I'm proved wrong but I think this will be a restamp of the same box I bought on eBay last year.

[Russ1707821018]

^ Absolutely, except that to my eyes the Mitsubishi F-2 looks more like a SEPECAT Jaguar than it does a "lawn dart".

You're thinking of the Mitsubishi F-1. The F-2 was derived from the F-16 but is larger in pretty much all dimensions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-2

[Russ1707821018]

I expect this to be the new tool, and that just the product code has been rekindled.

The only thing is that the listed number of parts, 116, is not consistent with either Airfix kit. The only Skyhawk kit in 1/72 that has close to that number of parts is the Fujimi kit, depending on which sprues are included.

[Ratch]

All the Top Gun products follow the Industry Standard - we have something in the bank that's near enough to cash in on the film buzz. Don't expect accurate models of what's in the film.

[FAAMAN]

I expect this to be the new tool, and that just the product code has been rekindled.

Do you mean the A4-B? I know a few people are very rude about that kit but I like it.... Problem is that it's a very specific early war Vietnam / Argentine version and simply not the version used in movie. The current Airfix isn't even appropriate to hang a couple of bullpups on or do the version John McCain flew. I'm happy to admit it when I'm proved wrong but I think this will be a restamp of the same box I bought on eBay last year.

Peter, the Airfix kit is simply too inaccurate to be even a"B/P/Q" model J-65 powered Skywawk. It's not "rudeness" it's a simple fact. Too much wrong with shapes and basic details that are wrongly represented or completely omitted to be any A-4 let alone, an early A-4.

Somewhere around here (Airfix Forum) I left a link to the ATF and a thread I'm writing on correcting this kit with a mass of reference pics and "why" particular things are wrong.

Also, the kit suuosedly represents a museum example, with mods that did not exist when operating with the USN at the time of it's combat deployments.

John McCain flew a J-52 powered A-4E from Forrestal.

The Airfix A-4B simply cannot be used to represent a J-52 powered A-4 of any version. You are far better off with one of the "fat" Fujimi A-4 kits and fix the rear fuselage width and poor details.

I hope that VMA131 is correct and Airfix's reboxing a Fujimi kit. By the way, the new Hobby Boss A-4E kit in 1/72 has by my count 116 parts, Hmmmm 😆

Although I think Ratch is correct in saying that from a commercial standpoint an A-4 is an A-4, and they'll use what they've got. Just please not the 1958 A-4A that they used for the original Top Gun model kit, THAT would be very embarrassing.

 

Regards all 😆

FAA 😎 😎

[Peter s]

Hi FAAMAN, I'm well aware McCain flew an E, hence my comment about the Airfix kit being unsuited to it. if they'd do an accurate E it would allow so many potential schemes it's not true. I quite like the current new tool as a cheap fun build because it does go together nicely. I guess it was always designed with the Argentine version in mind to pair with the sea harrier.

I'm not a rivet counter with 60s jets and I get £10 of fun from the current new tool.... The top gun one I bought on eBay however was a waste of plastic

. I'm also with Rach in that I've done the new tool B in a few builds that stretched credibility but there is a limit. It looks like the "mavericks F18" is an A not a super hornet. That's unlikely to work out well as a commercial decision

[Peter s]

Btw I checked scalemates. They say the top gun is a rebox of Airfix 1960s D model. Which is the original top gun kit.... My other cynical thought is how much do Miramax get per Airfix kit sold? that "top gun" logo won't come free.... 

 

on a slight tangent I'm not impressed with the dogfight double A4/mig 17 pairing.. The only A4 to down a mig 17 was a C with zuni rockets. Happy to be proven wrong but why do I think the A4 will be a B with 2x 500lb bombs? The real enemy of the mig 17 was the F8 crusader... Not well represented in 1/72 (at least not at A4 price) I've picked up a vintage hasegawa on eBay (decent kit for its age but decals were yellow and cost the same again from hannants) but Airfix could do waaaay better. That's a hint Airfix! I've got another A4b in the stash and enough zuni rockets to refight Vietnam so I might see what I can DIY.

[peebeep]

My other cynical thought is how much do Miramax get per Airfix kit sold? that "top gun" logo won't come free.... 

 

Almost certainly quite a large chunk.

[Ratch]

Btw I checked scalemates. 

Scalemates don't get everything right. I reckon they're guessing. Why would Airfix use an old mould when they replaced the tooling not so long back?

[peebeep]

Scalemates don't get everything right. I reckon they're guessing. Why would Airfix use an old mould when they replaced the tooling not so long back?

 

I concur with this. I'm sceptical that there's any mileage left in the old tooling. I can't see any point in debating it, Airfix might spill the beans or we might have to wait until the kits arrive.

[Kenneth ONeill]

Scalemates don't get everything right. I reckon they're guessing. Why would Airfix use an old mould when they replaced the tooling not so long back?

 

I concur with this. I'm sceptical that there's any mileage left in the old tooling. I can't see any point in debating it, Airfix might spill the beans or we might have to wait until the kits arrive.

Either way, unless it's a licenced use of an Imijuf tool, or a brand new kit (except wings and horizontal tail from the B/P) it's not an accurate E/F.

[Ratch]

licenced use of an Imijuf tool

It ain't gonna happen

[Russ1707821018]

Scalemates don't get everything right. I reckon they're guessing. Why would Airfix use an old mould when they replaced the tooling not so long back?

 

I concur with this. I'm sceptical that there's any mileage left in the old tooling. I can't see any point in debating it, Airfix might spill the beans or we might have to wait until the kits arrive.

Either way, unless it's a licenced use of an Imijuf tool, or a brand new kit (except wings and horizontal tail from the B/P) it's not an accurate E/F.

I think Airfix must have been planning to do the later E/F or M versions when they designed the Skyhawk kit because it has holes in the lower wing for the outboard pylons. These weren't introduced until the A-4E along with the 8,400 lbf thrust Pratt & Whitney J52-P-6A, The early Fs had even more power and the late Fs (Super Foxes) and M's had 11,200 lbf thrust PW J52-P-408s.

[Russ1707821018]

 

I hope that VMA131 is correct and Airfix's reboxing a Fujimi kit. By the way, the new Hobby Boss A-4E kit in 1/72 has by my count 116 parts, Hmmmm 😆

Although I think Ratch is correct in saying that from a commercial standpoint an A-4 is an A-4, and they'll use what they've got. Just please not the 1958 A-4A that they used for the original Top Gun model kit, THAT would be very embarrassing.

 

Regards all 😆

FAA 😎 😎

I wouldn't be upset if Airfix decided to rebox the Hobby Boss A-4E for this. It doesn't have separate LE slats, which are usually seen deployed on the ground as they are airload operated. On the other hand, I would happily make the argument that the agressor aircraft pinned their slats in the up position, as the Blue Angels did, to avoid asymmetric deployment during a critical phase of flight. It would also be an excellent opportunity to acquire one of these kits cheaply.

[Russ1707821018]

Btw I checked scalemates. They say the top gun is a rebox of Airfix 1960s D model. Which is the original top gun kit.... My other cynical thought is how much do Miramax get per Airfix kit sold? that "top gun" logo won't come free.... 

 

on a slight tangent I'm not impressed with the dogfight double A4/mig 17 pairing.. The only A4 to down a mig 17 was a C with zuni rockets. Happy to be proven wrong but why do I think the A4 will be a B with 2x 500lb bombs? The real enemy of the mig 17 was the F8 crusader... Not well represented in 1/72 (at least not at A4 price) I've picked up a vintage hasegawa on eBay (decent kit for its age but decals were yellow and cost the same again from hannants) but Airfix could do waaaay better. That's a hint Airfix! I've got another A4b in the stash and enough zuni rockets to refight Vietnam so I might see what I can DIY.

The Academy 1/72 F-8 Crusader is really good; much better than the old, old Hasegawa kit or the Heller kit.

[Peter s]

Btw I checked scalemates. 

Scalemates don't get everything right. I reckon they're guessing. Why would Airfix use an old mould when they replaced the tooling not so long back?

I can't fault that logic.... the other 3 in the series won't be new tool kits though. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Certainly the Top Gun one I had was badly worn out.

BTW I found an almost identical Testors Top Gun A4 on Ebay (found, I didn't buy). Thats got the E model hump which the real film ones don't...... it was worryingly cheap too.

[Ratch]

the other 3 in the series won't be new tool kits though. I guess we'll have to wait and see. 

We know by the catalogue that they will be the old tools

[Peter s]

Btw can any of you clarify the meaning of "3 weapons pylons" on the B model which increased to 5 on later versions. The word "weapons" as opposed to just "pylons" is ambiguous. 

My take is the Airfix one isn't so wrong that the 2x 500lb bombs outboard of the tanks are nonsense and that this phrase means the tank pylons on the wings are for tanks only and that "3 weapons pylons" means centre line and outer wings for weapons, inner pylons for tanks. the Argentine air force mounted all sorts on all 5 pylons on their Ps which maybe confuses things. The reason I ask is that I'm pondering doing a B in C colours (no worse than a B in F colours) but don't want to do anything too daft. I'm curious how many zuni pods the C that shot down a Mig 17 with zunis would have carried and where..... Hope that makes sense

[Kenneth ONeill]

Well, Zunis were normally fired either single from Sidewinder rails or from LAU-10/A pods which can hold 4 rockets. The 2 outer pylons (making 5 in all) were officially added to the A4-E and later, so a C variant can't have carried more than 2 or 3 pods.

Having said that, the current Airfix tool is only outline accurate as a B, and not even then are all the panels and hatches correct.

[Peter s]

Well, Zunis were normally fired either single from Sidewinder rails or from LAU-10/A pods which can hold 4 rockets. The 2 outer pylons (making 5 in all) were officially added to the A4-E and later, so a C variant can't have carried more than 2 or 3 pods.

Having said that, the current Airfix tool is only outline accurate as a B, and not even then are all the panels and hatches correct.

That was what I was worried about.... I've a million zuni pods so I think I can get away with 2 pods on a ter where the wing tanks go and keep the centreline tank. If the outer pylons are nonsense for a B then in US service the Airfix kit effectively has no weapons! I've got the collection of zunis buying hasegawa weapons backs for the centreline ters and the napalm pods.