Bulleidboy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I have a Hornby Merchant Navy Class with Factory Fitted DCC which came from a split set and from a well known retailer. I have had it for a number of years but it has remained boxed. I have now promoted it to "running", but it creates an "error" message on my Elite as soon as power is switched on and the loco number is programmed in. I have been fiddling with it while typing this question, and have found all is ok if I don't attach the tender. This loco has the two prongs on the loco/tender coupling which rest against a metal plate on the tender when attached. I have tried it with an identical tender and it's fine. I can't see anything out of place. Any quick answers before I start taking it apart. Many thanks. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Have you tried the 'faulty' tender on another loco to see if the fault moves to the other loco with the tender. If it does something in the tender is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 It is quite possible the loco and tender are cross wired. Use a meter to check left loco wheels are continuous with left tender wheels and vice versa. This may be of help with the springy prong thingy. /media/tinymce_upload/dca35d17dd057b1152455337f34ec717.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 Thanks Brian and Rob - I'll check "original" tender on another loco and the wiring. I've checked another tender on the loco and it's fine. It's frustrating because, with two M/N + tenders upside down they look identical.I'll get there. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Standard fault finding practice. If you have for instance two identical printers but one won't work, swap the leads over. If the fault stays on the same printer it is faulty, if it moves to the other printer the lead or something the lead is attached to at the other end is faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 I have now tried the possible "faulty" tender on another loco and it works fine. It has to be a "breakdown" in the insulation on the coupling. I only get the error message when loco and tender are coupled - break the coupling and no error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 If one tender works on both locos and the other only on one the coupling has to be OK otherwise neither tender would work on the new loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 If one tender works on both locos and the other only on one the coupling has to be OK otherwise neither tender would work on the new loco. That is true, but why would the "faulty" tender be ok on another loco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Ensure that springy prong connector is aligned right as they are no end of trouble.The tender bit is a simple post and plate per my diagram. Its the loco bit that gets bent out of shape.I stripped some of mine back to a bare drawbar and installed a plug and socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 It's strange that the faulty tender works on one loco but another works on both locos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Can you please post a picture of the offending loco and the two tenders showing the respective parts in close up, then maybe we can see what the problem is without dancing round our handbags guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 The tender at the end of the loco chassis coupling is the one that throws up "error" when attached - the other tender does not. https://flic.kr/p/2im73bh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creilly81 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just a thought. The tender that you tried the loco with, was it from an identical model, that was DCC ready or fitted?The only reason i ask is because in the past i've tried to use a tender from a DCC powered loco with a loco that was analogue, but hardwired. I had exactly the same issue.If all else fails, take the top off the tender that shorts when connected to the loco, un-screw the weight and swap the soldered wires around that are connected to the tender pick up terminals.You may find this cures your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 The OP has already been requested to perform a continuity check of loco to tender wheels side per side but never responded if he had or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 Sorry for the delay - I have not been able to check the internal wiring on the tender yet - other things to do. Will try and get it done today and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 If the tender wiring is wrong it wouldn't work on the other loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 If the tender wiring is wrong it wouldn't work on the other loco. True, I think there is a breakdown in the insulation around the "prongy" contacts on the tender/loco coupling. I'll get the meter out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Its a bit out of focus but this wire looks as if it may be broken inside the insulation, but why that would create a short I dont know Unless there is a strand touching the tender post/plate. Also either side of the left hand side of the red ring there appear to be copper patches which may be bare wires./media/tinymce_upload/5a62c163285648f82f98d60060c0f4a6.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creilly81 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 If the tender wiring is wrong it wouldn't work on the other loco. It would if the other loco differs from this one in terms of whether or not it was DC or DCC.I presume in this case though, both locos are identical in that respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Apologies if this proves to be a red herring but I seem to remember a problem occurring with rebuilt Bulleid locos a number of years ago when the polarity of the wiring was reversed such that the loco could only be run with the tender it was originally released with. If this loco has been paired with the wrong tender, there could be an immediate short-circuit when the two are coupled. What I can't recall is whether it affected Merchant Navies or Battle of Britains/West Countries.GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 That's interesting GS - I will check it out. The tender is not the one that the loco came with, but I do have the original boxed away. I will check it out and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Barry I wish you had mentioned before that it wasn't the original tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 So do I! Anyway give that man a prize - fitted the original tender and everything is fine. So now have to take the replacement tender apart and do a bit of soldering. This was a DCC Fitted M/N Clan Line - probably from a set - bought as new - it is stamped on the bottom of the loco "DCC Fitted" and fitted, as are most Clan Line models with a 6000gallon tender. As the loco is now 35001 Channel Packet, I wanted a 5100gallon tender, which the loco ran with from rebuild until about 1961/2. Picked up a mint condition one on ebay - and then the "error" problem began. I'm interested to know why the wiring was reversed. Thankfully a frustrating problem now sorted. Thanks everyone, especially GS for your assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 If you had taken note of the advice to do a con check loco to tender side to side then you would have picked this up last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Perhaps he had more important things on his mind. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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