Railmaster - Point Control

[Mark66]

Hi All,

Help and advise please... (Sorry if this has been asked before, I've looked everywhere and cant see to find an answer).

I have laid all the track and points on the layout and now starting to wire it all up. I've installed and wired up two points so far an testing them as I go (Addressed as 75 and 76). Currently controled by a Hornby Select Controller, which all works fine!

I've recently purchased a Hornby e-link and Railmaster to control the layout, which I've tested on the trains which all work fine, however I'm getting nowhere with the point motors. 

I'm using the Gaugemaster GMC-PMD Seep Classic Solenoid Point Mottor DCC-Fitted. On Railmaster, I have designed the layout and positioned the point buttons correctly and changed them to the same addresses (75 and 76) which works on the Select Controller. I then go to change the point on the operating screen on Railmaster and nothing happens. 

I've checked through the manual and across the web and can seem to find what i'm doing wrong....

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Many Thanks,

Mark

 

[Chrissaf]

I have designed the layout and positioned the point buttons correctly and changed them to the same addresses (75 and 76) which works on the Select Controller. I then go to change the point on the operating screen on RailMaster and nothing happens.

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Rather than expend reams of text asking questions and getting you to try and describe exactly what you have done or not done. The easiest way to assess your issue is for you to post some RailMaster screen shots so that I (we) can see exactly what you have configured.

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In your track plan editing screen, right click the point configured as address 75 that is not working so that the configuration box opens. Screen capture an image of the box and post the image back here. The screen I am interested in looks similar to the example one below:

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/media/tinymce_upload/74c2b10279c4cc1c05a7b484f3443df6.jpg

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Also, post a screen of your whole track plan. I need to see how your points are being displayed on screen. The image below is an example of just a section of a typical plan. I need to see an image that is similar to the one below, but one that contains all of your configured points [presumably this is currently only two points, namely points 75 & 76].

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/media/tinymce_upload/d8e2cccbd95494880b990ac5e435a5ad.jpg

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Do this for me and I can probably then tell you what needs to be done to resolve your issue:

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See my TIPs page regarding 'How to post an Image'.....TIP 8

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Note: Images posted today may not appear before Mon / Tue next week, so if you prefer not to wait, post a link to an image posting website of your choice, where your images have been uploaded and can be viewed.

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I'm using the Gaugemaster GMC-PMD Seep Classic Solenoid Point Mottor DCC-Fitted.

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Do you mean the GMC-PM10D ?

[Mark66]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I will take some screenshots this evening and will post on here... 

 

Given that I'm very new to all this, I wouldn't be surprised I've done something wrong. Hence asking for some experienced advice from people who have been there and got the T-shirt...

 

Also, yes, should have read GMC-PM10D. (As Railmaster does not appear to give this point motor as an option I have selected another single port point motor decoder, I will include it screenshot). 

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Mark66]

Evening,

 

Please see link below to the screenshots.

Screenshots

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Chrissaf]

OK Mark,

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In essence those screen shots look OK. The only thing I would change is in the decoder pull down box I would lose the Cobalt iP decoder and select the Hornby R8247 decoder instead.

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The fact that the R8247 is a quad decoder and your PM10D is a single unit decoder is somewhat immaterial. Given that your Select can operate your PM10D OK, then that indicates that the PM10D is happy with Hornby's implementation of the DCC Accessory Decoder packet format protocol. Therefore it should be equally happy with the eLink & RM combination using the R8247 data packet format. This is what the Select is using by default anyway, as the Select does not give any configurable options for decoder brand or type.

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So try the R8247 decoder choice in the pull down box and test again.

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To be fair, it should have been also OK in theory with the Cobalt implementation you configured as well, because a DCC Accessory Packet used by ANY accessory decoder should be compliant with the NMRA DCC S9 standard for data packet format.

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How physically? are the PM10D point motors connected to the TRACK A&B output of the eLink controller. I do hope that you have not got the PM10D point motors physically connected to the AUX or PROG A&B output of the eLink. The PM10D point motors need to be connected to the TRACK A&B output, just like they were when you were using the Select.

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If the PM10D point motors are physically connected correctly to the eLink TRACK A&B output and choosing the R8247 decoder doesn't fix the issue, then keep the R8247 as the chosen decoder in the 'pull down' selection box, and re-configure the two PM10Ds, this time sending the point operate command from RailMaster rather than your Select.

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In other words. Put the PM10D associated with the 75 DCC address in 'learning mode' by throwing the switch on the motor into the 'Set' position. Then with RailMaster displaying the normal track plan screen (i.e you can see the blue point lines). Operate the RED button on the track plan point configured with the 75 address. Now put the PM10D point motor switch back into the 'Run' position. Now test the point motor operation using both the Red and the Green point operating buttons. If the 75 point now works, repeat the process for the 76 point.

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If still no success. Give me a screen shot of your 'System Settings' screen as well as a screen shot of the text contents of your "railmaster.ini' file located in your Railmaster program folder.

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Hint: You can display the contents of the file by clicking the blueish COG icon located in the bottom left corner of the RM Help screen.

[RDS]

Presumably you are disconnecting the Select completely before using the elink and RailMaster.

[Fishmanoz]

RDS, given he reports his trains are working fine, he cannot have both controllers connected.

[RDS]

I agree Fishy and I am almost 100% sure that would be the case but just on the odd chance because he says .... which works on the Select Controller. I then go to change the point on the operating screen on Railmaster and nothing happens. 

 

Not, but when I disconnect the Select and go back to elink and RailMaster nothing happens.  Clutching at straws I know.

[Mark66]

Solved... Working now! Thanks for the help trying to work this one out!

 

I changed the port to the Hornby decoder in the drop down lost, but unfortunately this didn’t work...

 

As an experiment, I then switched the Gaugemaster decoder on the point to ’Set’ / Program, clicked on the red/green point control on Railmaster. Then moved the switch back to ‘Set-Run’, then clicked the red/green point control on Railmaster and it worked!

 

Although I had programmed the points with the select controller before and they worked, the e-link doesn’t seem to read the same settings.

 

 

Only issue is that it does appear to have stopped the points working on the select controller, which I’m not to fussed about. 

 

May look at at purchasing an Elite controller and see if that works...

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

[Chrissaf]

As an experiment, I then switched the Gaugemaster..................

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Which if you read my last reply again, is what I suggested you did in the latter part of my reply.

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Now that it is working this is more out of curiosity. The result of this action request might explain why there is a difference between your Select and eLink/RailMaster operationally.

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When you power up the Select (it does not need to be connected to anything for this) what is the first number to appear briefly on screen. Three numbers will appear sequentially XX followed by 30 followed by 03.

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It is the XX number I am interested......if it is between 10 and 13 then this would be a very early firmware on the Select and could account for your operational observations.

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The very early Select firmware was not 100% compliant with the NMRA S9 DCC packet format standard. The PM10D when set up with the Select, would have read and memorised the packet format from the Select and then responded to the same packet format from then on.

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Then you changed over to RailMaster / eLink which will be using a 100% compliant packet format to send the point operate command. Thus the PM10D did not understand it, because it had learnt the Select version of the DCC data packet. By using the Set/Run process with RailMaster, the PM10D will re-learn the compliant packet format that RailMaster is sending, thus the PM10D starts working with RM but now stops working with the Select.

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There have been reports before relating to early firmware Selects, where decoder operation that had been initially configured on the Select wouldn't transfer seamlessly to other replacement controllers.

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The Select can be firmware upgraded by Hornby to the latest 1.6 version for £15 ....contact Hornby Customer Services to arrange and get a 'returns number'. The 1.6 version will allow you to use the Select to write to CVs as well as being compliant with the standard. As others have already said, you must never connect the Select and the eLink to the same layout at the same time.

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Let us know what the XX number is on the Select to see if the theory I have outlined above is correct.

[96RAF]

You do not appear to be grasping the basic principles involved here Mark.

 

The set Learn, select point, return to Run method was suggested previously.

 

Swapping between control methods will cause problems in addressing as the device takes its address from the controller and unless the same address is set on both controllers they will only work from the last addressing method Select or RM.

 

Buying an Elite will likely add to your grief unless you want to stick with RM as the software can be used in a two controller situation but only if you have a separate ‘bus’ for the track and another for the points.

[St1ngr4y]

I was going to suggest to Mark, that he should create two new sets of red/green point buttons on his layout, configuring them as R8247 decoders and addresses 72 and 73. I have a feeling that these would have operated his points 75/76 programmed by his Select. This would further prove Chris's theory.

 

Ray

[Mark66]

Hi Chris, 

 

Sorry, I was working to your suggestion in your post. When I mentioned “As an experiment” I was mearly referring to a point motor I hadn’t installed on the layout yet i was using as a test to see if this would work. Apologies it wasn’t clear...

 

I will check the controller verson later today and let you know. The Select Controller was out of an old Hornby GWR Western Pullman set, so would not be suprised if the version is out of date as you suggest.

 

I very much appreciate your help, however the patronising under tone on some of the posts I find slightly unnessesary. From a under 30 year old and newbie to the Hobby it’s bit off-putting. We all have to start somewhere!

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[St1ngr4y]

Mark,

 

If you haven't re-programmed the points 75/76 yet, could you try my suggestion above?

 

Ray

[Mark66]

Hi Chris,

 

Just powered up the Select Controller and it comes up as 10, then 30. So that might be the issue then. I will look into getting it updated.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Chrissaf]

I very much appreciate your help, however the patronising under tone on some of the posts I find slightly unnecessary.

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Are you by chance mixing my replies up with the ones made by RAF96

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If you do really mean mine, I am at a loss to see which lines of text you are referring to. My replies have been (in my opinion) of a high standard of politeness. My writing style is direct and to the point and I am passionate about helping others, this can sometimes come over as brash. Your comment makes me feel as if I have been stabbed in the back.

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I'm sure that one line or two when taken out of context, might be considered patronising in isolation but not necessarily when read in the context of the replies overall. My replies have done everything I can to resolve your issue. Successfully it would seem.

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You obviously do not fall into this category, but there are many instances where solutions to problems have been given, but the 'question asker' seems to have missed the significance of the written text and it has sometimes taken 2 or 3 reply attempts to get the point across in a form the 'question asker' understands. Everyone has different levels of understanding and sometimes the contributors have to assume a minimum base level when pitching their replies. Some 'question askers' do make the most simplest of mistakes such as wiring things up to the wrong controller ports etc. These type of questions do sometimes need to be asked as we do not have the benefit of looking over the 'question asker's' shoulder and see what has been done. These type of comments can seem patronising to those who have a more advanced understanding of the topic. But the contributors have to assume the lowest common denominator when writing their replies.

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EDIT: Firmware 10 is version 1.0 firmware....the very first initial release of the Select product. So there is a reasonable certainty that is why you have observed the operational difficulties transferring to RailMaster/eLink.

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If you want to see what additional new functionality version 1.6 firmware will provide, have a read of both the Select 1.5 main manual and the 1.6 addendum manual PDFs downloadable from the link below. Everything in 1.6 will also include all the 1.5 features such as full support for TTS decoders etc. For example the full F0 to F28 range of function control, there are not many 'starter' DCC controllers out there from other brands that can do that. These things you can't do with Select 1.0 firmware.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/index/cat/12/

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[Mark66]

Thanks Chris,

To be fair, you edited and removed the first paragraph of your original post. But I agree comments like “you do not appear to be grasping the basic principles” isn’t helpful.

 

Agree what you say about simplifying instructions to the basic user like me, as if I knew what I was doing I wouldn’t have asked the original question.  😀

I fully appreciate your help, it was just a feeling and observation I wanted to point out. Let’s leave it there.

 

I will let you you know how I get on...

 

Thanks

[Chrissaf]

Just one last comment.

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What one writes in haste one regrets in leisure. The initial (removed) sentence you referred to in my very first original reply, I removed after re-reading my original reply in 'reflection mode'. At the time I wrote it initially, it seemed OK, but after re-reading it again later, I decided to remove it for the reason you outlined. The main thing to appreciate and you have already acknowledged, (given that it was edited before any additional posts were added) was that it was removed prior to any prompting from later posts.

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Just to further advise, I have a wealth of experience (and have previous forum posting history on this) with regard the intricacies of using RailMaster and setting up locos and accessories. So as you develop your RailMaster controlled layout, I'm sure that you will have further 'How Do I' questions. So do please post them on the forum and I will assist where I can. If your RM questions relate to using RM's 'programming the layout' features, then forum member "St1ngr4y" is our resident expert covering that area of RM operation.

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PS - I see on your layout plan you have a turntable. Assuming it is a Hornby R070 TT, then these existing threads will be of interest to you.

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R070 Turn Table DCC Modification

http://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/r070-hornby-turn-table-to-dcc-including-images/?p=1

 

R070 Setting Up configuration in RailMaster

http://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/r070-turntable-configuration-in-railmaster/?p=1

 

R070 DCC Conversion – my version with a detailed drawing

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/27722/?p=2

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[96RAF]

It was my post that came across as patronising Chris, but we can only comment on the information presented and that was my personal opinion of the situation.

It was not meant to be patronising but if that is Mark's view then he is entitled to it as I am entitled to mine.

[Fishmanoz]

I think if I remember correctly, there is a point numbering issue between early Select firmware and RM. Something about an offset in the numbering due to starting at 60 not 61?

[96RAF]

Correct Fishy and if we had known the OPs Select revision state early on it would have helped shorten the investigation.

The point numbering was adjusted from 60 to 61 to accord with NMRA Group numbering practice as below...

Version 1.0 - Initial release. Point and accessory addresses start at 60 in order to use all groups of four up to last address 99. Able to control functions 0-4.

 

Version 1.1 - Point and accessory addresses now start at 61 through 99 to accord with NMRA addressing groups. Users upgrading from v1.0 should readdress all their points and accessory addresses to the new system. Able to control functions 0-8. Able to program on the main (POM).

 

......

 

There is also (slightly off topic) the x3 offset between Elite Classic and Standard modes that caters for use of the Select at any revision as walkabout with an Elite or when Elite is used with RM.

[St1ngr4y]

 

There is also (slightly off topic) the x3 offset between Elite Classic and Standard modes that caters for use of the Select at any revision as walkabout with an Elite or when Elite is used with RM.

 

... which was why I suggested, in an  earlier post, that Mark should see if he could get points 75/76 working by adding two new points addressed as 72/73. The bottom line is that anyone who owns an  Elite using Standard mode and/or Railmaster+eLink have been unaware that every accessory decoder which they have programmed, whether it is an R8247 PAD, an ADSn accessory decoder, or a TrainTech signal, has been given an address 3 greater than they requested. So point decoder 90, for example, will have in its memory an address of 93. However, this doesn't really matter, as long as the user continues to use these Hornby DCC Controllers, and Hornby don't change the firmware to try to correct all of this. But, if the user decides to change their Controller to non-Hornby, then they will have to add 3 to each accessory decoder address for them to continue to operate as before.

 

Ray

[Mark66]

Hi Ray,

 

Just tested out your suggestion and yes the points work when using a port number 3 less than the one programmed on the select. 

Thanks,

Mark

[St1ngr4y]

Ok Mark - thanks for the feedback.

 

Ray